Mueller points deer, makes horse

Chinese have a lot more history than anyone else, and everything that happens today, happened before many times, usually in China.

So they have a saying “point deer, make horse

Qin, the first emperor of China, created the first highly centralized state, with a centralized bureaucracy instead of a distributed aristocracy. And of course, wound up with a far too powerful prime minister – the classic evil vizier.

The prime minister wanted to kill the next emperor, but was not sure he could get away with it. So, to test whether he can get away with it:

brings a deer into the palace, calls the emperor to come out, and says “look your majesty, a brought you a fine horse”. The Emperor, not amused, says “Surely you are mistaken, calling a deer a horse. Right?”. Then the emperor looks around at all the ministers. Some didn’t say a word, just sweating nervously. Some others loudly proclaimed what a fine horse this was. Great horse. Look at this tail! These fine legs. Great horse, naturally prime minister Zhao Gao has the best of tastes.


And next thing you know, anyone who doubted it was a horse was executed, and shortly thereafter the emperor.

If Mueller succeeds in arresting these people on bogus charges, he will arrest every Trump loyalist near Trump, and, shortly thereafter, Trump.

120 Responses to “Mueller points deer, makes horse”

  1. Steve Johnson says:

    Manafort isn’t really a Trump loyalist though, is he?

    He was hired because he was an insider who’d actually work for money in preventing the GOPe from stealing Trump’s nomination at the convention (as opposed to the usual insider who won’t actually fulfill promises to outsiders in exchange for money).

    Manafort’s actual crimes as described are all crimes that Clinton and Podesta are both involved in and likely also committed.

    I try not to follow the day-to-day too closely though and could well be wrong.

    • Wilbur Hassenfus says:

      Yes, Manafort goes way back with the Podesta gang.

      But nobody’s going to prosecute them. The fact that Mueller feels safe in skating so close to Uranium One is just a reminder of how safe those people are.

      • Wilbur Hassenfus says:

        Manafort is going to prison not for crimes, but for once acting honestly — unless he redeems himself by fingering someone valuable.

      • Steve Johnson says:

        Here’s the part B of that though – in the wikileaks Podesta email dump (other Podesta brother) – Podesta specifically mentioned that the HRC campaign wanted Trump to win the Republican nomination (or one of the other “unelectables’).

        Manafort might well have had a dispensation to work for Trump honestly.

    • jim says:

      These people are not Trump loyalists, Mueller is just nibbling at the outside.

      But the charges are bogus and political, if he can arrest one on bogus charges, he can arrest another.

      • Mike says:

        They arrested these latest guys on charges of conspiracy and corruption, things that have nothing to do with what is supposedly the main charge, “election meddling”. Sometimes I wonder if any friendliness to Russia at all counts as “collusion” for these guys. That being said, if the charges have any truth to them at all, they sound much the same as Hillary Clinton, rich, elitist, and thinking they can get away with absolutely anything. I’m not going to miss them, I just worry for Trump.

        • peppermint says:

          The line on Uranium One was going to be donations to Clinton foundation and fees for Bill’s speeches aren’t bribes to Hillary and if allowing the sale was bad policy it was free market bad policy that Democrats, who were pretending to be economic nationalists a decade ago, would disagree with.

          Then they got scared.

      • Mackus says:

        But /pol/ says that Mueller is trying to get Manaford to get Podesta!
        Uranium deal corruption. That Mueller is following leads into Russia/Trump collusion, because they’ll inevitably lead him to Russia/Clinton collusion. SJW always project. They gave Trump rope to hang them with.

        • jim says:

          Maybe.

          I think he is just testing the wind to see if how far he can go in convicting the innocent. Not that Manaford is innocent, but he innocent of these charges.

          • Alrenous says:

            This is the key point. Manafort could have been brought up on totally valid charges. Instead, brought up on bogus charges.

            See also: liars gonna lie. They feel uncomfortable accusing the guilty of their actual crimes.

            • Rhetocrates says:

              I think ‘feel uncomfortable’ is a misnomer.

              These people are all stirring a pot of crime and vice together. Not that they’re all into exactly the same crimes or vices, but they all understand that everyone else is into something. Something damaging, like embezzling millions or sodomizing 5-year-old children.

              They all understand that the way to play the power game is to dirty yourself in the same pot as everyone else, and then put a bright face on it. There’s a communal understood agreement that this gives everyone some kind of leverage over someone else, and you’re not going to get into a position of responsibility without having leverage and without somene having leverage on you.

              (This is why Trump is so scary; his communal pot of crime and vice is different from that of the DC elite.)

              Meuller bringing someone guilty up on charges that are nevertheless false is just playing the game per usual. Mueller exposing what’s actually going on behind closed doors is Mueller tipping the pot, and who knows where shit will flow if you tip the pot?

              Mueller knows this, so he’s signalling to other players that he knows how the game is played and is willing to play along.

              • Kevin C. says:

                “They all understand that the way to play the power game is to dirty yourself in the same pot as everyone else, and then put a bright face on it. There’s a communal understood agreement that this gives everyone some kind of leverage over someone else, and you’re not going to get into a position of responsibility without having leverage and without somene having leverage on you.”

                As Spandrell notes (https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2015/06/06/giving-the-handle/), Chinese has a handy aphorism for this: “The idiom is 授人以柄 shou ren yi bing, which translates as “handing over your (sword’s) handle.”

              • Jack says:

                nailed it, every word.

  2. […] Mueller points deer, makes horse […]

  3. peppermint says:

    Russian collusion collapsed, this is desperation that paves the way for prosecution of Democrats. Trump needs to pretend to be scared so they’ll double down harder, we don’t need to be because progressives are constitutionally incapable of listening to us.

    • Orthodox says:

      If he gets a conviction (the case may be tossed because of procedural errors), Mueller’s prosecution opens the door to going after everyone in Washington taking Saudi, Chinese, Israeli money, etc. Appoint a special prosecutor for every nation and find out how much money and influence is flowing around DC.

  4. Yes, though formal charges are unrelated to Trump they know Manafort understands they will try to break him on the rack until he has something to say about Trump. To some extent it is also pure desperation. The dems have sidelined themselves with stupid anti-white politics. The cuckservative era has officially drawn to a close with the fall of Corker and Flake. They have to make something happen sometime soon or forever make their peace. So now they’re throwing stuff against the wall in a frenzy and hoping something sticks. Manafort happened to be the most vulnerable on Trump’s outer circle of former associates. Their recklessness can backfire on them even more though, like that silly “dossier” has.

  5. Mister Grumpus says:

    I really appreciate the Point Deer Make Horse story/pattern. This is some real education happening here.

    And thanks for bringing it up. You’re explaining why Mueller (somehow) has to not get away with what he’s doing — or at least not with his status intact.

    • peppermint says:

      The Democrats aren’t going to get away with what Mueller is doing, and since Mueller is transparently their operative, he isn’t going to get away with it.

  6. Mackus says:

    Jim, what’s your take on some Judge trying to prohibit Pentagon from enforcing Trump’s rollback on Trans in military?

    • jim says:

      It is an absurd overreach of judicial power. Trump should just quietly, with no fuss or drama, ignore him. It is a pretty good test case for curbing the power of judges.

      If you grant that unelected men can do anything, then the only point to elections is nominating supremes.

      If Trump rejects one improper exercise of judicial power, it will be a lot easier to resist another, and a lot less likely that he will need to.

      Recall that Tony Abbott got away with curbing the power of judges.

      But it all depends on how pozzed the military is. To what extent have the officers been converged? If fully converged, we have a problem, and Trump has a problem.

      • Kevin C. says:

        “It is an absurd overreach of judicial power. Trump should just quietly, with no fuss or drama, ignore him.”

        Her, actually; one Colleen Kollar-Kotelly.

        “If fully converged, we have a problem, and Trump has a problem.”

        Definite understatement.

  7. Reluctant Dissident says:

    So with the tranny ban overturned and abortion on demand for all persons, what’s left of the fruits of democracy for the right?

    Oh maybe the official statistics on illegal immigration have gone down, like here in the UK. In other news the chocolate ration was increased again from 20g to 18.

    The real power in Washington is where it always was: the permanent government. Netflix got too close to ridiculing the Clintons (but “House Of Cards” is nothing compared to “Yes, Minister”) so the lead actor in a show Netflix poured millions of borrowed dollars into has been destroyed by a member of a show Netflix is currently pouring millions of borrowed dollars into.
    Every Pepéista on the planet will boycott Star Trek Diversity that little bit harder, until Netflix finally goes poof (as it were).

    That’s how you get things done. Not by saying words (the words! the words!) and hoping they come true. You don’t write words on a bit of paper and ask the judge if they’ll oblige: you ask the judge what to do and THEN write it on a bit of paper.

    The Clintons understand this and that’s why they’re the true sovereigns of the United States. It’s a bad government and hence unstable, but that’s the government, not the puppet show in the White Nationalist House.

    • Orthodox says:

      If you do things the “right” way and play by all existing rules and customs, don’t enact sweeping legal reform or other extraordinary measures, it takes about 10 years to turn the judiciary, 20 to clean it out. Trump is in a sweet spot because he might be able to make a 6-3 majority on SCOTUS, accelerating the process.

    • peppermint says:

      They want you to think Obama was the deporter in chief and Trump had no effect. They want you to think the tranny ban and leaving the Paris Accord has no effect.

      Illegals are leaving, DACA is dead and DAPA is even more dead, pediatricians are speaking out against turning small children into trannies and scientists are speaking out against the hoaxing.

      Where are the entertainment media personalities to say how horrible Trump is for hiring guys involved in Russian bribery? Oh, right.

      • Reluctant Dissident says:

        Well I hope you’re right. Then again I hoped David Cameron’s bonfire of the QUANGOs was real too.
        Meanwhile the tranny ban’s been banned and the illegals are leaving (their playstations) to get their free abortions.

        • peppermint says:

          > implying abortion of unwanted babies is a bad thing

          Keep in mind that normal White women – and normal White women do not burn coal, they understand that the SMV of Whites is vastly higher and they lose SMV by being known to underestimate their SMV, conversely, White-presenting women who do burn coal, these are often Jewish, do so rarely out of actual normal relationships or attraction to the behavioral or physical phenotype but mostly out of a degradation fetish which is itself a calculation that the woman can get a man with more resources if she relaxes her physical standards – use contraception consistently unless they want an accident.

          Some White coalburners only realize what they signed up for after they already have the marriage or the baby, because before then that seems like the finish line for a woman, because it would be if they had a human. With dirt niggers, the mudman often leaves before the baby is born, but sometimes they can find a kike or other sad sack to affirm their life choices. Sometimes they do the right thing and abort.

          Few human babies are aborted because contraception works and White women are smart enough to use it correctly. Mud women get most of the abortions, and those White women who abort, who would keep statistics on what percentage of abortions are of abominations?

          Boomerism must be destroyed, from anti-abortionism, to world-police-ism, to star-trek-ubiism, to eternal-youth-cultism.

          • Your Wife's Son says:

            Tellingly, you do not propose abolishing the single most boomerist notion of all: one-night-standinsm. Because if you wanted to abolish one-night-standism, you would do good to illegalize all contraception and condoms in particular, and yes, to illegalize many currently-legal abortions. Rest assured, the Jews would fight tooth and nail against you in such a scenario, because kikesses are masculine careerists, and the hookup and infanticide culture is exactly what they seek to preserve.

            You think that our opposition to abortions is a “tick,” a meme we have absorbed from televangelist clowns appearing in our talmud-v-zion box in the living room. Actually, there are perfectly rational grounds to prevent women from comitting wanton infanticide. Anglin gets it, and he is woke. Primarily, the abortion is one of the sharpest tools (if you pardon the gory pun) inside the feminist toolbox. Remove free-abortionism, and “muh career” is curbed, hence white fertility goes up.

            High class high socioecenomic women may not contribute a high percentage to the abortion-haver demographics, but THAT IS TOTALLY IRRELEVANT, BECAUSE *when* they occasionally get accidentally pregnant from their white nerd beta husband, *then* all too often they opt for womb butchery.

            You have a logical inference problem, Peppe. You see that a negress gets 5 abortions while a white nerdette gets only 1, and conclude that abortion is eugenic. Not so, because the 5 aborted ass-fruits are irrelevant, while the 1 aborted human may be all the difference between bloodline extinction and bloodline continuation. So in fact, even if most of the aborted are inferior specimens, while only a tiny minority of the aborted are high quality humans – that still makes abortion a net negative, still makes it dysgenic, because you really need those high quality humans.

