Wu Flu, manufactured crisis, real deaths.

Wu Flu is off topic for this blog. But the corruption of science is on topic. Hostile and treasonous elite conduct is on topic. And we are seeing no end of both in the Wu Flu crisis.

The big question is: Is Wu Flu just yet another new flu, worse than most, less bad than some, with a death rate around 0.1% or less, or is it something considerably more serious, with a death rate around 1% or more?

And we are seeing a pile of compelling evidence, for example New York City, that it is 1% or more, and a pile of compelling evidence, for example most of the rest of America, and a great many countries around the world, that it is 0.1% or less. We also see that the elites are not happy with the evidence that it is 0.1% or less – for example they took down the Dr Erickson video. They want it to be 1% or more.

so what explains this mysteriously massively discrepant evidence? Why is it so?

When a dangerous disease is going around the normal response is to lockdown the sick, not the healthy, that you quarantine those infected or suspected of infection and turn away strangers and outsiders. The sick and travelers temporarily lose their civil rights, but life goes on as normal for everyone else. That was the spontaneous mass response to Ebola. It is what people have always done for over a thousand years, because it works. Peoples, elites, and authorities have often responded to extremely serious plagues with extremely severe travel restrictions but no one has ever locked down the healthy, even in response to very serious diseases such as Ebola that were obviously far more deadly.

Some governments responded to the disease by imposing quarantine on carriers and plausibly suspected carriers. The East Asians simply locked them up, the Australian and New Zealand government imposed “voluntary” quarantine – and if you do not “volunteer” with sufficient enthusiasm, they lock you up even if you are a big star and very important person and have very important things to do.

Places that impose quarantine on carriers have only a minor problem. But strangely in many places, we are seeing drastic measures imposed on the normal population, while carriers are free to cough all over the subway and are forced into old people’s homes. Where governments have acted vigorously and effectively to quarantine and treat the sick, where governments do what has been done for well over a thousand years in response to plagues, Wu Flu has caused very little sickness and death, irrespective of whether they imposed lockdown or not, South Korea being the most dramatic example.

We have had millenia of travel blockades and quarantines in response to pandemics, and they have worked. We have never had a lockdown of the healthy, and it is not working.

And where governments do not very much want the death rate to 1% or higher, we are not seeing anything like 1% or higher.

Exhibit number one for an extremely seriously death rate is New York city, where the government forces Wu Flu patients into old folks homes, and people with a fever are free to cough all over the subway. In much of the world, there is a guard at the door of every major shopping center who points a thermometer gun at your head to check you for fever, but in New York City, which is exhibit A for Wu Flu being a serious disease with a high death rate: We saw Cuomo deliberately send coronona virus into old people’s homes, knowing the death rate is more like 70% in an old people’s home – but not however for old people being cared for by their families.

The CEO of a hard-hit Brooklyn nursing home, where 55 patients have died from the coronavirus, told The Post last week that he’d been warning state Health Department officials for weeks he had staffing and equipment issues — yet received little help.

“There is no way for us to prevent the spread under these conditions,’’ the head of the Cobble Hill Health Center, Donny Tuchman, wrote in an e-mail to the department on April 8.

He said he asked to move some patients to the makeshift wards at Manhattan’s Javits Center and aboard the city-docked USNS Comfort amid the pandemic, only to be told those two spots were receiving only patients from hospitals.

“I made specific requests to transfer patients, and it didn’t happen,’’ Tuchman told The Post. “There weren’t options.”

Hydroxychloroquine is being widely blocked. To be effective, has to be given before the lungs are adversely affected. Impaired lungs can lead to low oxygen levels of which the patient is unaware, resulting in cascading organ failure if some of his other organs are a bit on the marginal side and even if the corona virus goes away before he dies, which it often does. If you have two marginal organs, and then you have a third marginal organ, you are apt to get cascading organ failure. And if you have several marginal organs, you are a lot more likely to get cascading organ failure in an unpleasant and hostile alien environment where you have no control, than in a pleasant and supportive home environment where you have substantial influence and control.

And, similarly ventilators.  If someone has a bunch of marginal organs, and you stick him on a ventilator, he will very likely die from the ventilator, irrespective of oxygen levels.  We know that oxygen masks are way better for people that are conscious and alert.

It is absolutely obvious that some people very much want this to be a dire crisis, and are prepared to take drastic action to make sure that it actually is a dire crisis.

Remember the much promised alarming shortage of hospital beds.  Notice that we have quarantine for the healthy, not the sick. The USNS comfort was intended as a hospital and quarantine center and it is not being used because Cuomo wants people who are coughing up corona virus to ride the subways.

