Silk Road 2.0 goes down

“This hidden site has been seized”

We are going to need a heavily decentralized solution, so that if a relatively small number of nodes get shut down or taken over by law enforcement, the network continues to function correctly, and, because no single node is central, no single node has traffic patterns that make it stand out.

The Tor hidden site system will always fail if a hidden site generates too much traffic for too long. We need a non Tor solution for publishing and curating reputations and performing transactions.

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38 Responses to “Silk Road 2.0 goes down”

  1. Nyan Sandwich says:

    I was actually just thinking the same thing. There was a lot of lulz on the internet until all the bases for the fun illegal stuff got v&.

    Someone needs to build some heavily robust NSA-proof web-like medium. Everything else follows from the ability to create totally free spaces.

    I wonder what the implications of such a space would be. I wonder if it world be good.

    Ideally, it’s a darknet accessible through regular web browsers with no additional installed software. Trouble is how to do this without getting pwned by mitm attacks.

    For example, an open source web app that could be installed anywhere that linked you into a darknet would be cool. User just goes to https://my-darknet-proxy.ch/my/darknet/page, and then https://other-dnet-proxy.cc/my/darknet/page would point the same place. This way the surface-facing web properties are fungible and commodity, and easy to replace when v&.

    Problem is how to prevent https://darknet-honeypot.gov from getting your plaintext. Client side encryption doesn’t work because then you get secure_encryption.gov.js.

    Alternatively, could use a relatively simple browser extension for client side encryption. Icky, but might be trustable.

    That’s just the interface. For the guts, we ideally want to be able to build arbitrary web apps in the darknet. Problem is then they have to go on a real server somewhere, which probably creates a vulnerability.

    Might shrink the scope to just silkroad-type stuff, but then you leave a lot of stuff on the table.

    More thought is needed.

    • Alrenous says:

      >heavily robust NSA-proof web-like medium

      Heard of meshnet?

      >Problem is then they have to go on a real server somewhere, which probably creates a vulnerability.

      Usability is a problem. Nobody talks about the fact that a bitcoin wallet is multiple gigabytes, and that matters.
      Similarly you could appropriate the onion protocol, but it’s ”slow”. Milliseconds are relevant to users.
      Amusingly I just realized you could use the bitcoin wallet to mitigate the onion protocol. Meshnet nodes cache the webpages they serve, both reducing overall traffic and obscuring the authors, at the cost of disk space. Not sure that would help much, but it’s a start.
      Obligatory reminder: Urbit.

    • peppermint says:

      “fun stuff”

      like child porn and selling drugs. No thanks.

      • Nyan Sandwich says:

        ra/i/ds, hax, warez, drugs, etc. Look how much trouble ED and TPB have staying up.

        Free ability to access drugs is good because the health system is way too broken to manage that itself. There are things I would like to buy online that would improve my life in a non-degenerate way that I can’t because these things keep getting shut down. Also, being able to buy drugs online safely takes the major income of street gangs away. Further, to the extent that drugs cause problems, they are only the proximate cause. The root cause is degeneracy. Degeneracy will find a way.

        Did you know that feminists use child porn as a way to justify moral-commissar takover of all thought? Once you allow forbidden thought, you allow a moral commissar bureaucracy. Once you allow a moral commissar bureaucracy, you allow SJWs to enter and redirect that bureaucracy to shut down their political enemies (ie us).

        Therefor I no longer care about child porn. The amount of harm actually done is minuscule compared to the amount of shit we have to put up with to stop it. If you support such measures against child porn, you probably work for the Jews, so to speak.

        • peppermint says:

          If you knew anyone who has been addicted or has been abused as a child, then you wouldn’t have such an edgy attitude about “muh freedums”. The Jews pushed adult porn on everyone 50 years ago by saying that once you allow a moral commissar bureaucracy, tl;dr. Well, that and QQing about their holy hoax.

          • Red says:

            There’s only 2 days ways to successfully combat drugs: Kill every addict wither high or low. Or allow natures to take it’s course and let the addicts drug themselves to death. Segregating the addicts is a wise course with this second option.

            The American and now world wide war on drugs was started as a way of hitting real criminals, creators of disorder, and shitheads with proxy crime charges. It was never intended to stop addiction nor does it have any effect on the addiction rate. Today the war on drugs has been perverted into a system of enriching and corrupting politicians, cops, judges, social workers and prosecutors. It no longer really benefits the public.

          • peppermint says:

            Restricting people from buying drugs works out okay for quite a few people. It doesn’t save everyone, but Jesus didn’t come with the intention of saving everyone either.

          • Red says:

            >Restricting people from buying drugs works out okay for quite a few people. It doesn’t save everyone, but Jesus didn’t come with the intention of saving everyone either.