            (There are gonna be billions of niggers with or without abortions; what we need is to have more high quality whites)

            Restricting abortions will go a long way towards abolishing that Jewiest and Boomeriest concept of one-night-standism. Many chicks do the hookups because they expect to come out of them with no zygotes inside their uteri, free to pursue the “dreams” that Shlomo has been inculcating in their minds since kindergarten. I want zygotes against ZOG.

            So yes, it is “a bad thing” when intelligent human children are infanticided by their busybody mothers. I’m not saying that because the gay televangelist told me so. It is logical and fits well with the larger plan to increase white TFR.

            • Jack says:

              ‘High class high socioecenomic women’
              ‘white nerd beta husband’
              You can have one or the other but not both. If she can’t swing a white alpha she aint as high end as you think.

            • Reluctant Dissident says:

              Abortions should be ‘restricted’ in the way that homicide is: if the foetus was threatening your life, you may abort – otherwise you got a lotta explaining to do.

              As for contraception, we don’t have to go full Catholic to see that they’re a terrible idea. The people who use them are responsible enough to breed. The people for whom the argument for their use makes any sense at all won’t use them.

              Just ban everything until law and order’s restored. In a peaceful, stable, orderly world laissez-faire to some extent of course, but in our fucko sicko world? I don’t think so.

              Martial law, full drug war (including alcohol) and fierce restrictions of sexual conduct.

            • Corvinus says:

              “Tellingly, you do not propose abolishing the single most boomerist notion of all: one-night-standinsm. Because if you wanted to abolish one-night-standism, you would do good to illegalize all contraception and condoms in particular, and yes, to illegalize many currently-legal abortions.”

              Jim is all about the sex outside of marriage thing, as well as the having sex other than your wife thing. Moreover, the PUAs would be out of work, Roosh and Roissy in particular.

              “Rest assured, the Jews would fight tooth and nail against you in such a scenario, because kikesses are masculine careerists, and the hookup and infanticide culture is exactly what they seek to preserve.”

              Actually, only those men and women, Jew and non-Jew, would fight over this liberty, however vile it is, being curtailed or prohibited. Because THEY are careerists in the pursuit of sex and flesh.

              “Restricting abortions will go a long way towards abolishing that Jewiest and Boomeriest concept of one-night-standism.”

              Actually, this concept was developed by men of all races and ethnicities. Even in American and Europe prior to 1900, such events transpired. The punishment, of course, was public shaming. shotgun wedding, or having your dick or tits cut off, especially if the man or woman was married.

              “Remove free-abortionism, and “muh career” is curbed, hence white fertility goes up.”

              No. Even if abortion and contraceptives were made completely illegal, people would still find ways to have one night stands and still find ways not to get pregnant. Refer to Prohibition. So your solution is more than likely dead on arrival. Besides, there are other reasons why white people decide on whether to have children other than “it’s good for our race”.

              “Many chicks do the hookups because they expect to come out of them with no zygotes inside their uteri, free to pursue the “dreams” that Shlomo has been inculcating in their minds since kindergarten. I want zygotes against ZOG.”

              Actually, many men and women do the hookups because they expect not to get pregnant if they took the precautions. And you can stammer your feet and clench your fists like a little rejected gamma making such demands like “I want zygotes against ZOG”. So how many white children in your brood by your wife?

              “(There are gonna be billions of niggers with or without abortions; what we need is to have more high quality whites)”

              Please define “high quality whites”. What are your metrics?

              Anything else, Mr. Rational?

              • peppermint says:

                》actually, every individual is capable of anything, therefore ideas don’t matter other than I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE because it increases the range of capabilities

                Why isn’t space tourism a thing and why hasn’t the moonbase been built? Why is Andrew Anglin banned from every online service if the world exists for our amusement?

                》many men and women do the hookups because they expect not to get pregnant if they took the precautions

                But why do they prefer it to one monitor full of porn and the other csgo?

              • Your Wife's Son says:

                >Even if abortion and contraceptives were made completely illegal, people would still find ways to have one night stands and still find ways not to get pregnant.

                No doubt – but promiscuity would go down, and, not long thereafter, monogamous and fertile marriage would go up. Thus female careerism goes down in flames as women opt out of the workforce to become obedient housewives.

                >Actually, many men and women do the hookups because they expect not to get pregnant if they took the precautions.

                Exactly my point. Destroy the precautions.

                >there are other reasons why white people decide on whether to have children other than “it’s good for our race”.

                Definitely, which is why the hostile environment (hostile for healthy family formation) created by the Cathedral should be replaced with a friendly environment. Whites would reproduce aplenty, without necessarily even realizing that it’s good for the white race, as the case used to be.

                >you can stammer your feet and clench your fists like a little rejected gamma

                VD jargon? Now you really fit in here. /sarcasm

                • jim says:

                  Not really. I don’t think you appreciate how powerful female sexuality is: “It just happened”.

                  Ban contraception and abortion, and one hell of a lot more fatherless pregnancies and outside of the pair pregnancies would ensue.

                  Just as economics, war and peace, boom or bust, feast or famine, has insignificant effect on reproduction, the availability of contraception and abortion has insignificant effect on female sexuality.

                  You would have better luck stopping a volcano with a firehose, or glacier with a brick wall.

    • Your Wife's Son says:

      >Netflix got too close to ridiculing the Clintons (but “House Of Cards” is nothing compared to “Yes, Minister”) so the lead actor in a show Netflix poured millions of borrowed dollars into has been destroyed

      Is that what happened? Or is it that my prediction was absolutely accurate, and someone is indeed manufacturing insane and unhinged pedohysteria, which is why “Spacey made sexual advances towards a 14-year-old actor” serves as a reason to destroy Spacey?

      What you need to understand is that you are a pedophile, I am a pedophile, Jim is a pedophile, Peppermint is a pedophile, B is a pedophile, Cavalier is a pedophile, Steve Johnson is a pedophile, Grumpus is a pedophile, Alrenous is a pedophile, Dannato is a pedophile, Moldbug is a pedophile, Anglin is a pedophile, Trump is a pedophile, Hitler was a pedophile, and God Himself is the biggest pedo in town.

      Do you get my point now, or will you only get it when you’re behind bars for an ever-expanding crimethink that was invented by puritans and enshrined in law by kikes? This is just the beginning, and the people disagreeing with me right now will come to regret it later on, because I will be proven right by the facts, as I already have been.

      • Cloudswrest says:

        It wouldn’t surprise me if someday they raised the minimum age of consent to 30 years old, but with an exemption for people over 18 who differ by less than 10 years. For example it would be illegal for a 31 year old man to have sex with a 19 year old girl, but not for a 28 year old to have sex with her. Gotta make room for the cougars.

        • Your Wife's Son says:

          If someone proposes raising the AOC to 30, without any exceptions, I actually support that. Worse is better. People need to snap out of this insanity, and enduring perpetual blue balls because the dominatrix… err, I mean, *the government* strictly forbids you from having sex with the vast majority of the population, strictly forbids you from having sex with the most fertile and attractive women, will result in a lot of snappenings.

          In 2015, Spain raised its age of consent from 13 to 16. And in countries where CP was formerly perfectly legal, the puritan-feminist alliance keeps pushing for moar governmental regulation and criminalization of it. Hurrah – more Bureaucracy, more Police, more Prisoners, more Surveillance, more Funding for the Spooks, more Big Government, sounds like so much fun.

          Conservadads in response to these well documented and globally observable trends: “oh no, the elites are g-g-going to m-make pedophilia legal.”

          Despite witnessing more and more men being thrown in jail for stupid bullshit that didn’t even exist 30 years ago (not to sound like a shitlib, but these are men from all classes, all races, all age groups, and all sexual orientations), the conservadad will assure you that — any second now — the evil elites are going to “legalize pedophilia,” when literally the exact opposite happens in every single country every day: the definitions of “pedophilia” and “childhood” consistently, exponentially expand to include, respectively, ever more behaviors and thoughts, and ever more segments of society, within them.

          The retardedness of it all… I can’t even. So yeah, let them raise it to 30 or 40 or as high as biologically (im)possible. Normies are dumbasses, but even the normies will snap and chimp the fuck out under these conditions. Meanwhile, whenever you are tempted to search for “pedophile rings” under the bed or inside the closet because the CIA is spreading disinfo over the internet, go back to this quote:

          “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” – Mencken

        • peppermint says:

          19 is the beginning of peak fertility and 31 is the latest a man could be said to have just started his career. Plato suggested this as an ideal.

          We need to think not in terms of numerical ages but in terms of stages in life. This is difficult for “inner child” Boomers because it implies that they’re not immortal and shouldn’t always be the center of attention.

        • Reluctant Dissident says:

          Playing Devil’s Advocate,

          “It wouldn’t surprise me if someday they raised the minimum age of consent to 30 years old,”

          This may turn out to be quite appropriate in some respects. Remember that 30-year-old boys play video games and collect comic books; their role models are people with super-powers and their hobbies include getting drunk and eating ice cream. Singing the birthday song at 30 is completely normal.

          30-year-old girls are more grown up in that they’re more promiscuous but they too are into toys and colouring books and holidays abroad.

          I actually wonder whether sex is truly non-icky at 30, or even 40 in many cases.

          nb. this is a Devil’s advocacy but there’s a grain of truth to it.

      • peppermint says:

        No, asshole, I was not attracted to my gf’s 14 year old little sister. She became attractive when she reached 16 and her behavior changed. Even so, in my 30s, I would not hit that when there are 19-26 year old women at peak fertility.

        Maybe you’re hoping to take an orphan too late for Westermarck to kick in into your home and wait until she’s ready because you don’t think you have enough to offer the 19-26 year old women. Truth be told, those young women have their pick of men under 35 and know it. But, you seem like a reasonably intelligent man. Go make yourself a chad tinder or okc, find a woman to sleep with, and you’ll forget about fetishes like women who don’t have fully developed bodies capable of carrying your children tomorrow, women who don’t act like adults, consent, bdsm that goes beyond what 500 years ago would have been recognized as vanilla sex, bisexuality, women who fuck animals or do other degrading things, sluts, cuckoldry, fatties, and other alternative strategies.

        • Your Wife's Son says:

          >No, asshole, I was not attracted to my gf’s 14 year old little sister.

          You did not get my point. If you ever had increased blood flow to your penis because a teenager (regardless of specific age) had flashed her cleavage before you, you are a “pedophile.” These are the rules now.

          And even if you haven’t had increased blood flow to your penis when you’ve seen a large-breasted teenager crouching in front of you, the fact of the matter is that she — again, regardless of specific age, could be 11 or 15 — can find instant sex with lots of men. Your standards and preferences aren’t universal, evidently.

          But that’s a digression from the bigger issue, which is that every man, and soon every woman, will eventually fall under the category of “pedophile.” Which category was an anti-concept when it was first invented by sexologists, and is all the moreso an anti-concept today.

          By the way, you know who invented the term “pedohysteria,” which I often use? This guy:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Brand

          I suggest you read his stuff. Note that he did not defend boylove, and that likewise, I do not defend boylove. But I strongly support getting the “jail” out of “jailbait.” And there is plenty of visual and audial evidence over the darknet that girls as young as 8-year-old intentionally masturbate to orgasm (and are competent enough to record themselves doing it and then to spread these self-made materials all over the right places). That’s true whether or not you find anything attractive about that.

          You can find our worldly reality to be very unpleasant – who cares? It’s still reality, and I can post the relevant links to back up my claims with proof, though I doubt Jim would be particularly happy about direct links to CP appearing on his blog. I have already posted an indirect link a few times. If we are forced into the darknet one day, which is likely, I’ll have further liberty to prove these points in a “clear cut open and shut” manner.

          When Jim first suggested these things, writing about girls aged 8 or 9, I thought: “yeah, our Jimmy is a real pedo,” which, incidentally, is what you may or may not think about me. But the evidence is unequivocal. Jim has been right about this issue from the very start, and to be honest, I couldn’t care less even if he were a real pedo – because girls truly are horny, and those who are very horny, can be outright whorish at ages you’d find ridiculously young.

          500 or 1,000 years ago, none of what I have written here would have been considered even slightly controversial. It is controversial now, because pedohysteria is part and parcel of modern-day puritanism, the meme that has conquered the world.

          • Jack says:

            If you dig for inferior specimens you can find anything. Pathology abounds. Real people mature later.