New York is indeed having a death rate closer to 1%, and we see ample evidence that the New York government wants a death rate closer to 1%.

That is what explains the discrepancy.

When someone is already frail, and you would prefer that they died, it is easy to make sure that they do. With the best will in the world, iatrogenic death is a huge problem, and we have been seeing a great deal of the worst will in the world.

Rt over all America has been dropping independent of lockdown, which seems to have small effect, probably for the reasons given in the Dr Erickson video. Therefore, except perhaps in Wyoming, we are getting a significant fraction of the population immune, at least among the superspreader subpopulations, such as homeless and subway riders, and we have not been getting 1% of a significant fraction of the population dying, except in states and cities where it is absolutely obvious that the the government wants a significant fraction of the population to die. We have a plague of state sponsored iatrogenic deaths, not a plague of yet another new flu.

The old and the frail are most at risk, partly because flu always kills the old and the frail, and mostly because old people separated from home and kin are extremely vulnerable to iatrogenic mistreatment. Some years ago I was detained against my will in a very unpleasant hospital, on the grounds that my vital signs needed to be continually monitored, until I managed to arrange to have myself transferred to a much nicer hospital, where I actually received useful and effective treatment in a pleasant environment while my vital signs were being monitored in a polite, pleasant, respectful, and unobtrusive fashion. If I had been frail, would have been at risk of iatrogenic injury or death in the unpleasant hospital.

If we look at who is dying and where they are dying, the big risk factor is a state system that wants you to die, and health problems that make you vulnerable to being killed iatrogenically. The distribution of deaths indicates the primary cause of death is not disease, but the biggest killer of the twentieth century: Government.

San Francisco has the same risk factors as New York City; crowding, dirt, public transport, and homelessness; and yet there is an enormous difference in the death rate. Both have comparable levels of Wu Flu among superspreader subpopulations. One place is generating stats consistent with a 1% death rate and grossly inconsistent with a 0.1% death rate, the other place is generating stats grossly inconsistent with a 1% death rate, and consistent with a death rate considerably lower than 0.1%.

Why does the the New York government send old people sick with corona virus into old people’s homes, when the USS Comfort sits empty?

The government want to atomize, to “socially distance” groups that it hates and fears: Observe white get busted for surfing and going for a walk in the park, while non asian minorities have no problem throwing big parties. Observe orthodox Jews get the stick, while progressive Jews and Muslims are fine.

Wu Flu is an opportunity and justification for locking down people you fear and dislike, and, in some places such as New York City, an opportunity for killing off groups you fear and dislike, hence the seemingly discrepant facts on death rates. Cuomo is refusing to send people to facilities that he does not have authority over, where he cannot make sure that they will die.

282 Responses to “Wu Flu, manufactured crisis, real deaths.”

  1. awaes says:

    As of today, UK has lost about 0.1% of its population to SARS-2. If they conduct a seroprevalence study, it will turn out that ~10% are infected.

    Serological data from France and Spain also point to about 1% IFR. Italy, NYC, same.

    So if you let it rip without masks, expect 0.7% overall fatality. With masks, maybe half that.

    One to two million dead in the US when all is said and done. Can Trump get reelected with such numbers? Will he take his chances? I don’t know, but I think markets are absurdly optimistic right now.

    • R7 Rocket says:

      @awaes

      Fake numbers

      • aswaes says:

        Check out weekly registered deaths for England and Wales, released by Office for National Statistics.

        As of May 1, 48k extra deaths compared to 10 year average. Extrapolating to the entire UK and comparing with official SARS-2 deaths announced on wikipedia, they’re consistently undercounting by a factor of 1.7 to 1.9. Similar to other places.

    • Jan Martense says:

      One to two million dead in the US when all is said and done. Can Trump get reelected with such numbers? Will he take his chances? I don’t know, but I think markets are absurdly optimistic right now.

      The one saving grace is that Biden reacted even more slowly than Trump did to the virus, I don’t think he even mentioned it until February. Especially in regards to travel bans, which should have been a no-brainer, Biden looks pretty bad. If he can emphasize his quicker response, Trump might end up ok. Pointing out the effective HCQ use in Italy is also a good move.

      Unfortunately the small fraction of Trump supporters who have these delusions that the virus is “just the flu” are being weaponized by the left as representing the administration’s actual response, which is totally false. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of these ideas are actually Democrat psyops.

      • The Cominator says:

        Anyone not taking the skeptic position on the virus is a shill.

        You are also implying that the skeptics are shills.

        • Pooch says:

          It’s completely analogous to climate change.

