Breaking Epstein’s hyoid bone

To break your hyoid bone in a suicide, you need to tie a rope around your neck and jump off something high enough that there is a drop before the rope tightens, and the rope tightens before your feet hit the ground. And there needs to be a decent drop distance before the rope tightens.

An “Introduction to the Work of a Medical Examiner” by John Miletich and Tia Lindstrom says that the “drop distance needed to break a neck depends on the person’s body mass…the hanged person’s neck breaks when his falling body reaches the end of the rope, rapidly tightens the noose, and wrenches his neck sideways, dislocating or snapping his neck’s axis bone.”

For Epstein to suicide, he would have had to tie the bedsheets around his neck, and then lift his feet of the ground, which can be done, but requires a fair bit of crazed determination and will not break your neck bones. Why would Epstein want to kill himself when he still had the goods on powerful people, and had gotten out of trouble before? Even if he wanted to suicide, he would not have sufficient determination or madness to kill himself that way.

A correctly applied chokehold, where you are behind your victim, your right elbow is at the front of the victim’s neck, your right hand is nestled in your left elbow, and your left hand is gripping your right arm, will not break any neck bones either, but if the victim is struggling effectively, and he gets your feet out from under you, you both wind up rolling around on the ground, then you are likely to break his neck bones. You want to lift the victim of the ground, so that your eyes are protected by his back from an eye gouge, and he has no leverage to get you off balance and get his feet behind your feet.

That Epstein was screaming, and that his hyoid bone was broken, indicates his killer was having a hard time of it. A correctly applied chokehold will instantly silence the victim, incapacitate him in ten seconds, render him unconscious in eighteen seconds, and dead in three minutes, leaving no indications that this was not another convenient suicide.

This post was posted under party politics, this being the way that party politics is conducted these days.

40 Responses to “Breaking Epstein’s hyoid bone”

  1. Can you post a pic? I’ve never seen a rear naked choke in which your left hand grips your right forearm.

    Also, a rear naked choke takes more like 4-8 seconds to render the victim unconscious, in my experience.

    • Theshadowedknight says:

      Look up figure four rear naked choke. If you are right handed, then your right arm grips the left bicep, if left handed, then left hand on right bicep.

      • He said forearm, not bicep, and he was talking about gripping with the hand of the non-choking arm.

        “your right elbow is at the front of the victim’s neck, your right hand is nestled in your left elbow, and your left hand is gripping your right forearm”

        The proper technique is to get the left hand behind the victim’s head so that he can’t use both arms to pull your non-choking arm down. Then you are forced to try to choke with only one arm, which is very difficult.

    • jim says:

      I meant to say, and subsequently corrected before seeing your comment, right arm, not right forearm.

      • aidan maconachy says:

        jim – happened on your blog and can’t believe my luck. Been linking also to your roll buddies and finding other gems. Ty so much.

    • Theshadowedknight says:

      The figure four is perhaps less efficient, but I did not find it that way. It allowed a better, more secure hold, and it forced the head deeper in the crook of the arm to place more pressure on the carotid arteries. Certainly better for someone who would be struggling.

  2. Anon says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISgJwAzXAQU
    Murder hanging transforms to fake suicide from the wire.

  3. Reziac says:

    WaPo: “An autopsy found that financier Jeffrey Epstein suffered multiple breaks in his neck bones,..”

    I’m having trouble imagining how a suicide breaks multiple neck bones with what would be a max drop of a couple feet. Hyoid bone during subsequent strangulation struggles, I’ll give ’em that one. Other bones? the human neck is a lot stronger that what’s in the popular imagination. Yeah, he put up a fight.

    • jim says:

      Since his feet were on the ground, if the will to live cut in, as it surely would, there would not be a “subsequent strangulation struggle”. He would just stand up. I would not give them that one.