            • Your Wife's Son says:

              You imagine the girls to be non-white, or maybe white trash:

              Wrong.

              • Jack says:

                I’ve seen it happen. I’ve been a victim. Never a girl from a good family. it isn’t impossible, but good blood usually breeds true.

                • jim says:

                  I see girls from good family starting sex with bad boys long before puberty. Dual income or divorced parents.

                • peppermint says:

                  Oh, and what’s a good family? Does a good family father believe in christcuckoldry as amended by social progress and take the kids to church and to school?

                  Does he believe in feminism and refuse to dominate his woman when she acts up to try to get a response out of him, leaving them both miserable? Does he put up with it or accept divorce, showing everyone’s kids that marriage doesn’t work?

                • Jack says:

                  ‘Oh, and what’s a good family? Does a good family father believe in christcuckoldry as amended by social progress and take the kids to church and to school?

                  Does he believe in feminism and refuse to dominate his woman when she acts up to try to get a response out of him, leaving them both miserable? Does he put up with it or accept divorce, showing everyone’s kids that marriage doesn’t work?’

                  a good family is a stable family formed by qualtiy people. no. no. no. no. no.

                • jim says:

                  Sounds like a no true scotsman argument.

                • Alf says:

                  Saw it today again. Young teenage girl from wealthy family, hanging with a teenage boy that oozed bad news.

                • peppermint says:

                  Yeah, see, as a liberal, you impose superhuman virtue standards and mock those who fail. And you set up institutions that require superhuman virtue standards. But Trump is a man of superhuman virtue. You never expected him to exist.

                • jim says:

                  Pharisees – this is the criticism that Jesus made

                • Your Wife's Son says:

                  I can directly link to CP, like a federal agent. But I have something almost as good: quotes from books! Without further ado:

                  Claudia

                  I have never been ashamed of my fantasies, but I just didn’t know that’s what they were. I’m only fourteen years old, so I haven’t screwed yet, but I do enjoy some sex with my boyfriends. I have had fantasies ever since I can remember. As a little kid, I imagined I was a harem girl, or a slave girl on sale at a public marketplace. I was always well-developed in the fantasy, although I was actually flat as a board then and didn’t have a single pubic hair. In my fantasy, men would walk by me and examine me, but only with their eyes. It wasn’t until I was eleven years old that I even began to think and fantasize of guys putting their fingers up me. When I was ten, I stopped being the submissive one in my thoughts, and became the seducer. At night, I would (and still do) think of a foxy guy I know or a handsome teacher and imagine me telling him to suck my tits, while I softly play with his cock.

                  I “cock watch,” naturally. I can’t help it. To me, it’s just like guys looking at boobs. I sometimes wear sexy clothes, and it excites me to know that I have caused a guy to get a boner. I then imagine what his cock looks like, how large his balls are, how erect it (the dick) is, if he’s circumcised or not, etc. You know, all the things girls who like guys enjoy thinking about.

                  Deedee

                  I’m writing this because I think I may be a lesbian – I’m not sure. I think it all started when I was six or seven years old. My playmate and I used to take off all our clothes. Then I would climb on top of her (I’m very aggressive), open her pussy lips, and grind the hell out of her. Then I met her older sister, Tish. One day, Tish was alone in the house, and asked me to come over. She had on a nightgown, but with nothing underneath. She raised the gown and told me to rub her pussy. I did it, and in my fantasies even today, I am often still seven years old. I like to remember how I opened her lips and tickled her clitoris. Even as I write this, I can imagine how she looked when she reached climax. The reason I think I may be a lesbian is that she didn’t tell me to open her pussy lips and tickle her. I did this all on my own.

                  When I became eight years old, I gave up my playmate for a boyfriend named Teddy. Teddy and I used to go down into the basement and take off all our clothes and fuck all day. (I know that isn’t the way it could have been, but that’s how it seems in my memories.) But he soon told his pals, and they joined us. One day, seven boys pulled a train on me. I didn’t tell my mom or dad, because I enjoyed it so much. But I think that incident is what made me dislike boys and want to go back to women.

                  Gena

                  I should acquaint you with myself before I make my own contribution to your next book. I am nineteen, married two and-a-half years, and soon to be a mother for the second time. I 60 consider myself oversexed – if there is such a thing! – and bisexual. I hope I have gained a wider-than-average acquaintance over the past few years with life, love, sex, and the self-improvement arts.

                  I can remember that my fantasies began at an early age; five or six. At this age, I would often think how very nice it would feel to have someone older do these “naughty, but oh so nice,” things to me … as I lay in my bed, night after night, riding a tightly stretched piece of sheet with my tiny “cunny.” In particular, I hoped it would happen with a seventeen-year-old boy who was a neighbor. I also couldn’t wait to know what a boy’s “thingy” looked and felt like. Then one day, in the spring following my seventh birthday, all my fantasies were answered. Terry (I remember him well) asked me to join him in “listening to some music.” The stereo was in his room, which was actually a bunkhouse well away from his parent’s house and the rest of their farm. When we began talking, I soon felt we had become close, and so I thought it would be “proper” for me to ask him some pretty personal questions. He seemed to get a strange gleam in his eyes and said, “Shoot!” I remember the first and only question I had a chance to ask that day was, “What do boys look like down there?” He made me promise not to tell a soul, and then asked if I really would like to see for myself – that would be easier than trying to explain, he said. I very anxiously said yes. He took down his clothes and stood before me. I remember staring at his penis and wanting so badly to touch it. He sensed it. “You want to touch me, don’t you?” he said. “Take off your jeans, and I’ll show you how nice we can feel.” Again, I anxiously did so. He then “felt me up” until I almost died because it only kept feeling better and better. Then he showed me how to “bring him off.” How delightful that first experience was, and I doubt it will ever be forgotten.

                  Through age ten, I continued having more and more sexual adventures, but about that age, I began to have fantasies about what it would be like to hold and be held by another of my own sex. At age eleven, I found out.

                  Jennie

                  First, I’ll give you some background information about myself. I am seventeen, and my boyfriend is sixteen. We are both seniors in high school, and plan to get married in three years. I always considered myself a girl of high morals and always thought I would be a virgin until I was married.

                  Where I was brought up, sex was pretty much taboo. No one ever spoke about it, so I never knew anything about sex. I know that when I was about nine years old I used to get sensual feelings, although at the time I didn’t know what they were. I used to take my clothes off and rub my small breasts and my cunt against the cold washing machine, and this made me feel very good. At other times, I would take all my clothes off and run around in the woods across the street. Sometimes my girl friend would come with me, and we would sit and masturbate ourselves or each other. Just thinking about doing these things when I was a kid would get me excited, and the next thing I knew I was doing them or thinking up something new that would make me feel good. Given the puritanical background where I grew up, it’s amazing I didn’t feel really guilty as a kid, but I didn’t. I just knew it couldn’t be bad if it felt that good.

                  Nowadays, I fantasize whenever I have time on my hands … or my hands on myself. I don’t think I masturbate any more than the average girl, but I don’t know much about the average girl. It’s a sexy world, so I have sexy thoughts quite a bit. I don’t usually fantasize when I have sex with my boyfriend. All I need to hear is his heavy breathing and I get horny. My boyfriend loves to experiment with sex. Sometimes we fuck with him coming in from the back, sometimes sitting up; we even tried it in the shower once.

                  He likes it when I use my mouth on him. Often, in public, I can’t refrain from touching him up. Up until recently, I would never allow him to perform cunnilingus on me, but now I love to feel him sucking my clitoris and slipping his tongue in and out of me.

                  When I’m by myself masturbating or daydreaming, my fantasies change all the time. My favorite fantasies include being fucked by a lion, a black man, or a cousin of mine. I’ve always dreamed about trying incest, but I have no brothers. The closest I can get is my cousin. He is ten years older than me. Recently, my grandfather died, and my cousin came up from Georgia for the funeral. We have always been attracted to one another, and during the middle of the night, he came down to where I was sleeping on the sofa. We smoked a jay, and he kissed me. Then we got into some petting. After a while, I told him to go away. Since then, how many times I’ve wished I hadn’t! My chance will come again, but I know I won’t let anything happen, because I am very faithful to my boyfriend, and I know he would never have an affair with another girl. But I love to use this story of what happened that night with my cousin as my fantasy; I try all sorts of different endings to it, thinking about all the things that could have gone on between us.

                  I have no guilt feelings about fantasizing. I love to hear my boyfriend tell me he’s going to “fuck me” during intercourse. It really turns me on. Some of my fantasies I share with him. There is one we plan to carry out soon. I told him I wanted him to force himself upon me, to rape me when I said “No” to him. He wants me to fight him off while he tells me he’s going to fuck me.

                  We have not got into “the group thing.” It doesn’t appeal to either of us. My boyfriend says he doesn’t fantasize. Maybe someday he will. I have found that when I do fantasize during sex, it adds to both of our excitement.

                  Carla and Tom

                  Since my brother and I read your book, My Secret Garden, we have felt great relief to know we were not the only brother and sister who fuck. May we add our bit to your next book? I hope it will help others like us. Tom and I don’t consider what we’re doing “unnatural” at all. Being in bed with him seems like the most natural thing of all.

                  I like to go over my memories when I have nothing else to do. It gives me a warm feeling to remember all the people in my life, because I liked so many of them. I remember when I was six that my mother used to scold me when she caught me playing with my cunt, but I always had the desire to expose myself to the little boys who came over to play in our yard. I would take off my panties, and I remember several times the older boys would take me into a corner and play with my cunt. Some boys took all their clothes off one day and laid me down on their shirts and pants and worked their fingers up me. I liked it, but it made me sore. I didn’t say anything to my mother, because she would stop the boys from coming over to play at our house. The first time a bigger boy took me into the back seat of a car in a garage, he removed all my clothes and spread my legs so far apart I thought he would split me apart. He kept getting closer and closer, and I thought he was examining me. I like the idea that he wanted to see my cunt so closely, but he suddenly proved my reading of what he was up to wrong: he got his mouth into my cunt and was darting his tongue in and out like a snake. I loved it so much that when he wanted to stop I begged him to do it some more. He promised to come over often and do this to me. We found places like our attic, garage, or sheds in the woods. I was very sad the day his family moved to another part of the state, but before he left, he taught me a nice game. He used a weiner to jack me off with and then told me to eat the weiner so that nobody would ever discover I had a weiner in my bedroom. When he moved away, I used to do this and think of him.

                  When I was old enough to go to school, the boys soon found out that they could get to play with my cunt any time at all. My uncle found the same to be true one summer we spent July and August on his ranch in New Mexico. I have very happy memories of the way my uncle loved to play with my cunt and took me with him when he was making trips around the place. Uncle was very kind to me, and when he suckers my cunt, he did it very gently. I remember one time we were a long way from home, and he found a spot where it was really quiet. He had me undress completely, and he spread out a large quilt, laid me down, and put his tongue in my cunt. At this time, I was nine years old. We had fun, and then he undressed and showed me his cock. I had never seen a grown man’s cock before, and I did not understand how it could be so big. He got on top of me and told me to be easy in my mind; he was just going to put the head of his cock up to my cunt. I asked him what would happen then, and he said that he would just do with his cock the way he had always done with his finger, so I wasn’t frightened. Instead, did that ever start my desire to have that cock in my cunt. He spread my cunt lips open and gently shoved his cock part way in. His actions just drove me to want that big cock all the way in, just as I had gotten used to shoving a big, rubber, imitation weiner all the way in when I wanted to jack off. (The rubber one was bigger and better than the real ones I had started with.) When my uncle shoved his whole cock in, he found it was easier to do than he had thought. He asked me if I had ever fucked before. I told him about the big rubber weiner. He asked if I had brought it along. I had, and told him how I used it when I was by myself. That made him so excited that after our first fuck he spent two more hours just sucking my cunt. Then he asked me to take his cock in my mouth. I was so afraid that if I said no he would never fuck me anymore that I took his cock and sucked him. He kept telling me to suck harder, and after I had sucked awhile my tongue got sore, so we stopped. When we returned to the house everyone had gone to see a movie, so that left us alone. I was so tired that I just fell asleep. When I woke up, my uncle was sucking my cunt.