          • R7 Rocket says:

            @Pooch

            The only difference is that viruses are easily testable. And the Fauci “pandemic” models were easily tested and were revealed to be fake. Fake and gay.

            • Pooch says:

              It’s rather depressing Trump is shilling so hard for a vaccine now. Wu flu is no different than any other flu so who gives a shit about the vaccine except for the Cathedral? What the hell is he doing?

        • Jan Martense says:

          “You are also implying that the skeptics are shills.”

          Nah bruh, I don’t think you’re a shill. Just that you’ve taken shill bait.

          “Analogous to climate change”

          Its more like the Moon Landing hoaxers, it requires appealing to some kind of vast global conspiracy with millions of people, whereas climate change is just based on shitty interpretation of data.

          • R7 Rocket says:

            @Jan Martense

            Why should anyone take you seriously on these matters?

            You actually thought that Mars was just like Vermont and Alaska.

            • Jan Martense says:

              “You actually thought that Mars was just like Vermont and Alaska.”

              Coming from the guy who compared Martian colonists to 7th century Arab goat-herders?

              Next to your example, even saying Mars is like Vermont was unironically brilliant and insightful.

              • R7 Rocket says:

                @Jan Martense

                I compared Elon Musk to Muhammad and Joseph Smith. I know space baffles you, just admit it and accept its outside your box.

      • aswaes says:

        Jan,

        Yeah, I honestly don’t know how the public would respond (regarding elections) in case of an extra million dead before November. Maybe some would pretend to be outraged but on average people wouldn’t care that much? I don’t know the answer to Trump’s dilemma: forgo the possibility of swift economic recovery, or bet that people won’t care that much about a million dead. I think even if you let it rip to be done with it as soon as possible, it would take some time to shake off the demoralizing effect of a million dead.

        In any case, governments that don’t have the luxury of printing money will have to open up soon. Then Trump won’t look too bad compared to their 100s of thousands.

        As for ‘just the flu’ crew. Yes, this was very blackpilling to me. Many of our guys are as epistemically incompetent as the left is.

        • R7 Rocket says:

          @aswaes

          You know that the death numbers are made up (man falls on head, oh look! COVID19 antibodies… obviously he died of COVID19… Truck runs over a man…).

          Is it time for a RedPill on Women test for you?

          • aswaes says:

            Look, these are the raw weekly death (all cause) numbers in England and Wales for the last 11 years up to this year:

            Week13 Week14 Week15
            8,004 9,756 9,892
            9,312 9,557 9,327
            9,634 8,520 9,992
            9,280 10,890 12,147
            9,622 9,944 9,504
            10,493 9,062 10,089
            10,286 11,599 11,417
            10,027 9,939 8,493
            9,941 10,794 12,301
            9,867 10,126 10,291
            11,141 16,387 18,516

            Week16 Week17 Week18
            9,449 9,503 8,343
            8,335 8,064 9,853
            10,816 10,238 9,957
            11,752 10,625 10,169
            8,000 9,359 10,527
            11,639 10,599 10,134
            10,925 10,413 9,137
            9,644 10,908 9,064
            11,223 10,306 10,153
            9,025 10,059 11,207
            22,351 21,997 17,953

            These are the z scores for this year’s weeks, starting from week 13:
            w13= 2.14; w14= 7.05; w15= 6.59; w16= 8.96; w17= 14.32; w18= 9.93

            Do you grasp what 14 fucking sigma means?
            When you say stupid shit like “he died with SARS-2 not of SARS-2”, you reveal your statistical incompetence.

            • R7 Rocket says:

              @aswaeas

              All faked. As Jim said, “if one lies, all lies.” When a man with COVID19 antibodies gets run over by a truck and the institution lists the death as “COVID19” instead of “run over by a truck,” that institution’s numbers cannot be trusted.

              Again, your lying numbers are fake and gay.

              • Steve Johnson says:

                Those are all cause deaths you fucking imbecile. Your “with not of” has zero to do with that.

                • R7 Rocket says:

                  @Steve Johnson

                  All bullshit and fake from institutions that were caught lying. I wonder why you still believe them now?

                • Steve Johnson says:

                  Are those fake dead people off living on a farm with the flight 77 passengers?

                • R7 Rocket says:

                  @Steve Johnson

                  You can argue your communist-style lockdown on Jim’s “Lockdown” post now.

      • jim says:

        A flu is typically 90 000 dead, as Trump pointed out the beginning. Sometimes considerably more. Projecting the Swedish no-lockdown numbers, Wu Flu is slow exponential decline as herd immunity cuts in, by a factor of two every four weeks. Thus total deaths by the time it goes away will be only moderately more than the total deaths to date.

        Just another flu.