    • calov says:

      I mean they found him almost dead on the floor of his cell a couple weeks ago and he said someone tried to kill him. This is so obvious that even the AG essentially made a public statement saying he suspects he was murdered which means he is openly acknowledging the Clinton death count which was heretofore a conspiracy theory.

  4. Friendly Fred says:

    Okay, so yet another Clintons-associated murder. But I’m wondering whether this is an essentially trivial mafia-type thing (Clintons part of a political gang that is powerful but not super-powerful in a world-controlling way) or whether this is Illuminati-level stuff. If it’s Illuminati-level stuff, then the Clintons are just servants — they’re too dopey to be running the world.

    (Obviously I don’t mean “Illuminati” literally — just the idea of a network of unknown superspypowered old money patricians or something like that who tried to take down Trump via their FBI/CIA servants because Trump impedes their effort to manage and restrain Progressive lunacy.)

  5. Friendly Fred says:

    An off-topic comment on progress of “leftist singularity” — just saw on Breitbart that lots of Republicans are denouncing Steve King for making the obvious point that everyone alive in the world has ancestors that are the products of what would today be called “rape” and/or “incest”. Trump says “certainly this wasn’t a good statement” — which probably just means that it wasn’t a good move in the chess-game (as Trump doesn’t have thoughts but rather, in the manner of women and darks, regards language as a manipulative tool).

  6. Karl says:

    If you have a choke hold as you describe, I certainly wouldn’t want to lift my opponent of the ground. This is difficult to achieve and will compromise your balance. Much better to simply bend you opponent backwards by pulling (back and slightly down) and rest your forehead on his neck or shoulder area. When your opponent is bent backwards, he is unbalanced, cannot exercise much strenght to break your hold and your eyes are protected so he can’t poke or scratch them.

    If your opponent manages somehow to break your hold although he is bent backwards (very unlikely-if someone gets out of that chokehold, it is at the beginning, before he is bent backwards), he is still unbalanced and will fall as soon as you stop holding him upright.

    There are variants of the chokehold you describe which do also apply force on the neck. Some might break bones while the guy is still standing.

    • Friendly Fred says:

      I would first thrust my chest out toward my opponent, loudly inquiring, “Do you presume to overstep your boundaries, scoundrel?” If it appeared that he DID so presume, I would then give him a brisk shove. As he stumbled backward, I would assume the circa-1890 White-fist-fighting stance, with left foot well-advanced and torso held at a backward angle, while jabbing the air a couple of times. This would probably psychically disable him, and he would then retreat, feeling himself to have been disconcertingly, in some ineffable manner, demoted from “alpha” to “beta” status.

    • If Epstein was yelling and screaming, then it was a sloppy hit. I’ve noticed that rookies in my martial arts dojo have a tendency to lift up their opponents in rear naked chokes, often after they’ve been told to pull back in the way you described.
      They might have dispatched someone large but unskilled to do it. Hence the struggle, screaming and broken bones.
      Just like a Cathedral bugman to assume someone is a good hitman or fighter if they’re a big guy.

  7. Mister Grumpus says:

    The part that breaks my mind is just how on earth this information about the broken hyoid bone even got to us at all.

    If it’s fake news: This is indeed some 55-D chess someone’s playing, and he’s kicking my ass at it.

    If it’s real: How could his Master Ninja Assassins be so incompetent as to allow this information to get loose? (They’re not sending their best.)

    Comments please?

    • jim says:

      That his bones were broken indicates they are not sending their best.

      • The Cominator says:

        It also IMHO rules out the Mossad entirely (not that either of us thought they were likely but this makes it even far less likely), when the Mossad wants to make it look like a suicide or an accident it will plausibly look like a suicide or an accident.

        This kind of extreme bungling of a murder makes me think CIA.

        • Not Tom says:

          This kind of extreme bungling of a murder makes me think CIA.