                  The next day my uncle and aunty had to go into town for a meeting, leaving my brother and I alone. We spent the time looking around because being on a ranch was so new to us. We came across two dogs who were trying to fuck. We watched and it got me so passionate that I stepped backward, up against the front of my brother’s pants. He was feeling the same way, because without a word, he put his hands up under my halter, exposing my little breasts and cupping my tits in his hands. We soon were kissing, and he had me walk around to the back of the milk house. When we were there, he pulled my bikinis off and the halter of my sunsuit. We played a bit there that way, and then we made a dash for the house – me running naked all the way – and went to his bedroom. It started that way, just as easy as that, and from then on we have been fucking each other all along very happily and that was twelve years ago. Do you know any other marriages that have continued happily for twelve years? I don’t. I wish people who read this letter and feel bad about us would remember that before they criticize. We now live together, and every one of our friends think we are husband and wife. He is very considerate. Unlike most husbands, he shaves every day so that he will not irritate my skin, etc.

                  One of the letters in My Secret Garden spoke about dogs. When Tom and I read this, we decided to see what it was like. My brother and I started to fuck to get the dog excited. It sure did – he got in between our legs and licked both Tom and me while we were fucking. What a pleasure! When we finished, Tom let his cock go off in me. (I’m on the pill) Tanzy licked my cunt, and Tom just lay back and watched. We let Tanzy lick as long as he wanted, and then he began to get up on his hind legs and hug my leg. That told us he wanted to fuck. Tom had me get up on my knees and he helped Tanzy get his cock in my cunt. We did not know how much cock a dog has, but I soon found out. When he got that knob in my cunt, he had over eight inches of cock shoved, up me. Fuck, you never know what it can do to a girl until she gets fucked by her dog. That pink fleshy cock is in my cunt whenever Tanzy has a desire to fuck me. Tom likes to watch his cock plunge in and out of my cunt. One day Tom asked me how it made me feel, and when I told him, we tried to get Tanzy to shove it up Tom’s asshole so he could feel what I was feeling. But the hole was too small for Tanzy to get in. Sometimes I get up on top of Tom, and we both lay that way, both our legs apart, bellies up, and Tom lets Tanzy fuck me when we are in this position. Tom’s cock rides in the crack of my ass below, and Tanzy is giving it to me from straight above. If I am alone and Tanzy wants to fuck, I place the davenport cushions on the floor and lay on my back. Tanzy is very smart and knows how to fuck me both from the rear and front. I love to fuck him from the front, because I can look down and see his cock entering my cunt, that pink shaft just going in and out. He always licks my cunt clean after we get through fucking.

                  It was Tom’s idea that I write this letter to you, but when I got started typing, I got so excited that he had to help me finish it. My last thought is that anything you fuck that makes you feel good is okay.

                  Theda

                  The first sexual fantasy I had was on viewing a teacher’s very rotund posterior. I would have been not more than seven or eight. He wore a very short coat, was fat, and his bum filled his trousers, sharply outlining his cheeks. I remember it giving me a definite sexual feeling even at that age, also of finding an excuse for going to bed early in order to have the privacy for being able to dwell upon those inspiring orbs. This was before I masturbated, but the infantile urge to slide my hand down his bum cheeks and round to “the front” compelled me even then.

                  After being introduced to masturbation, my main problem was obtaining the privacy in which to indulge. I had to sleep with a younger sister who was aware of the slightest movement. The movement of my hand had to be extremely surreptitious and slow and the fingering of the clitoris would be prolonged to exquisite lengths. This would inevitably invite sexual fantasy, based on what I’d heard from other girls…my age could not have been more than fourteen…who had seen their brothers’ cocks. One girl in particular, Monica, was a great source of fantasy. She allowed boys to feel her while she undid their flies and “tossed them off.” The phrase still excites me, and on endless occasions I have mentally substituted myself for Monica. Monica’s mother took in a lodger, and after I had been sworn to the greatest secrecy, Monica told me how she had witnessed him masturbating, and the size of his genitalia. The idea of his orgasm in truth enraptured me, and was the basis for more than fantasy: It became an ambition. I still masturbate fantasizing myself as the voyeur of this lodger’s solitary pleasures.

                  Lindsay

                  My fascination with men and the whole idea of sex began when I was about ten. I had never seen a penis before one day when I was in the woods near our home and saw a man piss. I was absolutely fascinated by his penis, but he saw me looking and whisked it out of sight. I hung around those woods every spare moment I had, hoping to see another one. If a man even stood still for any reason at all I’d think, This is it! and saunter over hoping for a glimpse. I spent hours trying to visualize just what it had looked like and thinking up words to describe a penis-proud, dominant, pulsating. I could go on. For years I would lie in my little virgin bed and think about that glimpse of my first penis. All those hours spent in the woods, hoping for another chance, it’s a wonder I was never raped or murdered.

                  Joan

                  I think my fantasies began when I was quite young, but I have always remembered the first thing that really started me off. I still find it exciting to think about. I was about twelve and knew as much about sex as the next girl, I suppose. One day, two other girls and myself were in the park with several boys fifteen or sixteen years old. They bullied a younger boy to expose himself to us. This obviously fascinated all three of us girls, and as you might have guessed, the next thing that happened was an intensive petting session between us and the older boys. It may sound strange, but I can’t really remember if one of those boys really got all the way inside me or not. But throughout it all, and still to this day, I can remember seeing that small red knob coming out through the foreskin, and I remember wondering whatever that little red thing was that was coming out toward me.

                  Sonia

                  When I was about eleven or twelve I used to sit in the back seat of the car on trips and cross my legs very tightly. Our car made a very bumpy ride, and by sitting clear to one side each little bump and vibration would sexually stimulate me. The first time I experienced this I looked out of the car window and saw a horse in a field with his penis dropped way down. Every time after that I imagined the horse was entering me. I didn’t have an orgasm then from this fantasy, just stimulation. But now when I masturbate and think of being penetrated by a horse, it brings on a terrific orgasm.

                  Hope

                  Now I remember an even earlier fantasy…I’d almost forgotten about it. When I was six or seven I can remember masturbating and imagining my father inserting the handle of a large screwdriver inside me and masturbating me. There never was any other contact but this. It’s strange because I’d never experienced being penetrated yet, and my father and I have never gotten along at all. I had that one for a couple of years.

                  Nina

                  I am thirty-three years old, a lesbian, and have been happily, “married” for the past five years. My fantasies during sex are very much a reflection of what is actually happening. Very often we will “act out” our roles as Mum and Baby, as she sucks my nipples and I sing her nursery songs. At other times she acts the male role and I describe out loud what her “cock” is like and how it is affecting me while we masturbate each other. Our lovemaking pleasure is always heightened by the use of words like “cunt ,” “fuck,” etc., which we normally don’t use…only in bed. I should add that my fantasies are always about my lover, never about some other lesbian. If I did have ideas about another woman, I would never tell her, as she is terribly jealous natured.

                  When I discovered the delights of masturbation, at the age of seven, even then I used to imagine it was my girl friend who was rubbing between my legs. I suppose I’ve always been a lesbian and it was just a matter of time before I made these early fantasies come true. Sometimes, while masturbating as a child, I would imagine her dog was licking my cunt (which it sometimes did and which excited me greatly).

                  Esther

                  I began fantasizing at a very early age; at eight, I believe. At that time, my uncle, then about fourteen, showed me his erect penis, and showed me where it was supposed to go. He gave me a demonstration with his finger, which I enjoyed very much, and rubbed the head of his penis against my small hole. We engaged in similar sex play many times, and I began to masturbate regularly. Always, it was accompanied by thoughts of his finger screwing me, or his penis caressing my inner lips and clitoris. When I was thirteen, I began having sex with my brother, and this continued irregularly until about my sixteenth year.

                  Bella

                  But my principal fantasies have always been about my father. I was an only child and had a good home, receiving lots of affection from my parents, especially my father. He has, since I was about eight years old, been my fantasy lover during masturbation.

                  Dad went to work very early, six days a week, and as a child, when I went to my parents’ bed in the mornings, it was only on Sundays that both parents were in bed. This particular Sunday morning, I know I must have been eight, because the Sunday papers carried news of a hotel being bombed in Jerusalem, and this was in the summer of 1946. I was in bed only a short while with my parents when my mother decided to get up and go to a nearby farmhouse for some fresh milk. Alone in bed with Dad, I had a wrestling match with him. I remember enjoying the cuddles and embraces as Dad tried to subdue me and then he decided, I suppose, to let me win. He lay on his back, his pajamas were undone, my own nightie was up around my waist, and when I straddled and sat on my father, my naked pubic area came down on my Dad’s very large and, I now know, erect penis. It was like sitting astride a broom handle. At first it lay flat against my Dad’s tummy. I rocked my bottom back and forward while Dad lay very still. It was at this precise moment I learned to masturbate. Eventually Dad reached for a hankie and rolled me off him. He got out of bed and dressed in the bathroom. I continued to lie in bed and touch myself lovingly with my fingers. I then began to do this all the time in bed or when I was alone in the house, always thinking of that hard thing Daddy had, and how nice it would be to feel it between my legs again. But this was not to happen. Every other Sunday morning I went to my parents’ bed, but Dad was already up and about. As I began to learn more about sex from other kids at school, I became more adventurous in my fantasies, until they settled into a set pattern when I was almost thirteen.

                  It was at this age that I was playing around with a slightly older girl. She talked a lot about sex and one day told me her big secret, that was having sex with a much older married brother. She told me what the word “incest” meant; part of the sex she explained was fellatio. She said how she loved to do this to her brother, and how he sometimes went down on her privates as well.

                  Marina

                  I had masturbated systematically from a very early age, around three, I think, and so much and so often that my parents consulted a doctor about it. As a child, I used to think of a favorite friend or playmate, or a beautiful lady neighbor of ours, whom I worshipped at the time. Around nine or ten, I started to be aware of men and think of them while masturbating. I had a vague idea of what lovemaking was, but it stopped at French kissing. My ignorance was set right by a girl friend, also aged ten – children mature very early around the Mediterranean – whose father was a gynecologist, so she was obviously au courant. I remember we were munching grapes by a stream in my parents’ country place on a sweltering summer day, and constantly, obsessively discussing boys, boys, boys, love, love, love, kissing, necking, petting…Then she said did I know what really happens between men and women, and how, and she told me, more than lucidly. Immediately I thought: “But that must be like masturbation, only instead of rolled sheets, my favorite tool, there would be juicy, moist flesh.” The prospects seemed heady, and I started floating on a lovely haze of possibilities. “And if you’d really like to know what it feels like,” she continued, “the thing to do is to get a kettle, fill it with warm, but not too hot, water, open your legs really wide, and slowly pour it in”. There was no time to be lost. We both rushed indoors, pinched Mummy’s best Russian silver, teapot, locked ourselves in the bath, sat at opposite ens of the bathtub with legs wide open, and took turns at pouring the contents of the teapot all over our clitorises, while caressing our bodies with infallible, instinctive verve. I thought of myself alternately as Mother Earth, watered by fertility rain, in a lovely ritual in Eygpt, or Crete, and an autocratic empress, who sampled all the young men of her kingdom at the beginning of spring, to renew herself. (All were handsome because I’d exterminated the others.) I can’t tell you what my friend thought, as I was lost in self-absorption.

                  Iris

                  I am twenty-three years old, have been married two years, and have two children. The earliest fantasies I can remember were when I was nine or ten years old; I would imagine that the boys in my class were looking at me and touching me and discussing my anatomy. Nowadays my fantasies are similar. I often fantasize that the man I am with is closely examining my sexual organs, not as a doctor, but as a lover. Sometimes I imagine he’s discussing me with a friend while they both examine me and bring me to orgasm manually while they watch. I often practice this fantasy in front of a mirror while masturbating.

                  Liz

                  I discovered my sex drive while very young, because I lived on a farm and watched the animals mate. I never desired any of these myself, and yet the reptile played a most delightful wicked part of my fantasies. This one takes place when I was twelve or fourteen years old. I’m lying in bed on fire with an itch that drives me crazy. In my fantasy, I think, What can I fuck and my parents not know, even though it is right under their nose (my mother was a very light sleeper)? I have it – a snake.

                  It slithers quietly and surely on its way. I’m lying on the bed, naked, hot and wet, all swollen with yearning. It slides under the door, long, big, and hard and wicked – (the devil!) – creeps on the bed without effort and drives its ugly head right into my throbbing hot pussy. The thrill knows no end as I masturbate faster to keep in time with the shivering snake.

                  I had this fantasy for years till I got married. Then it switched to men and real penis dreams.