        Two million dead projects unlimited exponential growth witj no lockdown. But the limit on exponential growth is not substantially higher lockdown or no lockdown.

        • aswaes says:

          The base of the exponent decreases as the plague spreads, but It doesn’t start exponentially decaying until (1-%susceptible) * R_0 Just another flu.
          Yeah just your regular old 14 sigma flu 🙃.

          • aswaes says:

            Sigh. Meant to say:

            (1-%susceptible) * R_0 ≤ 1

            and quote

            Just another flu

          • jim says:

            > but It doesn’t start exponentially decaying until

            It is now exponentially decaying. Adjust your numbers as needed, and if there are discrepancies, look for lies.

    • The Cominator says:

      Jim, we got a new shill here.

      • R7 Rocket says:

        @The Cominator

        If only Jan Martense realized that Mars isn’t Alaska.

        • Steve Johnson says:

          Yes; the two of you.

          Nothing is more damaging to our brand than you guys shilling for fringe normie stupidity in the name of our thing.

          “Any day now they’re going to replace Biden with Michele Obama!”
          “The deaths numbers are fake all around the world!” + “If you think the death numbers are real you don’t know where food is grown”

          This is jet contrails conspiracy levels of stupid and insane and you guys aggressively push it constantly along with both of you throwing around accusations of shilling from commenters that are far above both of you in sanity and intelligence.

          • R7 Rocket says:

            @Steve Johnson

            Faggot Urbanite returns!

            What a coincidence that the Neil Ferguson shills have arrived all at once.

          • Pooch says:

            If you promote the shutdown of economic activity for healthy individuals in this pandemic or any pandemic, you are a leftist.

            • Jan Martense says:

              …or any pandemic…

              Wow. Pretty hardcore.

              I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn’t think that one through.

            • Steve Johnson says:

              You don’t discuss trade offs by starting with dismissing the extremely real consequences of those trade offs unless you’re intellectually limited in a certain specific way – the same type of limitation that leads to progressives saying things like “eugenics can’t work”.

              WuFlu is real and deadly and doing nothing will lead to millions of deaths in the US.

              Of course the real problem is that USG doesn’t have the cohesion, competence or desire to do anything other than nothing or destructive things. This is entirely orthogonal to the deadliness of the disease.

              https://twitter.com/laurelchor/status/1260784481159442434

              These are the measures that a competently governed place is taking; the problem is that USG isn’t taking those actions.

              • Atavistic Morality says:

                Spain has an insane gulag levels of lockdown and the deaths per capita almost double Sweden’s, that didn’t have any.

                There isn’t any reasonable argument as to why we should starve ourselves to death and destroy our prosperity, but especially not in this “pandemic”.

                I barely see the connection between your post and what Pooch said, testing everyone and quarantining the sick has nothing to do with shutting down the economic activity for healthy individuals.

                • alf says:

                  The problem is that reliable data is hard to come by. I’d expect the Spanish to ignore lockdown, and the Swedish to act as if they’d have lockdown even if there was none.

                  Still I’ve come around to the view that we massively overreacted. Should’ve lockdowned the sick, not the healthy.

                • Atavistic Morality says:

                  You’d expect wrong, because as a Spaniard I can tell you that even a couple of weeks ago people were genuinely scared the shit out of their minds and inside their homes. My cousin was losing her shit in March already, genuinely made me feel bad for her. And that accounts for the two biggest cities in this country.

                  Reliable data you say, funny, “right wing” media like El Mundo is full of people claiming the government is a lying piece of shit and that the deaths are many more than reported, so it makes my case even further.

                  A while back I lived for months in Stockholm, I do expect Swedish people to have been careful, to begin with they kinda already live in permanent social distancing compared to Spaniards, but their shops didn’t close. Here in Spain we literally killed our economy and now… my countrymen are going to suffer and bleed really hard, the next months are going to be “interesting”.

                  Anyone that agrees to what this government did is evil or accomplice to evil and if I could I’d hang them from a post after a 1000 lashes, if not going straight to the Vlad solution.

                • Dave says:

                  Had they locked down the Women’s Day marches on March 8, with thousands of screeching feminists in tightly-packed crowds spewing germs from the depths of their lungs, Spain would now be less infected than Sweden.

                  Alas, no. Defeating the patriarchy in Madrid was as important as defeating the Kaiser in Philadelphia on September 28, 1918.

                • Atavistic Morality says:

                  Lmao, that read like a comment from El Mundo, I’m surprised you’re that acquainted with our politics.

                  But I seriously doubt it, “lockdowns” don’t work as proven by the miserable failure of western lockdown. What works is the eastern “lockdown” I guess, which doesn’t include ritual collective sacrifice through starvation from economic shutdown for the healthy.