          Or an actual freelancer. Hiring amateurs instead of professionals won’t get you clean kills, but it might help with plausible deniability. It’s a strategy I could see the Clintons and friends employing directly, not necessarily through the IC. Seth Rich and Vince Foster were also ridiculously amateurish jobs – public places, witnesses, forensic evidence, ludicrous cover-ups, etc.

          There were probably also a number of people associated with Epstein, who were not on the flight manifests, but who might have been spooked enough to call in some amateur, because they don’t know any professionals.

          • The Cominator says:

            The Seth Rich murder was supposed to look like a murder and to rub the face in the Clinton’s enemies that if you f*** with us we’ll fucking kill you and get away with it. Podesta talks about making an example of the leaker in his emails.

            This was genuinely supposed to plausibly be a suicide.

      • Mister Grumpus says:

        They’re also not sending their best if they can’t fix an autopsy.

        That’s the succinct version I failed to write earlier.

        • Steve Johnson says:

          That’s the big piece of evidence here.

          It’s not just that his hyoid bone was broken, it’s that the medical examiner chose to include that in the report and someone leaked the report. Each of those have to be incorporated into the model.

    • Omar is just a Trump card now. says:

      Anyone who had Epstein killed would want:

      1. all other potential witness to be certain that Epstein was murdered and not a suicide

      2. the official verdict of the autopsy to be suicide not murder, as it limits the investigation in many ways. Most importantly, the body can be cremated, or otherwise corrupted (substitution, theft, etc) in the event of a burial.

      From that point of view the leaks are working by helping point (1) without being enough to stop (2).

      • Mister Grumpus says:

        OK now we’re talking.

        So your point is that their goal isn’t just to kill Epstein, but to make sure that everyone sees them getting away with it.

        Right?

        • Omar is just a Trump card now. says:

          Yes. The goal would be to kill Epstein, but once that’s done, anything that makes it more look like an obvious murder (and an obvious coverup of the autopsy, and obvious faking of the ensuing FBI investigations, and politicians obviously colluding to bury the fake investigations, etc) is a feature not a bug as long as it does not lead to a real autopsy and a real investigation with real consequences for the perpetrators. I’m not saying the perps necessarily control every step in this chain, but the way the autopsy has played out is the way they would have done it if they had the luxury of playing 5-d chess instead of improvising as best they can in real time.

          Also, this approach isn’t limited to Epstein.

          There’s been a lot of talk the past year or two of how the left is “not even trying to hide it anymore”. Well, showing who is boss means not only not-trying-to-hide-it, but openly flaunting it and directing everyone’s attention to it. FBI and CIA conspirators against Trump going on book tours and getting TV gigs isn’t for the specific value of their propaganda (they are dull and ineffective as communicators); the very fact that this is happening and not treason trials is a show of primate dominance to intimidate the other chimps into submission.

      • The Cominator says:

        Definitely the goal with Seth Rich, Epstein I’m not quite sure about.

      • info says:

        “1. all other potential witness to be certain that Epstein was murdered and not a suicide”

        A message that they can get to all witnesses the same way they got to Epstein.

  8. Mister Grumpus says:

    What do you make of the fact that Epstein even landed his plane in New Jersey at all?

    I’d guess it meant that someone he trusted lied to him and promised that what ended up happening wouldn’t actually happen. That’s pretty freaky too.

  9. Omar is just a Trump card now. says:

    “Hyoid bone” is the 2019 equivalent of “OCONUS lures”. A suddenly relevant bit of arcana that in two words makes it obvious that an extremely consequential conspiracy theory has been a conspiracy fact all along.

    Between Epstein and the FBI/Special Counsel fiascoes the average MSM believers have had at least two humiliating challenges to their faith crop up in the midst of what were supposed to be seamless show trials. Like a giant flock of diarrheal birds soiling a May Day parade, or parading soldiers suddenly expiring dead on live television while goose-stepping.

    • Mister Grumpus says:

      So our reason for fleeing “conspiracy theories” instantly changes from fear of looking uncool, to fear for our lives.

      Eh?

      So much terror!

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