                  Wilma Joan

                  I’m twenty-five and a mother of two. I fit into quite a few of your categories of various kinds of fantasy. I fantasize almost constantly, I’ve masturbated since I was twelve and really became interested in sex from about age nine. My parents never told me anything about sex and were very cool to each other. That added to my curiosity.

                  Dot

                  I fantasize twenty-four hours a day (awake and sleeping), and have since I was twelve years old (I am now twenty-eight). I was starting to think I was abnormal until I read your book. I am single and have had a very active sex life for about the last ten years with various lovers, all married. The only thing I think about when I am making love is how wonderful it feels; there is nothing that can compare to it. I do masturbate almost every day, sometimes a couple of times a day. I love to do this when reading a sexy book or looking at pictures of naked, women. So I guess most of my fantasies are lesbian, although I have never had an affair with another woman. I like to lay in bed at night and think what it would be like to have a woman make love to me. I love to feel my nipples get hard and think about how it would feel to have a woman suck on them. I play with myself until I reach a orgasm, and at the same time imagine someone is eating me. I also like to think about doing the same things to someone else. As much as I love doing this and thinking about it and maybe someday having an affair with a woman, I never would want to replace a man. That is the best fucking there is. I also think about what it would be like to have both a man and a woman making love to me at the same time. I have never told anyone about my fantasies before, and I feel relieved that I can write it to someone (also very horny right now).

                  Marylou

                  It amused me to even read in the Quickie section that two different women get their kicks from Tarzan. He was my earliest fantasy man. Every time I read Tarzan comics, I’d get a tingle; then I’d make up my own stories before I fell asleep at night. I guess I was about twelve. I later changed to some fantasy boys – Spin and Marty. I suppose because I could then be included in the story.

                  Sally

                  First, let me tell you about myself. I am nineteen, just married last December, and I love sex. My husband is twenty-four and very healthy.

                  Since I read your book, and also while I was reading it, I began to think about my own fantasies. I always had these thoughts, since I was around twelve, but never told anyone or acted them out. I guess I never really thought about them until I read that other women had the same sort of thoughts.

                  Ivy

                  I think for me it’s true that certain fantasies stem from childhood. I can remember having feelings reading the parts of Tom Sawyer where the schoolmaster switched children. I was raised a very strict Catholic and would never allow my “sexual” thoughts in my head. But thoughts of spankings and pain, which turned me on, didn’t fall into that category, because I was too young to recognize those pleasurable feelings as sexual, or at least sensual. Likewise, a movie scene in which a group of rough men were ordering a woman in a bar to undress of they’d kill her male friend (knife at his throat) turned me on at almost age twelve, and my rape-type fantasies have this theme. The force is never raw strength, but psychological domination, threat of what they might do to someone else who is there (a male friend of mine) if I don’t go along.

                  Rose Ann

                  I’m twenty-three, single, college grad, working as a secretary, gong to grad school for psych in the fall. I’ve had at least twenty-five sexual relationships with men, half that number with women. I really like both, although it is easier to be passive with men, and as you will see from my fantasies, this is pretty much where it’s at for me.

                  At age four, my six-year-old girl friend and I would play “Witchdoctor.” This consisted, from what I recall, of her bending me over a box in my mother’s closet, pulling down my pants, and inserting her finger into my ass. I really used to get off on this (age four?), and the Witchdoctor theme has persisted until now (with hundreds of variations, of course), until now it is almost impossible for me to climax without a form of this fantasy. Since reading your book, I have discovered that it works to think of the simple act of fucking, or of a woman (in whom I may be interested at the moment) eating me. I never thought these kinds of simple thoughts could turn me on enough (too normal) to help me come. But thanks to you, my “fantasy bank” has suddenly doubled in value.

                  About me: I masturbate all the time. Most every day (whether I’m having a relationship or not). Lot of times, if I stay home from work one day or on a Saturday when I don’t feel like going out, I can lie in bed all day and come again and again and feel like I haven’t wasted my day at all. Last night, I came nine times before going to sleep. Anyway … let’s get into my fantasy.

                  When the movie The Devils came out, a whole new fantasy world opened to me. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it. The “nun-possessed-by-sexual-demons-that-must-be-exorcisedthrough-sexual-means” type of thing. Vanessa Redgrave, the nun in question, had to go through the most delicious forced tortures (having her breasts bound with barbed wire, etc.) It turned me on so I had to leave in the middle to go home and masturbate. The rape scene from Rosemary’s Baby did the same. At age seven or eight I saw a television flick about these Martians that landed and were taking over earth by nabbing the town’s most prominent folks and drilling these little computerized control devices in to the backs of their necks. Watching that movie, I can remember feeling my cunt throbbing like the dickens for the first time. Watching this beautiful, utterly passive woman, her neck bent forward, and this drill beginning to enter her neck … wow. I remember my mother came in and wanted to tell me something just as this was happening, and I threw something at her. I was so wrapped up and throbbing and angry that she’d disturbed me. Of course, she thought I was just into the flick. She didn’t know why, I’m sure, but she didn’t talk to me for days ’cause of my throwing something at her.

                  Diane

                  Am twenty three, single, and have had a varied sex life. My remembrance of sex-play must be when I was about six years old. Every chance I had when alone was to strip all my clothes off, sit with my legs up to my 211 chin, and just finger play. At the time, the words cunt, fuck, cock, etc., were not my language, but now I know and shall use the proper word in my letter. The sex-play I enjoyed was to use my finger, and then I tried many items, rubber items for pets, such as is given to dogs to chew on. Well do I remember finding a big rubber cock in a box in the storage room. I kept it well hid and played with it after I had gone to bed. The size was large, but in a short period of time I had mastered getting it way up in my cunt. The time I had it up my cunt when our dog came into my room, jumped up on the bed, and – as your book described – a fast lick with a doggie’s tongue, and your new experience is in for a thrill. Well, after that, whenever I could be alone, I would let Skip lick my cunt. Could be in our garage, basement, or in the woods, as we lived in the sticks. He was always ready to lick my cunt. From that, I soon learned he loved to hug my leg and work his ass. Well, I had him on his back one day and played with his cock. No one home, so I stripped and sat on his stomach and slid my cunt up to his cock and let it go in. It was real warm. I worked my cunt on his cock, and he laid still. His head was behind me, so I could hold him and force his cock in. While I was only eight then, I had seen dogs fucking, so I was anxious to see if he could fuck me. We went for a walk back into the woods and found a spot where we would be not so apt to be found. Now I never wore panties, and all I had on was a dress. I took off my dress and spread my legs apart while standing, and let Skip lick my cunt. When he got to working his ass, I got down on my knees to get him to fuck me. He knew what I was doing and mounted me. I got my hand on his cock and spread my cunt open and led his tip of his cock into my cunt. What a thrust he gave, and my cunt was full of his cock. Every stroke he gave, his cock got longer, and then I felt a bulge go in my cunt, and we were in action. Sure glad no one was around to hear me talk like I did. When he got going, I kept telling him to fuck faster, faster, faster, and it seemed so much pleasure. Finally, he came, and when I started to pull away, he cried; I could feel the hardness just inside my cunt. When he pulled his cock out of me, my cunt was on fire, and was his cock slender, but long. The huge knot at the back end of his cock was bright red. I laid on my back and just let my cunt cool, as it was really hurting. He licked my cunt, and when he found my clit, he just kept licking. Guess my juice was coming, and he was licking it as it came out. Well, we have had many a good fuck since, and I found another dog to replace Skip. Well, when I was about eleven years old, our newsboy came to our house to collect, and everyone was gone to Seattle. He and I talked for a while – he was sixteen then – and while he was talking, he gave me a hug and kiss, and left. Shortly after, he returned and explained he had to finish his collections. We were in my room playing records, etc., and he started to fool around, and that was all I needed to get my cunt hot. In our playing on the bed, he got his hand on my cunt, and that was where I lost all respect. I stripped and let him do what he wanted. My tits were small, but he found a way to suck both. Then he had me lay crossways on my bed, put two pillows under my ass, and had my cunt up high. I could see my cunt lips open up when he spread my legs. When he put his mouth to my cunt and started to suck my clit, I grabbed his head and pulled his head up to my cunt, and as he. sucked, I kept telling him, “Suck, suck harder.” Finally, he came up on top of me and told me he was going to fuck me, and he got his cock up in my cunt, and when he started to fuck, my legs were over his shoulders, and did we fuck. This was our start to fucking. Did he get a look of surprise when Skip came up and licked his cock and nuts while he and I were fucking later on. Skip, Ted, and I are now a threesome for a long time after. When Ted was eighteen, he joined the service and is now making a career of the Air Force.

                  Well, by then, I was thirteen years old and as hot a bitch as could be found. Ted told me to be careful who I fucked, as I could get a disease. When Ted left for training, I was without a fucking partner. One day, I had fantasies about my grandpa and that he fucked me. He lives about ten miles from our house, but visits us often, so I decided to ask Gramps about coming to his house for a day. That worked out, same day I left my panties off after I got to his house (he lives alone), and he soon found out, because I made it a point to let him get a look at my cunt. That afternoon, he told me he was going to give me a bath, as I was needing one. He did, and our sex life began.

                  He sure enjoyed my body, and my tits were becoming big. Well, now it has been ten years, and Gramps and I still have our sex. He taught me cleanliness, hygiene, and care of my period, keeps my cunt shaved, and loves to fuck. He and I go down on each other; he taught me to suck cock. And when he gets a notion he gets a new sex toy, dildo, vibrators, doubleend cocks, so my girl friend and I can stick it into our cunts and play around. Gramps found her when he was at dinner, and she loves to stay as a lesbian. When Gramps comes to our house (Sue and I live together), we sure give him pleasure. He fucks one of us and sucks the other cunt. He has always given both of us the best in fucking, sucking, finger-fucking, vibrator, or, may we say, just a lot of sex fun.

                  Forgot to mention I am a dress designer and do a great deal in designing exotic gowns. Some I design are about as bold as can be to expose titties, ass, and some are designed to expose the cunt. When I do fitting, I have the lady stripped, so I can hold the breasts for measurements or to fit around cunt. Several times I have excited them to a point where they want me to play with the tits and cunt. A few have asked me to strip, and they have gone down on my cunt. Guess my shaved cunt must excite them. Yes, I have sucked a few cunts and tits. Gramps and I are enjoying our sex life. He did not have to ask me to suck his cock, while showering together, I just could not resist taking his cock and sucking it. He invited both of us to go to see Deep Throat, and after we got home, we bet Gramps one of us would be able to take every inch of his huge cock and swallow the head. Well, we surprised him by being able to do just that. Fantasy has never entered my mind. I suppose you could say I live my fantasies as they come into my head.

                  Gramps has fucked us both in the asshole. My roommate had a cousin visit us from San Diego, and what a wild fifteenyear-old she was. She had a cunt on her one-hundred-eightpound body that we shaved and gave her a suck off, and she responded by doing our cunts the same. So, Nancy, guess in my sixteen years, I have had as much of a variety of sex, never wear panties, and love to spread my legs so the guys can get the bulge of a hard cock and then leave.

                  Now use my letter or throw it out, but I know now that women are not only willing to tell their story about the sex they enjoy, but love to read of other cunt action.

                  When Gramps and both of us are in bed we never feel a bit bashful to suck a cunt while being watched.

                  Our dog gets his share and he can lick my cunt as he is doing right now while I am writing. After I get fucked, I love to spread my legs in the shower. I piss a stream anywhere it goes. Gramps sits down in front of me when I piss standing and I piss all over him, and he sucks me dry.

                  Enough said.

                  Fanny

                  I’m sort of caught between two generations. I’m twenty-three years old, this is my second marriage; the first time, I was sixteen and pregnant. The second time, I was nineteen and pregnant (the second time, I didn’t know I was pregnant). As you can see, even though I was brought up that sex was a no-no, and you wait until you were married, I didn’t. When I was fourteen years old, I was raped. Not violently. I knew both of the guys, and one of them I had gone out with for a month or so. I had never let him fuck me, but he had eaten me, and I had eaten him. (He was eighteen, by the way.) One night, I was at a barn dance in Vermont. I guess he was really mad at me, because he thought I had done it with someone else. So he and his friend got me when I went outside to go to the bathroom. I was scared at first, but he kept on saying, “wow, feel this cunt, isn’t this the best cunt you’ve ever felt?” This was before they were inside of me, he was using his fingers and hand. That is where I started getting turned on. Then when he started fucking me, I was lost in sexual pleasure. He kept on talking all the time, saying “wow, you have a really beautiful cunt; I want to take my prick out of you and suck it, but I can’t, it’s too good.” By this time, I was starting to scream with pleasure, and he told his friend to keep his hands over my mouth as there were other people all around us. When he was done, it was his friend’s turn, and believe me, he was just as good. All the time, they were fucking me, they were talking about my tits and cunt, which made me unafraid and enjoy it. Every day I thank him for making my first time so wonderful. I guess that couldn’t be called a fantasy, as it actually happened, but I often think about it, and then I masturbate. I also think that that is why most all of my fantasies make me an exhibitionist. When I was younger, I used to stand in front of my window naked and play with myself, fantasizing that there was a man watching me move my body around, play with my nipples, stick my fingers in and out of my cunt, and whack myself off right there before him, and after I finished, he would come into the house and fuck me. That was when I climaxed.