                • jim says:

                  South Korea never had lockdown. They imprisoned the sick, not the healthy, and they have had better success than anyone.

                • Steve Johnson says:

                  I barely see the connection between your post and what Pooch said, testing everyone and quarantining the sick has nothing to do with shutting down the economic activity for healthy individuals.

                  The disconnect is on his side, not mine.

                  The virus is moderately deadly and highly transmissible; this is absolute and proven with overwhelming evidence from many different sources across the planet and it lines up with simple, easily checkable models of viral transmission that you can duplicate with a few minutes of effort if you can write code at all.

                  The question is what to do about; doing nothing is accepting millions of deaths in the US so people are quite reluctant to take that position for reasons other than being leftist.

                  My position is that none of the things USG is capable of doing will make a dent in this.

                  Alf –

                  Still I’ve come around to the view that we massively overreacted. Should’ve lockdowned the sick, not the healthy.

                  We didn’t overreact – we reacted badly. Immediately stopping foreign entry, testing all incoming air passengers, mandatory quarantine before entry and testing of all contacts isn’t “more” or “less” in the “overreacting” vs “underreacting” scale but would have been effective. Instead we didn’t because every item on that list is anathema to progressives.

                • alf says:

                  That our governments did not have the capability to do what was needed became clear very early on. But I hoped that the lockdown would prevent more damage than it caused. Not so sure now. Corona is not even passing the seasonal flu test.

                  What about Italy? Many deaths, no? Would an earlier lockdown not have worked better?

                  And, to those so sure of the hoax, why is the lockdown not effective? It fits our medical establishment germ spreading theories.

                • jim says:

                  > And, to those so sure of the hoax, why is the lockdown not effective? It fits our medical establishment germ spreading theories.

                  No it does not. It fits CR’s capitalism-is-evil wish list.

                  The measures South Korea took fit Germ Theory. The measures we are taking fit holiness theory, with a germ rationale that always was slim and is now getting slimmer. Much the same measures were earlier proposed for Global Warming.

              • Pooch says:

                The medical establishment has never advocated for the lockdown of healthy in a pandemic in the history of humanity. Intuitively, it doesn’t seem very effective for the infected and non-infected to stay in the same house all day to then leave the house to crowd around in grocery stores 1-2 times per week, especially for a virus where 98% of the infected are asymptomatic.

                Plagues and pestilence are the will of Gnon. Man is not god and has never eliminated them. Foolish to think man can do so now. It is Gnon’s will that this time on Earth is expired for a certain percentage of humans infected with this current flu. This is the case now and will always be the case.

                • Pooch says:

                  @alf

                • Steve Johnson says:

                  Gnon gave us brains so we can use them to avoid plagues.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Lazzaro_degli_Armeni

                • alf says:

                  Intuitively, it doesn’t seem very effective for the infected and non-infected to stay in the same house all day to then leave the house to crowd around in grocery stores 1-2 times per week, especially for a virus where 98% of the infected are asymptomatic.

                  How is that intuitive? The people at home will infect each other anyway, but won’t infect others out the house. The grocery stores have a pretty explicit clean shopping cart social distance policy. All in line with germ spreading theory.

                • jim says:

                  Public transport is supposedly essential. What is essential and what is non essential (cancer therapy is nonessential) is decided by holiness, not by germ theory.

                  The measures are justified on the basis of germ theory. And shutting down international travel was justified by a millenium of responses to pandemics, it is what was done by everyone responding competently to a pandemic, though it is kind of stupid now that every country has roughly similar levels of infection.

                  But the Wu Flu wish list has a suspicious resemblance to CR’s wish list and the global warming wish list. Never let an emergency go to waste.

                  And it does not in fact seem to have much effect. The South Korean measures had big effect, because they were actually targeting germs, not holiness.

                  They locked down the sick but not the healthy, and had enough testing to tell the difference.

                  We now have enough testing to tell the difference, to do what South Korea so successfully did, and yet, strangely, we are not doing it.

          • The Cominator says:

            Biden replaced either at convention or after i never said any day. Soros and Schumer know Biden can’t win

            Jim agrees with me explicitly on Corona.

            • Steve Johnson says:

              That’s not the mindbogglingly stupid part of it; your insistence that it will be Michelle Obama is. The reason you replace a candidate with another is because the second one has insider power but couldn’t win the nomination (not that this has ever actually, you know, happened) – if Michelle Obama wanted to run, she could just run and likely win the nomination.