            That’s ludicrous. The harm caused by bad cuts of drugs alone(most OD cases are from bad cuts) alone wipes out any befit that comes from increasing the price of drugs through prohibition. And that’s not counting the shootings, the break ins, the corruption of the justice system, and general disorder it causes. Anyone can get drugs, all prohibition does is raise the price and make really shitty people rich.

          • peppermint says:

            Remember when the harm caused by keeping abortion in back alleys was worse than the harm of abortion, and the harm caused by making gamblers do it in seedy bars where the bookies write on flashpaper was worse than the harm of gambling?

            I don’t want to live in a culture where drugs are accepted. And we all know how quickly legalization turns into acceptance. Abortion and gambling are things that an individual can not do.

            If drugs are accepted, under our current system of employment, people who don’t want to do drugs will lose their jobs. Somehow, someone managed to convince people that doing work for pay “at will” is better than slavery. Then the government had a choice, to let people die if they got disabled, or to pay social security disability. The government also needs to impose things on the labor contract, like banning drug use, that would be done by the slave owner in order to protect the long term value of his investment.

            • jim says:

              Consider Trayvon Martin. His abuse of over the counter drugs caused brain damage, resulting outbursts of irrational violence. But should we therefore ban Robitussin for everyone? No, we should only ban it for blacks.

              The kind of people who buy drugs on the Silk Road are not the kind of people who cause problems by their drug consumption. Superior people need freedom. Inferior people need supervision.

              Both parts of anarcho tyranny need correction. Superior people need to be less subject to authority, inferior people more subject to authority.

              Equality leads to the nanny state, as laws are passed to deal with bad behavior by inferior people, and then these laws are enforced on superior people, and not enforced on inferior people.

          • B says:

            HL Mencken was a Jew?

            The people who fought against the Comstock Laws were Jews, too?

            What about the flourishing of pornography and prostitution during the 1860s, that was also us? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_in_the_American_Civil_War

            As for the Holocaust, Hitler was advocating gassing masses of Jews in Mein Kampf. Did the Jews put him up to that? Or was he just, you know, joking? Are all my old friends and relatives lying to me about what happened to the ones who couldn’t get away from the Western areas of the USSR? Was Babi Yar just a big put-on? Where did all those Jews from Lithuania, Hungary and Poland disappear to after the war?

            Maybe there’s something that doesn’t add up here?

            • jim says:

              Obviously the genocide of the Jews happened, and arguing with people who deny it is like arguing with people who claim that two towers were brought down by explosives. They sound like they are arguing logically and seemingly have a pile of evidence, but when you point out that one item of evidence does not add up, their response reveals that they always knew it did not add up and did not care.

              However Hitler was not advocating gassing masses of Jews in Mein Kampf. Rather, he was advocating the eradication of the French. Mein Kampf seems to imply yet another program to kick the Jews out from one exile to the next.

              French, however, would be conquered, then enslaved, then eradicated by high death rates under slavery and inability to reproduce under slavery. Given what was written in Mein Kampf, Jews should not have been terribly worried, but French should have fought to the last man.

              I attribute the genocide against the Jews to the fact that all government programs need to perpetuate themselves, thus have a tendency to become ever more extreme. The anti Jewish program had more time accumulate comfortable jobs and an entrenched bureaucracy than the anti French program.

              Unfortunately, though it is easy to eliminate an unwanted race, it is much harder to eliminate an unwanted government agency.

              Let us reflect on what has happened with the Environmental Protection Agencand sulfur dioxide.

              It used to be the case that sulfur dioxide levels were often so high as to cause visible smog, make the air smell bad, and cause many people respiratory distress.

              The EPA made such levels illegal, and forced various activities that emitted sulfur dioxide to shut down or clean up their act, until the air reached acceptable levels.

              And then the EPA laid off staff and sat back maintaining a minimal presence monitoring sulfur dioxide levels :-/) Ha hah. Just kidding.

              What actually happened of course is that the EPA reduced the maximum allowable sulfur dioxide levels, and sent out bureaucrats in moon suits to bother people until the new even lower levels were achieved.

              Then the EPA reduced the maximum allowable sulfur dioxide levels even further and sent out bureaucrats in moon suits to bother people until the new even lower levels were achieved.

              And then …

              Allowable levels are now about a thousandth of the noticeable levels, and still being reduced further every year or so.

              Pretty soon we will have zero tolerance for sulfur dioxide. Then, if a single molecule of sulfur dioxide is suspected any where in California, an army of bureaucrats in moon suits, with authority to shoot suspected potential enemies of the environment on sight, will go forth to hunt down that molecule.

          • B says:

            >However Hitler was not advocating gassing masses of Jews in Mein Kampf. Rather, he was advocating the eradication of the French. Mein Kampf seems to imply yet another program to kick the Jews out from one exile to the next.