                  May

                  When I was younger, it was my dog that excited me. This was when I was a virgin. I have fucked my dog (German shepherd) many times though. I always wanted a man’s penis but was chicken, so I laid the dog. I would lay him on his back on the floor and push the sheath of his penis all the way down, so his penis was just loose, and he would suddenly become so hard and growing, that the skin couldn’t move back up. He would even start into motion before I was on him. I would squat over him holding that delicious penis straight up, and then I’d come down on him, and, man, that dog could go like hell, sometimes as long as a half an hour, which is long for a dog. He could come and come … so would I, ummmm…. This I haven’t done since I’ve had intercourse with men, but just thinking about it now makes me wish the dog was around, but someone stole him. I even thought of giving him fellatio, but couldn’t.

                  Isolde

                  Before I get into my fantasy life, let me outline my personal reality. I’m twenty-one years old, married, pregnant, a high school graduate, middle class, and, if it’s important, white. My husband is twenty-five, one year of college, white, and sexy as hell.

                  I have been a topless dancer since I was seventeen, and I can’t remember a time when I wasn’t bisexual curiously enough, only in reality, never in fantasy. Only sometimes I’ll see a sexy girl in Penthouse or Playboy, and wonder what she’d be like in bed.

                  I engaged in sexual intercourse for the first time at thirteen, and have always “played” with myself. I first remember getting caught at five, being told, “Tch, tch, nasty!” I first achieved orgasm at ten. I never came with intercourse until I was fifteen, when a twenty-one-year-old lover taught me the “joy” (God bless him) of oral foreplay.

                  I have fucked, one way or another, over a hundred men and about thirty women, the first being my cousin, when we were eleven. I guess since I thoroughly enjoy being a topless dancer, you could call me an exhibitionist. And my husband loves to watch me dance. I met him when I was eighteen, and there has never been any hassle about my dancing. He realizes I’m very professional about it, and your typical barroom Joe doesn’t turn me on. (We have only been married for eight months.)

                  My husband has been to bed with over two hundred women, and only one man, a gay mutual friend. Even then, it was at my insistence. Our sexuality, and belief that marriage and personal freedom go hand-in-hand have made us perfect for each other.

                  Penelope

                  My earliest memory is when I was probably ten, or eleven. A friend and I had somehow discovered that her family’s electric toothbrush when placed on a certain area, caused mysterious sensations. I didn’t know what I was feeling, but I remember always taking the device off me when the extreme tenseness began. I never continued to what I know now as an orgasm.

                  Lola

                  I was pregnant when I got married at seventeen. But as I’d begn fucking when I was fourteen, I’d had a good’, three years of fun playing around on my own…all of which I owe to my two brothers. One was a year older than me and the other a year younger. What happened was one day they found me messing about quite innocently with some boys at school. They blackmailed me, threatening all sorts of things; they said that if I didn’t go all the way with those boys – and let them watch – they’d, tell our parents what I’d been up to. Since what I’d been up to was far more innocent than what they wanted me to do, I don’t know why I gave in to their threats. I suppose because I quite simply wanted to be fucked. I remember; my brothers standing on the sidelines, instructing the other boys how to “do” me (we were all virgins at that point), and I remember to this day the combination of fear and: excitement that their presence added to what was happening. Although neither of my brothers ever entered me themselves, they do in my fantasies, they always have.

                  After that blackmail episode I used to lie awake at nights, alone in my bed at home, and imagine that my brothers were creeping through the house toward my room. Every sound in the quiet house was like their footsteps. Often I would imagine the two of them coming fore me together. They would get into the bed on either side of me. I remember one night in particular, when I was just past fourteen, when I was lying there, thinking of my oldest brother’s prick – I had, of course, seen it – and imagining it going into me and growing in me. Suddenly I could not seem to control myself, and I was certain that the noise I was making – I was actually whimpering out loudwas bound to wake my parents up. But I put my hand over my mouth – imagining it was my youngest brother, while I masturbated with the other hand – imagining that was my older brother. I seemed to be flogging myself almost into a state of unconsciousness. The more I thought about how wrong the whole act was that I was imagining, the more exciting it became.

                  Sources:

                  https://ia800602.us.archive.org/27/items/MySecretGarden_265/MySecretGarden-NancyFriday.pdf

                  https://ia601605.us.archive.org/17/items/ForbiddenFlowers/ForbiddenFlowers-NancyFriday.pdf

                  My real life experience confirms these accounts.

                • jim says:

                  Yes, flat as a board, not one pubic hair, and riding hard.

                  Boys do not become interested in sex until puberty, and become interested in sex at puberty. There is not much variation in the age at which boys become interested in sex. There is wide variation in the age at which girls become interested in sex. It is not closely linked to physical development, but the mean, the median, and the mode, is that they become interested in sex when they develop their first little peach fuzz pubic hair – which is typically around nine or ten, several years before boys become interested in sex.

                  We will never be able to control women if we accept the principle that any bad thing they do is the man’s fault.

                • Anonymous 2 says:

                  Dear Feminist Playboy,

                  Like every other wholesome American girl, I work as a stripper and has had sex with over a hundred boys and about the same number of girls. In my childhood, I experimented with lesbians, dogs and vigorous incest with cousins, brothers and grandpa. Oral sex is the greatest. Hope this helps!

                • Jack says:

                  anonymous 2,

                  and uncles, don’t forget uncles! and every account reads in exactly the same tempo! and author is a normal wonderful unbiased person, just look!

                  Born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, the daughter of Walter F. Friday and Jane Colbert Friday, Nancy Friday grew up in Charleston, South Carolina, and attended the only local girls’ college-preparatory school, Ashley Hall, where she graduated in 1951.[2] She then attended Wellesley College in Massachusetts, where she graduated in 1955.[3] She worked briefly as a reporter for the San Juan Island Times and subsequently established herself as a magazine journalist in New York, England, and France before turning to writing full-time and publishing her first book, My Secret Garden, in 1973. This book, which compiled interviews of women discussing their sexuality and fantasies, became a bestseller; Friday has regularly returned to the interview format in her subsequent books on themes ranging from mothers and daughters to sexual fantasies, relationships, jealousy, envy, feminism, BDSM, and beauty. She had not written a book since the publication of The Power of Beauty (released in 1996, and then renamed and rereleased in paperback form in 1999)—despite contributing an interview of porn star Nina Hartley to XXX: 30 Porn Star Portraits a book by photographer Timothy Greenfield-Sanderspublished in 2004—until Beyond My Control: Forbidden Fantasies in an Uncensored Age (2009).

                  Throughout the 1980s and early 1990s she was a frequent guest on television and radio programs such as Politically Incorrect, Oprah, Larry King Live, Good Morning America, and NPR’s Talk of the Nation, Friday also has a web site, created in the mid-1990s, to complement the publication of The Power of Beauty. Initially conceived as a forum for development of new work and interaction with her diverse audience, it has not been updated in several years. As of 2005, Friday is currently working on her first novel.

                  what, doesn’t everyone fuck her dog?

                • Cavalier says:

                  Jim, you’re into some weird shit.

                • jim says:

                  No I am not. Whatever gave you that idea?

                  You assume that whenever a girl does something bad, that must be the fault of the nearest male in the vicinity.

                  That is how we got into this mess, presupposing the innate purity and virtue of women and girls.

                  All this weird stuff happened with cousins or sisters of a girl that was preselecting me, so it is not my fault. I was trying to impress the older cousin or sister, not the younger cousin. In one case, a younger, much younger, cousin, attempted to physically interpose herself between us, going for a threesome.

                • Alf says:

                  > In one case, a younger, much younger, cousin, attempted to physically interpose herself between us, going for a threesome.

                  This grabs my attention, don’t know what to say about it. Some twisted casanova shit.
                  – this is pretty much outside my window of experiences. Though by now I believe it to be true.
                  – this is where most men hate reality. Well not really hate, but have problems with coping with their own SMV.

                  For most men, isn’t the presupposition of the innate purity and virtue of girls in fair part genetic? To the extent it is not, re-education seems to be the answer, or rather, un-educating of prog mentality. To the extent it is, requires quite some eugenics..

                • jim says:

                  The alternative to assuming the innate purity of women, is supposing that women do not actually like you much. Which men don’t want to think.

                  But the real nature of women is apparent when someone acts plausibly alpha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Ko6Xfa84w It is not hard to imagine the chicks in that video diving in for a threesome.

                  I play a wealthy vain narcissistic playboy sadistic violent criminal adventurer asshole in front of women. A confrontational bully. It works. They tend to see through me after a while, but while they suspect it might be true, the results are pretty good.

                  In a free for all anything goes sexual marketplace, the great majority of men just don’t get laid, or if they do get laid, only with women who are hitting the wall and getting desperate. The great majority of women are too busy screwing a small minority of men, and the great majority of men are entirely invisible to them.

                  And because the great majority of men just don’t get laid, they attribute improbable chastity to women.

                • Cavalier says:

                  >You assume that whenever a girl does something bad, that must be the fault of the nearest male in the vicinity.

                  I assume that when a female does something like fuck a relative or an animal, or fantasize about fucking a relative or an animal, that this is pathological behavior not normal for, or natural to, most not-common-peasant females.

                  >The alternative to assuming the innate purity of women, is supposing that women do not actually like you much. Which men don’t want to think.

                  I receive the attention of late teens and early twenties, with a few outliers here and there. Experience leads me to believe that people without bad blood and behavioral abnormalities do not begin fucking at the age of 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, or 13. It is disturbing to me that a father might sit his daughter atop his morning wood. It is deeply disturbing to me to read accounts of grandfathers or uncles defiling little girls, and this is evidence to me that there is something deeply wrong with that bloodline.

                  I hold the opinion that late maturers are more human than early maturers. A human male should not appear fully matured before age 27 or 28; a human female should not appear fully matured before age 22 or 23.

                  Late maturers are healthier, smarter, more attractive, and richer, live longer, reproduce at longer intervals, have lower genetic load, and have a striking tendency not to fuck or be fucked or fantasize about being fucked by their animals or their relatives.

                  But hey: maybe people are just different in Greyhoundland.

                • jim says:

                  Incest is obviously pathological and unnatural. But ten year olds humping their older sister’s boyfriend is entirely normal and overwhelmingly common, unless society acts forcefully to prevent it. And by forcefully, I mean restraining the badly behaved girl, not punishing the nearest male in the vicinity.

                • Your Wife's Son says:

                  In times when “children” were given adult responsibilities, they had little trouble filling adult roles. If you marry off a 10 y/o and she becomes a mother at 13 or so, and society supports that, and her and her husband’s extended families provide the young couple with guidance and material assistance and so on — and this is not some far fetched utopia but the state of affairs throughout much of human history — in times like these, things were natural and sustainable.

                  Of course, progressive social engineers have been trying, successfully as it were, to abolish this state of affairs everywhere, starting with their home countries and subsequently spreading their poz abroad to other countries and continents (thereby completely disregarding the findings of HBD).

                  The enlightenment and post-enlightenment thinkers, mostly leftist Frenchmen and puritanical Englishmen, gave people the notion of “childhood” as a period when a human is practically angelic, and also extended this “childhood” period from 7 or 8 to 10, then to 13, and then to 16, and now it’s at 18, and still modern progs want it to be 21 or higher.

                  This is the original progressivism.

                  Late Jewish progressivism is the version everyone furiously hates, because Jews made progressivism explicitly anti-white rather than merely implicitly anti-white, and made it explicitly anti-male rather than merely implicitly anti-male. That’s why many of us are here in the first place, right? Yet reactionaries contend that the rot set in earlier, which it has.