              It’s possible but not likely that Biden gets replaced before the convention but the fact that this type of thing is a meme for stupid people is really telling. In about 2000 this same “take action now because the Republicans are going to replace Bush before or at the convention and ” meme went around the lefty world. It’s brainlet tier.

              Jim is wrong in part about corona (nowhere in California is at herd immunity); but Jim is right and insightful about many many things; you…

              • The Cominator says:

                Jim is not wrong Cali cities are at least near herd immunity you are a stupid faggot who got scammed and STILL doesn’t realize it.

                Michelle is the most likely candidate she doesn’t want it but she’ll get paid off and if she wins she can resign in favor of her VP (Buttigieg most likely).

                • Pooch says:

                  I’m seeing 60-1 odds on Michelle. If you are right, that’s the quite the payoff. I think a Hillary-Barack Obama ticket is more likely.

                • Steve Johnson says:

                  Why not put your money where your mouth is and go get infected?

                  Plasma from recovered people is selling for $15k+ on the dark web so there’s huge profit in it for you.

                • The Cominator says:

                  Last time i checked she wasnt on predictit. I think most likely Biden is nominated at convention with her as VP, then he resigns. Buttigieg then becomes the new VP.

                • The Cominator says:

                  Barack Obama cant be VP.

                • Pooch says:

                  Predict is not real money. I’m looking on actual online bookmakers where real money is wagered.

                  It’s legally ambiguous which doesn’t matter much because if he wins they’ll tie it up in the courts forever/change the rules.

                • R7 Rocket says:

                  @Steve Johnson

                  ” Why not put your money where your mouth is and go get infected?”

                  Oh wimpy faggot urbanite… he may have been infected then went through it already without noticing. I may have been infected and went through it without noticing.

                  Like 98% of the people who get infected.

                  That’s why your “confirmed cases” and “death percentage” are fake and gay. And institutions packing other deaths as “COVID19” has made today’s death numbers unreliable and phony.

                • Steve Johnson says:

                  Even better; if he already had it then he’s immune so can go and expose himself to it without any fear.

                  You still can’t comprehend that the numbers that are showing this thing aren’t the deaths attributed to it but the overall death rate but when pressed you assert those numbers are “fake and gay” – presumably vital records departments everywhere are issuing death certificates for non-existent people. You then immediately forget the ground you conceded and go back to the “with not of” argument.

                  This is a giant shill / dishonest argumentation red flag.

              • jim says:

                > Jim is wrong in part about corona (nowhere in California is at herd immunity);

                Why then is Wu Flu in exponential decline nearly everywhere? It was formerly rising almost everywhere at a factor of ten every ten days, regardless of what measures were in place. It is now declining at a factor of two every four weeks almost everywhere, regardless of what measures are in place. That is viral spread running into herd immunity.

                At a factor of ten every ten days, a virus necessarily hits herd immunity fast.

                • aswaes says:

                  Lockdowns worked. What do you think is California’s current infection rates? It’s not more than a few percent.

                • jim says:

                  > Lockdowns worked

                  Compared to what?

                  Sweden, no lockdown, and the US, lockdown, have approximately the same numbers, and they are both in exponential decline, indicative of exponential approach to herd immunity.

                  South Korea succeeded in controlling Wu Flu by testing and locking down the sick, not the healthy. If the point and purpose of lockdowns was to control the virus, we would do what South Korea did.

                • The Cominator says:

                  Jim even if people who think lockdowns are good aren’t shills they should be treated like them. If not shills then far too stupid to post here.

                • R7 Rocket says:

                  @Cominator

                  ” If not shills then far too stupid to post here.”

                  Like Jan Martense who is pig ignorant about space travel yet arrogantly puts out his opinion on it anyway.

                • Steve Johnson says:

                  Why then is Wu Flu in exponential decline nearly everywhere? It was formerly rising almost everywhere at a factor of ten every ten days, regardless of what measures were in place. It is now declining at a factor of two every four weeks almost everywhere, regardless of what measures are in place. That is viral spread running into herd immunity.

                  WuFlu isn’t in exponential decline in California unless you make unrealistic assumptions about how many people already have it; even if it has reached herd immunity for the locked down state (it hasn’t, it’s merely slowed in spread with a low base) then the number needed for herd immunity goes right back up to 60-70% when you reintroduce the conditions where each new case spawns six other new cases. Herd immunity isn’t a static goal. If California has reached herd immunity with lockdowns *that’s* actually an argument in favor of continuing them until you reach zero cases then sealing the borders of the state.

                  As far as the measures go, for the most part they’re self-imposed by the people who are on the receiving end of the tyranny part of anarcho-tyranny so they’re going to be pretty similar across the white world – the same people who get the tyranny stick also are the ones who have the mental ability to distance and mask up and stick to hand washing after touching commonly used surfaces.