            I just read MK last week. In there, he says, “if we’d gassed 12,500 Jews before WW1, it would have saved the millions of Germans who lost their lives in the war.” Every other page he’s talking about the infection, the plague of the Jews, our innate evil which causes us to destroy and subvert every other nation with Marxism so that we can build our “Jewish World Empire,” and of course the necessity for brutal measures to deal with us. Naturally, if when he was out of power he was calling to kill 12,500 of us, once he got into power, it turned out that murdering the rest of us as well made a lot of sense-it didn’t cost very much and saved food for the German nation. Plus, it was one thing that was easy to accomplish in a war which was going poorly.

            As for France, he says, roughly, the following. Germany must expand to the East, because the current borders are indefensible, and furthermore, don’t allow Germany to meet the nutritional needs of its population, forcing it to be an industrial nation reliant on exports. However, Germany’s enemies in France will not let it get too strong, so have to attack France first. Nothing in there about exterminating the French that I remember, but I can’t say I went through all 500 pages with a microscope-the man has a horrible writing style.

            • jim says:

              Like anti semites, you are Jew obsessed, although of course that is sane for you, demented for them.

              In Mein Kampf Hitler complains that there have been many, many wars between France and Germany, and nothing is ever permanently settled. He proposes to make sure that this time, victory settles matters permanently. A final solution to the France problem, but not a final solution to the Jewish problem.

          • Just sayin' says:

            >>Unfortunately, though it is easy to eliminate an unwanted race

            It’s apparently not THAT easy to eliminate a certain unwanted race.

          • peppermint says:

            Yeah, that’s right, six million Jews were gassed with diesel fumes and/or lice poison, in wooden shower rooms, thereafter they were melted down for soap / skinned for lampshades / burned so thoroughly there was no ash left behind. Also, Elie Wiesel was so brain-damaged from the poison gas he survived that he couldn’t remember if his concentration camp was liberated by the Americans or by the Russians.

            The Jewish role in pushing porn, for the latter half of the last century, is obvious. Of special note is the way Jewish academics pushed sexual license on Germany itself, citing their holy hoax to demand Lena Dunham style child abuse, and the first sex scenes to make it into non-X-rated movies, and to make it into prime time. These sex scenes were attached to movies about to the holy hoax, so when decent people complained, they were told that they should be more offended about the holy hoax than about the sex scenes. And actually, they should be.

            If your salience horizon is the last hundred years and Northern Europe, the Jews are everywhere. If your salience horizon is the last five hundred years and all of Western civilization, what happened was the Enlightenment. If your salience horizon is ten thousand years of the human species, it’s the socialist phenomenon.

            Anyway, yes, I support legalization of drugs, provided, the government gets of of the slavery business.

            • jim says:

              If your salience horizon is the last hundred years and Northern Europe, the Jews are everywhere. If your salience horizon is the last five hundred years and all of Western civilization, what happened was the Enlightenment.

              Desegregation was Jewish, but those Jews were conversos who were being holier than those that brought us the civil war. Converts tend to be holier. Their descendants dissolve into the group to which they are converted. Fixing the Jewish problem did not bring Hitler victory in World War II. Instead, it led to the world’s greatest scientists building the bomb for the US.

              It is erroneous to blame Jews for elite disloyalty. Leftism is in large part an alliance with far against near. The elite was disloyal in 1800. Jews are no more responsible for elite treason than blacks. If the Jews run Hollywood and the blacks run Detroit, it is because some Anglo Saxons decided to use them to destroy other Anglo Saxons.

              Indeed, that has been the Jewish role since the beginning of their exile. A powerful group within the nation uses Jews against their enemies within the nation, because, lacking local roots, not being part of the nation, Jews are disposable. This Jewish role is a symptom of elite treason, not a cause.

          • B says:

            Nobody is claiming that most of the Jews who died in the Holocaust were gassed, you fucking idiot. Most were executed by einsatzgruppen or starved to death in ghettos without ever seeing a concentration camp. Most of the Jews of Lithuania, for instance. How do you think they went from 210K to 12K in 5 years?

          • B says:

            >Like anti semites, you are Jew obsessed

            I’m not a universalist, which is the only alternative.

            >In Mein Kampf Hitler complains that there have been many, many wars between France and Germany, and nothing is ever permanently settled.

            In the list of things Hitler complains about in Mein Kampf, France comes far, far after the Jews/Marxists, the Austrohungarian Empire, the Slavs and the moderate right-wing Germans. The Jews are mentioned about every three pages, in tones of absolute hatred and vitriol. The French get mentioned towards the end. And indeed we see that when it came down to it, the Poles, Belorussians and Russians were treated much, much worse than the French, but better than the Jews.

            • jim says:

              Yes, Hitler mostly pissed with Jews.