                  I have proposed that the transition from single room occupancy to multiple room occupancy set the stage for the outbreak of sexual progressivism. Well, it’s just one theory among many, but the inescapable conclusion is that things went wrong between 1500 AD and 1800 AD – perhaps the history buffs can say exactly when. Be that as it may, there is something incoherent about the position that “progressivism is wrong about everything, except about this one issue kids being innocent hapless angels.” No. Progressivism is wrong about everything, full stop.

                  The notion of the noble child (who is free of sexual desire) is as true as the notion of the noble savage (who is free of aggressive violence). It’s a lie that prog social engineers told you centuries ago. You can come up with excuses for treating pre-teens as if they were angels, likewise, you can come up with excuses for treating gangsters as if they were good boyz. The excuses don’t persuade me.

                  Chris Brand also had none of this blue pilled nonsense, which is why he said that blacks are less intelligent than whites, that women are deceitful, that 12-year-olds are sexual beings, and that academia is full of communist Jews. He was correct on all accounts.

                  Guess which one of these thoughtcrimes got him fired from Edinburgh University?

                • Cavalier says:

                  >but the inescapable conclusion is that things went wrong between 1500 AD and 1800 AD

                  So what did happen between 1500 and 1800 AD, anyway?

                  * Science!
                  * The advent of mail
                  * The Republic of Letters
                  * The white man’s conquest of the planet
                  * The Industrial Revolution
                  * People start washing regularly
                  * People stop emptying their chamber pots into the street
                  * Men start wearing the lounge suit
                  * The population of India doubles
                  * The number of New Englanders multiplies by over 300 (Jim)
                  *

                • Cavalier says:

                  >but the inescapable conclusion is that things went wrong between 1500 AD and 1800 AD

                  So what did happen between 1500 and 1800 AD, anyway?

                  * Science!
                  * The advent of mail
                  * The Republic of Letters
                  * The white man’s conquest of the planet
                  * The Industrial Revolution
                  * People start washing regularly
                  * People stop emptying their chamber pots into the street
                  * Men start wearing the lounge suit
                  * The population of India doubles
                  * The number of New Englanders multiplies by over 300 (Jim)
                  * And some other stuff probably

                • Pseudo-chrysostom says:

                  As a general rule…
                  If people can afford to make bad decisions, they will.

                  Beings only get just smart enough to invent civilization in the environment they find themselves in.

                  The invention of civilization, and further development of civilization, changes the ‘environment’ selection of qualities that led to the invention and developments of civilization.

                  Greater surplus capital affords greater insulation from the law of nature or natures god.

                  So remoted from the immediacy of the copybook headings, it becomes incumbent on man himself to consciously step in as an avatar, conduit, medium for divine judgement.

                  Heretofore, man has so often stumbled in this regard.

                • Your Wife's Son says:

                  >So what did happen between 1500 and 1800 AD, anyway?

                  What’s your point? We all know that plenty of amazingly good stuff happened during this time period, all while the seeds of the modern peril were being sown. To quote Death’s Misanthrope:

                  From above and around
                  Observations are collected
                  Knowledge is taken in by curious life forms
                  That may bring hope from beyond
                  Beneath the giver of life, our sun
                  An examination of another kind is done

                  A view from those who stood high
                  And breathing the sky
                  An opinion from below and from above

                  Some were decided, some were not
                  A few looked away, but none forgot

                  Misanthrope
                  Hater of all mankind
                  There is some hope
                  For those who own their mind
                  They came, they saw and acknowledged
                  Some good, some bad
                  Opinion: dangerous

                  Stay where you are, don’t get consumed
                  By what they created from sheer neglet
                  In denial of years and years of
                  Shattered souls
                  That were lost to the power of
                  Fragile, frightful minds

                  A view from those who stood high
                  And breathing the sky
                  An opinion from below and from above

                  Some were decided, some were not
                  A few looked away, but none forgot

                • Your Wife's Son says:

                  >I hold the opinion that late maturers are more human than early maturers.

                  Don’t yellows mature later than whites, in the same way that whites mature later than blacks?

                  >Late maturers are healthier, smarter, more attractive, and richer, live longer

                  I’ve read some studies, they were inconclusive.

                  >reproduce at longer intervals

                  How is that a good thing? Shorter intervals = higher TFR.

          • Rape says:

            I’m just surprised that girls as young as 8 know how to get on the darknet.

            • Your Wife's Son says:

              What often happens is that the young girls present their stuff on designated platforms on the clearnet, people who are not 8-year-old-girls take downloads and screenshots, then content is promptly removed from the clearnet, and later resurfaces on the darknet. The girls need not use TOR or I2P or whatever, but they do know exactly where to go to upload or livestream their stuff.

              Once you see enough of it with your own eyes, which you can do risk-free in Eastern Europe for instance, the illusion of the “noble child” pops like a soap bubble.

            • Your Wife's Son says:

              And to be clear, these are some pretty hardcore materials that the girls produce. Not just “fleshing (non-existent) titties” or something on that level – way, way more hardcore. Think scat, dog sex, etc. No adult involvement needed.

              (Inb4 “muh pedo”: not saying I’ve watched it or have enjoyed watching it, plainly describing what there *is* to watch)

        • Mister Grumpus says:

          I love you man.

      • Reluctant Dissident says:

        Obviously you’re right that the arbitrary lines are being drawn in a “point deer make horse” kind of way. I agree entirely.

        Nevertheless when irrational arbitrary laws are in place, their enforcement is equally arbitrary and in this case the lead actor was getting too uppity so he, and the stupid upstart company that enabled him, had to go.

        Don’t get me wrong, I’m not setting Netflix (or HoC) up as some anti-establishment counter-revolutionary rebellion. All I’m saying is it seems funny to me that people who mock the Clintons tend to do poorly in the long run.

      • john says:

        The problem with Kevin is that he is a Sodomite which attempted to destroying the male youth via spreading his sodomic tendencies.

      • Corvinus says:

        Cloudswrest–“It wouldn’t surprise me if someday they raised the minimum age of consent to 30 years old.”

        Your handle should be “head in the clouds”. Who has made this proposal? How much traction will it receive? What trends suggest this course of action looms on the horizon?

    • Your Wife's Son says:

      It’s just so… tiring. Here is conman Alex Jones’ narrative:

      “Records show that alleged child molester Kevin Spacey flew on the infamous ‘Lolita Express’ – the private jet owned by pedophile Jeffrey Epstein – along with former President Bill Clinton.

      The revelation has resurfaced in the aftermath of claims by actor Anthony Rapp that Spacey sexually assaulted him when he was a 14-year-old boy after a party at Spacey’s apartment in 1986 when Spacey, then 24, picked up Rapp, placed him on his bed and climbed on top of him.

      Clinton chose to continue his association with Epstein even after, according to the Alliance to Rescue Victims of Trafficking, “everyone within his inner circles knew was a pedophile.”

      While there is no evidence to suggest Spacey engaged in criminal activity while on board Epstein’s jet, his admission that he sexually assaulted a 14-year-old boy is sure to provoke further questions.”

      https://www.infowars.com/kevin-spacey-flew-on-lolita-express-with-bill-clinton/

      This over-the-top pedohysteria will just go on and on and on, and will only escalate in severity, until the Slavs, the Gooks, and the Mohammedans put an end to it, each group in its own sphere of influence, sometime around 2065.

      We are going through a singularity of pedohysteria. You better start believing in holiness spirals – you’re in one.

  8. Pooch says:

    Paul Manafort forwarded one such request to his deputy Rick Gates, saying “We need someone to communicate that (Trump) is not doing these trips. It should be someone low-level in the campaign so as not to send any signal.”

    Trump is fucked.

    • peppermint says:

      …which has nothing to do with the indictment. Are you blackpilled, a Boomer, posting in bad faith, or all three?

      Obviously the clueless “Deep State” bureaucrat, judge, jpurnalist, academic boomers think they’re going to get Trump, and obviously they will play it up on their news channels. Rumor has it some journalist said some source said they have sealed indictments on Trump.

      Remember: these people are self-indulgent liars. The first lie of the Boomer is to himself.

      • Jack says:

        You know most Boomers didn’t wallow in the mud at Woodstock.

        • R7 Rocket says:

          Is this a butthurt boomer I see?

          • Jack says:

            Well not every one wants to find themselves in the middle of the biggest get together of Catholics Jews and misc prolls ever. If i did it over though yeah I’d go if just to laugh at the dirty hippies.

        • Contaminated NEET says:

          Maybe so, but all Boomers wish they had. No exceptions.

          • Boomer McBoom-Boom says:

            Not this boomer. When I got back for Fall semester in 1969, I thought all the morons raving about Woodstock were retarded, and I still do.

            • VOX COYOTE says:

              This boomer wanted to desert, go home, and help the National guard with commie college students. Reads like “fuck you, die now Dad” is hip with edgy alt-righters as well as the Che-worshipers. Satan rejoices, Jim Morrison burns in Hell.

              • Contaminated NEET says:

                When Dad has sold the farm and wasted the family fortune on hedonism and telescopic philanthropy, then “fuck you, Dad,” is the appropriate response. Even you supposedly-right-wing “based” Boomers can’t let any criticism of your monstrous generation of locusts pass without piping up about NABALT. Boomers gonna boom (at least until Generalissimo Peppermint’s death-commandos start parting your carcasses out for organ harvest and animal feed).

  9. Zach says:

    Totally off topic, but what is the best bible version? From scant research I’m getting that this is:

    New English Translation
    https://bible.org/netbible/index.htm

    …but I’m also figuring that anything with “new” and “english” is already a red flag.

    • peppermint says:

      I’m all for denying cuckoldry the grandeur of the KJV, but until a proper anti-Semitic translation is made, KJV is the normative English version everyone expects and arguments about translation need to be done with reference to the original text. Also the Bible is only normative if you acknowledge the Councils, which means you don’t actually think much of the Bible itself and would prefer to read Aquinas. Also Aquinas was fundamentally writing for a false model of the universe. How many gravitons can dance on the head of a pen? In principle as many as want to, but they tend to spread out.

      • jim says:

        Well, obviously Aquinas lacked the benefits of modern science and the modern scientific worldview, but does this make his model “fundamentally false”.

        What is wrong with the model employed by Aquinas?

        • peppermint says:

          Chauvinistic anthropocentrism in which these traits are shared with angels and those with animals and then we babble about souls all day instead of comparing our behavior to the behaviors of the other animals.

          He goes on and on about his view on the problem of evil through every discussion of human behavior, which is, of course, not directly compared with animal behavior.

          Since animals and noble savages lack the capacity for certain sins, that makes them better than nazi anime trolls who wallow in sin.

          It is not a mistake that the French Revolution and Latin America happened under Catholicism.

      • Zach says:

        And where should one start with Aquinas, as it pertains to The Bible? I just finished The Bible. A fun read.

    • Carlylean Restorationist says:

      KJV will give you the beautiful language that matches the old bible epics, the old hymns and the way the bible’s referenced in literature.
      Obviously as with any ancient text, you’ll have to read between the lines a lot of the time, and it’s not a good idea to read any part in isolation or too literally.
      That said, the gist is very, very clear: Christ was a reactionary who was sick to the back teeth of the Pharisees’ hypocritical narcissism. He said He came to fulfil the law, not to overturn it (meaning all the OT strictures, thereby implicitly endorsing the judgements of Sodom and so on) and in terms of His metaphysics, He said that religion is about Truth and conforming to nature.
      The rest is spiritual musing, and extremely helpful spiritual musing at that.

      The NT also helps in these interesting times, telling us when to shitpost and when to keep schtumm.

      • glosoli says:

        He also died on the cross for all of humanity’s sins, then rose again on the third day, conquering death, as we all can when we die, through His sacrifice.

        I wouldn’t call Christ a reactionary though, just a speaker of truth to those who are evil. That alone is enough to create some significant reactions of course.

        • Joe says:

          I ask this with all due respect to your Christian beliefs, and I know this is off-topic and opens a big can of worms – but does it ever strike you as a little strange that God would require what is essentially a human sacrifice for “sins” which are committed by human beings who were created the way they are by God? What is the sense in creating beings who can only have abilities/thoughts/impulses that you gave them the ability to have, and then punishing them with eternal damnation for acting on those impulses unless a human sacrifice is offered up? Does that sort of a-human-sacrifice-is-required belief system ever strike you as sort of primitive and hard to buy into?