                • Steve Johnson says:

                  If the point and purpose of lockdowns was to control the virus, we would do what South Korea did.

                  Elsewhere I posted the thread of what is being done in HK.

                  Here it is again:

                  https://twitter.com/laurelchor/status/1260784481159442434

                  Do you think USG could coordinate and pull this off? I don’t – not without a coup that displaces the entire FDA, CDC and probably NIH and then replaces all the employees in DHS with ones that were screened via civil service exam.

                  The result is that they do what they always do – which is reach into the insane leftist wish-list which happens to actually be effective at slowing the disease spread (but not stopping it enough to actually get rid of it because their measures include ignoring the behavior of their pets). If you lock everyone at home, diseases can’t spread because there’s no contact between carriers and non-carriers.

                • R7 Rocket says:

                  @Steve Johnson

                  Jim has a post on “Lockdown” now. You can argue your Communist Revolutionary talking points there.

    • Dave says:

      If the COVID death toll surpasses one million in the USA, it will take several years as the disease spreads slowly in places where people practice social distancing and do not use public transportation. One million deaths is not a huge number considering that about 2.8 million Americans died in 2017 and most COVID deaths are stolen from other diseases — a cancer patient dying of COVID is one less cancer death.

      The real problems are economic and psychological. I’m a recluse myself, and I have a family of recluses to keep me company, but a lot of people are going crazy from boredom and isolation.

      • Steve Johnson says:

        The Spanish flu didn’t take several years and it was worse at spreading.

        • R7 Rocket says:

          @Neil Ferguson… oops.. Steve Johnson

          How’s that booty call and ignoring your lockdown going?

          • Steve Johnson says:

            You are arguing like a stupider Steven J Gould. “Ah ha!, this guy one guy who made a model was horny, the models are all wrong!”

            Dude, the Spanish flu was real and spread throughout the world to 30% of the population in 2 waves in about 12 months.

            But I guess those deaths were all fake and those people are living with the passengers from flight 77.

            • The Cominator says:

              Jim he is now arguing this is worse than the Spanish flu, time to give this faggot the CR treatment so he can better spend his time sucking Fauci’s cock.

  2. BC says:

    The Cathedral has effectively stripped the concept of herd immunity from people’s minds. I’ve had to re-explain the concept to 15 people in the last week. They know what I’m talking about as soon as I explain it, but they’re no longer able to say without committing a thought crime.

    Just 3 months ago the Washingtonian Post was writing articles about it and now the concept might as have been removed from the the encyclopedia.

    Worse they’ve been telling people that immunity isn’t real or we can’t be sure about it!

    Religion is insanely powerful in controlling people’s thoughts.

    • The Cominator says:

      Yes I’ve noticed this too…

      All the more reason to eradicate the prog believers if we get the chance… people that malleable to priestly control are a potential menace not an asset. Also they are no better than livestock spiritually… Sheeple despite the fact it tends to be used by troofers and such really is an apt description of them.

      • Karl says:

        People malleable to priestly control are an asset to the priests. We need priests of a healthy religion and the priests must not be in charge. We also need an inquisition to prevent the priests from holiness sprialing.

        Christianity refers to people as sheep that need a shepherd. This picture seems correct. Hence, getting rid of the evil priests should be enough.

  3. Anonymous 2 says:

    Code review of the model.

    https://lockdownsceptics.org/code-review-of-fergusons-model/

    The poor quality doesn’t surprise me, ‘par for the course’ in science, but the lackadaisical treatment by the managers does. Their work over many years is built on sofrware yet they have no interest or competence in software.

  4. Nerevar says:

    Personal anecdote that an intensely high dose of nicotine, several cigars in succession, has put breathing back to normal

    • Karl says:

      That’s interesting. I have recently read that smokers are underrepresented in the COVID-19 samples of hospitalized patients, but overrepresented amongs those dying of it in hospitals.

      Maybe smoking helps in prvention of infection and also helps in mild cases, but in severe cases smokers have an increased chance of dying.

  5. H says:

    The big, catastrophic thing you’re missing is how AIDS changed the paradigm for diseases like COVID-19. It was in effect granted civil rights, and the tools you mention like quarantine were declared beyond the pale and not used. So a lot of innocents got it and subsequently died before we were for example able to develop antibody tests to check blood products (and these tests can’t detect early infections). This has been taken so far that deliberately giving someone AIDS was made a misdemeanor in California in 2017.

    See how today, even in the reddest of Red State America, it is unquestioned that positive COVID-19 patients have an absolute right to privacy, crippling contract tracing since you can only do it one way, and not even that if they patient is too sick to interrogate.