              But when he tells us his plan, it is to fight World War I all over again, but do it right this time. If you read Mein Kampf as an election manifesto and program for government, Jews are considerably less prominent than if you read it as an indicator of what sort of things twisted Hitler’s knickers.

          • peppermint says:

            so? concentration camp gassing *is* the holy hoax. Take that away and it becomes just some more genocide in the middle of a colossal war, and makes it much harder to convince people to give the (hoax) “Diary of Anne Frank” to teenagers.

            • jim says:

              The Germans engaged in industrial scale mass production of murder. That is no hoax. Arguments about how many Jews were killed using which industrial scale method are irrelevant details.

          • Just sayin' says:

            If those details are so irrelevant, how come you go to jail for questioning them?

        • Red says:

          >Most of the Jews of Lithuania, for instance. How do you think they went from 210K to 12K in 5 years.

          Based on what happened in Hungary and other parts of eastern Europe I’d say the neighbors they’d screwed over for ages killed them or handed them over to the German army as communist partisans.

          • peppermint says:

            2 million Germans were killed during the expulsions from Communist-occupied Eastern Europe. The reason we get titties on prime time during a historical fiction about a historical fiction is Auschwitz.

            Due to the Jewish-led lie intellectual movement of race doesn’t exist ism and the Jewish-led ongoing genocide of the peoples of Europe, no one cares about genocide as genocide. But people still care about the four million or maybe one and a half million bars of soap or maybe corpses disintegrated by a blast of plasma from the Spear of Destiny at Auschwitz.

            Auschwitz is the holy hoax. Take it away and the lollercaust is a footnote to a war that saw hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians vaporized and hundreds of thousands of German civilians firebombed.

            • jim says:

              It is evident that the branch of leftism that won World War II (communism) is worse than the branch that lost it (fascism). It is evident that the branch of leftism that won the cold war (progressivism) is better than the branch that lost it (communism)

              But on the whole, I cannot get so terribly excited about the differences.

          • B says:

            The Volksdeutsche who were cruelly deported from Eastern Europe had spent the previous six years happily collaborating with their Reich brothers, forming selbschutz units and exterminating not just Jews but also, for instance, Polish intellectuals, flaunting their privileged status in front of their neighbors, etc. They were treated cruelly, many died, but the intent was not to exterminate them, and they were not exterminated.

            Despite the general shittiness of Stalinism post-1945, they did not exterminate anyone in Eastern Europe (China was Mao’s thing) and after the settling of accounts post-WW2 settled into a fairly run of the mill tyranny. Had the Germans won, they would have of course killed off the Jews, but also probably the Slavs. At the very least, the Poles. So, the losers were worse than the winners in my eyes.

            • jim says:

              And after the settling of accounts post-WW2 settled into a fairly run of the mill tyranny

              Russia had a very large Greek minority, refugees from the Ottoman empire and the young Turks. When the communists attacked Greece, (what the Cathedral and Wikipedia piously calls the Greek Civil War) Stalin, suspecting the internal Greek community of divided loyalties, executed most adult Greek males, and exiled the entire Greek community to Siberia.

              So, while Falangist Spain was indeed a run of the mill tyranny, and not in fact all that tyrannical, Russia was not a run of the mill tyranny.

            • jim says:

              Most of the communist states murdered far more people than Nazi Germany. Most of the fascist states, with the notable exception of Nazi Germany, were pretty good, or not too bad. All of the communist states were horrifyingly evil, though a few of them managed to be not quite as evil as Nazi Germany.

              So, on the face of it, Nazi Germany more likely to settle down and become a normal dictatorship than the communist states.

              Though all left wing states have the propensity to go singular, this tends to be ended by dictatorship – the ideology goes decadent, while the bureaucracy is forced into line.

  2. Dave says:

    Some tech geek wrote a smug article that every time Silk Road n.0 gets taken down, someone else sets up Silk Road (n+1).0. I pointed out that this is small comfort to the former webmasters now facing a lifetime of ass-rape.

    • peppermint says:

      the first Silk Road guy appears to have attempted to go full ancap and hire private security contractors to murder someone.

      Ancaps aren’t all that different from ancoms. I know because I was just at a hipster coffeeshop with both two weeks ago.

      • Red says:

        Someone who was blackmailing him.

      • sdgsg says:

        the murder contract charges were mysteriously dropped. Either they didn’t have enough evidence to prosecute, or they fabricated enough evidence to light a fire under a judge’s butt to raid him, or the realized they would expose some surveillance methods if they exposed their evidence to a court.

  3. secede says:

    store and forward protocols like usenet are far harder to penetrate. store and forward over a mesh network is the direction to look.

    • jim says:

      Each bid or offer flood fills through the network. The problem, however, is analyzing reputation information to prevent a sybil attack.

  4. VXXC says:

    This is clearing up a lot of questions, and will save time in the future.

    Good luck in your Endeavors.

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