          I have had my own spiritual experiences which convinced me that there is consciousness beyond the death of the body, so I’m no atheist. But my take on Christ was that he was a man who became enlightened, experiencing the oneness of all that is (“I and the Father are one”), and tried explaining it to his Jewish, first-century followers, who more or less completely misunderstood what he was saying.

          • peppermint says:

            》Why would God sacrifice himself to himself to change his rules?

            What happened was, the kikes told the boomers that having sex with animals is good, divorce is good, marriage is bad, beauty is bad, sordid one-off lifeless sex acts are good, and everyone actually wants to and does sex outside of marriage. This is the jew as the accuser, the jew accuses humanity of being no better than a nigger, and humanity having given up its faith in its heritage believed it. Trump came to the boomers as one of them and by His example showed them the folly of their ways, and verily they hated Him and cursed Him and conspired to destroy He who alone was righteous amongst them, because they would be ashamed to know that He loved them.

            • Your Wife's Son says:

              What happened was that up until 2015 there had been growing a real counterculture on the internet, then a bunch of trolls got “cuckservative” trending which gave them a false sense of triumphalism, then Trump announced he’s running for POTUS and everyone developed severe amnesia about all that they had been thinking prior to that moment. Slowly the amnesia wears off and like agonized monkeys people fall down from the tree of optimism, landing on sore butts.

            • Your Wife's Son says:

              It is suggested that the countdown of the dissident right’s ticking time bomb was commenced by Trump’s primaries campaign, but actually it started with the “cuckservative” meme, because this meme got people thinking that they are winning the culture war, when they really aren’t. Up until then it had been clear that Cthulhu is swimming steadily or even acceleratingly left, but then when this meme made a bunch of journos flip their lids the alt-righters felt that “the situation can be reversed,” which delusion has been “confirmed” later on by the rise of Trump.

              The fuse is lit and the counterculture will explode as expected, because the ancient Greeks were right about “hubris.”

              /blackpilling

          • Carlylean Restorationist says:

            Nobody here can really give you sound theological advice.

            The core of Christendom is the Ten Commandments and the mindset of justice and truth.
            The rest is imagery, which in no way means it isn’t literally true: it is literally true.

            The point is, you can equivocate and meditate and vacillate and flip-flop as much as you want: so long as you follow the Law, you’re moving toward God. Generally speaking, the rest will tend to follow, and as long as you repent your *sins*, you’re very much heading in the right direction.

            • peppermint says:

              The core of Christendom is emphatically not the Ten Commandments which denominations can’t agree about. It is the Seven Deadly Sins, reason, appetites and passions, and the grace of Providence calling us to listen to reason and live in harmony with Creation and the Creator.

              Ten Commandments was siezed on as a catch phrase when God died, and some filthy rat academics replaced reason, passions, and appetites with superego, ego, and id, and replaced Providence with the moral arc of history, and love of God with love of niggers.

              Without university men, our culture would have adapted to the death of God differently. The challenge of the Alt-Right is to explain how else our culture could have adapted by example.

              • Carlylean Restorationist says:

                That works too. Either way, thieving, covetousness, lechery and so on (ie. Leftism) is out, and whatever else is left is in.

                I don’t give a flying fuck whether people worship the Santa Claus God of the Americans, the Poz-God of the Europeans or the scary badass God of Charles The Hammer, so long as they have a healthy horror of thieving, covetousness and lechery.

                The Poz-God of the Europeans is failing on that front right now, which makes him the worst choice. The fact he’s the God of all the European churches raises the distinct possibility that it’s deliberate.

                Does that mean we should avoid churches? Not at all: you go not for yourself and not even for God: you go to show the other genuine believers there that they’re not alone.

          • glosoli says:

            @Joe,

            I was an atheist for 49 years, then sent an email to a new acquaintance where I mentioned that if there was a God, I would like nothing more than if He revealed himself to me, then 5 weeks later I had a supernatural experience, then a few months later, another one. And all manner of strange things since, all good.

            Given the recency of my faith, I will do my best to explain what I think Jesus’ sacrifice means.

            God made us to be like Him (with souls and with free will). He gave us the earth and its riches, and He clearly loved us when He created everything, but made only us in His image.

            Sadly, but not surprisingly, we did something stupid in the garden of Eden, and so death and sin entered into the world.

            I don’t think God punished anyone with death and eternal damnation, rather it a fact that sin and evil cannot exist in God’s presence.

            Because God loves us so much, He sent His Son to earth to minister to us, and to offer salvation to all who sought it.

            I don’t view the sacrifice of Jesus as a ‘human sacrifice’, but as something far more impressive. The Father allowed His own Son to feel forsaken on the cross and to suffer under all of the sins the world had ever known, or would ever know. He did it (once again) because He loves us and wants us with Him in heaven. He knows we can never get there on our own merits (since the Fall), so He did what He had to do to save us. Then, being God, He showed that He can also conquer death, as shall we.

            There’s not much more noble in life than self-sacrifice. Whether it be charity, or fighting/dying for one’s tribe, or donating a kidney to a stranger. Every time we see examples of noble sacrifice, we feel awe.

            What God did for us with Jesus was the most noble sacrifice imaginable, far from primitive.

            I don’t think Jesus’ followers misunderstood Him at all. They saw Him resurrected, heard his teachings, and spread the word, and most died for their mission. Why would they do that if He was just an enlightened man?

            Nope, He was the Son of God, sent to save us.

            • Samuel Skinner says:

              “There’s not much more noble in life than self-sacrifice. Whether it be charity, or fighting/dying for one’s tribe, or donating a kidney to a stranger. Every time we see examples of noble sacrifice, we feel awe.”

              I’m going to have to disagree. While alot of current European behavior is virtue signaling, there is still self sacrifice; the issue is it is socially destructive.

              I don’t have an answer to ethics.

              “I don’t think Jesus’ followers misunderstood Him at all. They saw Him resurrected, heard his teachings, and spread the word, and most died for their mission. Why would they do that if He was just an enlightened man?”

              ‘Jews are on the wrong path and we need to correct it or else society is going to self destruct and/or the Romans will kill us all’ is something they’d be willing to get as many people on board as possible to fix?

              • glosoli says:

                Europe is attempted genocide of white Europeans by the elites, not self-sacrifice.

                Christianity has spread mostly in gentile lands, so your second point is incoherent.

                • Samuel Skinner says:

                  “Europe is attempted genocide of white Europeans by the elites, not self-sacrifice.”

                  They are perfectly willing to sacrifice their own flesh and blood; there was a case of a European elite whose daughter was raped and murdered by a refugee who proceeded to forgive them and attempted to raise funds to help refugees at the funeral.

                  If you don’t think that guy really counts, look at Muslim suicide bombers or communists. They’ve both had plenty of martyrs while still being evil.

                  “Christianity has spread mostly in gentile lands, so your second point is incoherent.”

                  We are talking about the apostles. During their lifetime, Jews were spread throughout the entire Roman world. Since Jesus had spent his time in Israel and got killed, the next step would be to talk to those other Jewish communities.

                • glosoli says:

                  I disagree re Europe. Elites and (((‘they’))) does not equal European self-sacrifice.

                  In the bible, Acts shows that the word was spread far beyond Jewish communities.

  10. Glenfilthie says:

    Nobody’s going to jail. If Hillary and Bill can do what they do and avoid the pen, Trump has nothing to worry about. The American public will not stand for it.
    This is a distraction. Don’t watch their lips move, watch their hands very, very carefully. And keep an eye on your six too.

    • Corvinus says:

      “Nobody’s going to jail.”

      A sawbuck says you are dead wrong. Mueller and company are playing 4D chess here. But keep playing checkers, that is your speed.

      • jim says:

        The ultimate objective is “presidents should be subject to the rule of law”, which is to say, it should be possible for some judge no one has ever heard of to issue an arrest warrant for Trump, and expect it to be carried out without civil war ensuing.

        Just google up all the mainstream media references to “rule of law”.

    • Contaminated NEET says:

      You think the same rules apply to Trump as to Bill and Hill? What could possibly have given you that idea?

  11. […] week: his usual update on the weird world of Trump. Drawing on Chinese history, Jim explains that Mueller points deer, makes horse. Point deer, make horse is one of those neat Chinese phrases that is bound up in awesome Chinese […]

  12. […] will use plastic or cash still — but instead a postmodern humiliation: we will be required to point deer say horse. I am speculating, but it is more likely to be a mark that says we are part of the loyal narrative, […]

  13. Your Wife's Son says:

    Came across this on DS:

    http://dstormer6em3i4km.onion/hoaxfare-judge-moore-accused-of-making-out-with-a-14-year-old-girl-decades-ago/

    “Judge Moore Accused of Making Out with a 14-Year-Old Girl Decades Ago”

    This while everyone in Hollywood is accused of “pedophilia” (more like pederasty) now, too. Basically, I was right about this issue, and I can predict with absolute, 100% certainty, that you are going to see more and more of this shit, and in fact, pedo-hysteria will become one of the biggest ideological currents of the early and middle 21st century; it has now become the fourth wave of feminism.

    I had predicted this *before* things got so explosive, and all the more so, I predict it now. Cthulhu has found a new ideology.

    Hyperbolically speaking, if you will ever so much as think sexual thoughts about anyone below 16, you’ll be zapped. Of course, things will — in reality — have fallen apart long before that stage. All the while though, deluded people will keep screeching that “the elites are going to legalize penetrative sex with little babies every day now.” Lol.

    Enjoy the PSYOPs.

    • Your Wife's Son says:

      The funny — that is: sad — thing is that for the next few years, what I’m saying will be dismissed and disregarded as the obsessive rants of a tinfoil pedophile… and then, after that, when the pedophilia mass hoax completely overshadows the rape mass hoax (you know, the one that “spontaneously” kicked off in the 1990s, and has been imploding lately because people no longer buy into it, thus necessitating the manufacturing of a new bogeyman), when, at last, “pedophile” becomes the new “rapist,” the understanding will dawn even on the dimwitted that this insanity is both dangerous and deliberate.

      CIA / Five Eyes did Pizzagate.

      – – –

      What people need to understand is that a spy is meant to blend in, not stick out. That principle applies to online interactions and online campaigns just as well. If someone is going to produce a psyop against you, he will make sure that you will NOT suspect that you are being psyops’d; indeed, he will engage in a sort of “double play,” and convince you that you are the one who is in superior control of the situation. One of the most important links I can give you is this one:

      http://www.statewatch.org/news/2015/jun/behavioural-science-support-for-jtrigs-effects.pdf

      Just read the damn thing. Just fucking read it. Or, if you have nigger brains and can’t be arsed to read 42 pages even though your wife’s son asked you so politely to do so, go over this presentation:

      https://edwardsnowden.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/the-art-of-deception-training-for-a-new.pdf

      Especially, focus your attention on the 3 consequent “ACNO Key Skill Strands” slides, and on the “Gambits For Deception” slide (extremely important). The “Attention” row really carves itself into you mnemonically:

      “The big move covers the little move.”

      “The target looks where you look.”

      “Repetition reduces vigilance.”

      It’s brilliant. These tricks are further explained here:

      https://mindhacks.com/2014/06/28/a-spooks-guide-to-the-psychology-of-deception/

      and, following a link on that article, here (discussing criminals rather than glow-in-the-darks):

      http://webs.comm.virginia.edu/Grazioli/Vita/pubs/Under%20Target%20on%20line%20CACM%202003.pdf

      If you don’t understand how these things are related to what’s going on right now on the internet and in particular on the alt-right, you are just clueless, mate. In that case, you need autistic, obsessive, absolutely mad people like me to research these things out for you, but people shy away from my overall arguments because they dislike the conclusions. It unsettles the ego to admit that you have been psyops’d.

      – – –

      This is what Sun Tzu famously said:

      18. All warfare is based on deception.

      19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when
      using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we
      must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away,
      we must make him believe we are near.

      The Bible contains verses confirming this wisdom.

      – – –

      “Oh no, YWS. You surely must be mistaken. I am worried about PEDOBEAR taking over society because, well, umm… it’s totally spontaneous on my part… I had not even thought about it three years ago, but then suddenly I became extremely worried about it, due to… uhh, my own independent thinking??”

      Need I say more?

    • Your Wife's Son says:

      In the interest of having these links all in one place, let me add:

      https://theintercept.com/document/2014/07/14/jtrig-tools-techniques/

      Also, let me mention that the spooks published a fake news article about Australian police *running* a CP website to entrap “offenders.” It was full of lies and its purpose was “deterrence.” The fake news phenomenon is real and the spooks are behind it.

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