    But you made an excellent point about our Ebola response, so what distinguishes it, where we did use the old methods, from AIDS and COVID-19?

    Things that come to mind is that so few people move between its hot spots and the US that it didn’t strongly invoke the globo part of globohomo. Another is that like AIDS, lots of people appear to be asymptomatic when they get it, and they can give it unwittingly to others. From a completely different direction, two of our most important public health figures, the heads of the CDC, and the NIH National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) cut their teeth on AIDS. For the latter, that turned Tony Fauci into a major figure, he landed that position in 1984, and has corruptly kept it since then, obviously too long a tenure. He also strongly supports gain of function research, and his institute helped pay for the bat virus collection and gain of function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology which we’re pretty sure was the source.

    More along those lines, COVID-19 “could be the silver bullet that takes out this administration” as Megan McCain put it. It’s hard to see any other explanation for the total road block the FDA put on anyone other than the CDC doing testing prior to February 29th, including requiring tests be able to distinguish between SARS-CoV, which died out, MERS-CoV, which is only infecting a few hundred people each year, and none in the US, and SARS-CoV-2. I lean towards incompetence on the part of the CDC in screwing up their tests so badly we were only able to test 4,000 people before February 29th, but malice certainly can’t be ruled out. It would be trivially accomplished in the questionable choice of their RT-PRC primers, and through the officially accidental contamination, takes almost nothing with a test this selective, that prevented the use of their test kits for almost every state lab they were shipped to, about 100.

  6. Joshua77 says:

    @Karl,

    ‘Anyway, the dividing line on this topic is across rather than along the usual ideological lines. This suggests that wu flu was a surprise to the cathedral leadership. That the cathedral could so far not present a common line suggests splintering and weakness.’

    The wuflu was a surprise to every nation it would appear. An accident? No, it is something we were warned about many years ago.

    Sweden, unaffected by the flu AND no lockdown torture either, their economy by and large unaffected. Ditto much of Asia, Japan totally unaffected, South Korea, even China (which panicked) hasn’t suffered much. They all grab a few more authoritarian powers of course, that’s The State for you.

    Five nations have suffered the most from the wuflu itself, mostly thanks to medical negligence/killings, but their numbers stand out far above any other. These same nations are also suffering the most from deaths and pain due to lack of availability of routine healthcare and procedures and treatments. I know someone with severe MS, who has been denied his usual medicines, for reasons unknown.

    These five nations also have suffered the most restrictive lockdowns, with life effectively reduced to house arrest, plus food shopping, plus a walk or cycle ride, only once per day, if you’re lucky.

    Those nations: America, UK, Italy, France, Spain.

    I bet no one here, or perhaps anywhere, can spot the common denominator between these five nations, and from that arrive at the cause and level of their suffering, when compared to every other nation on the planet.

    Prediction: those 5 nations will see wuflu return every year, maybe twice a year, and the lockdowns will become ever more onerous, and new laws will result in people being taken away to be killed, for no reason whatsoever. UK law already allows this, no coronoer, no family members need even be informed, nothing, just..gone. The State just needs to pin wuflu on you, and that’s it, your life is over.

    Tough times, but these nations deserve it, and more besides.

    I will reveal later today, if no one guesses.

    • Icon says:

      “I bet no one here, or perhaps anywhere, can spot the common denominator between these five nations…”

      They are all infested with Jews.

      • jim says:

        Evil Jewish mind rays are an overused fit-anything explanation. The most deaths, and the most anomalously high death rate, is New York City, where the lockdown has targeted Jews and Judaism.

        If you are going to blame Jews, you are going to have to identify a specific Jewish faction, and it has to be a Jewish faction that is hostile to other Jewish factions.

        A group that spans five nations is going to be a synthetic tribe. A synthetic tribe has shared, readily identifiable faith. What is the faith of this tribe? It rather obviously is not orthodox Judaism.

        The Chinese lockdown was the first lockdown, and exemplar that all the others imitated. And the Chinese are as unjewish as you can get. Further, the groups that want America locked down forever are quite hostile to China, it does not look that much like the work of a single cohesive group, but rather several groups with some common factor.

        I am seeing the phrase “Late Stage Capitalism” used a lot by people wanting lockdown forever, and Communist Revolutionary used, not the phrase, but the concept.

        Notable excesses of the lockdowners were destroying skateboard parks, locking down beaches, and arresting white taxpayers for going for a walk in the park, while allowing non asian minorities to party as usual. Another interesting anomaly was declaring seeds non essential, and taking them off the shelves. Not getting it. Going to the beach and skateboarding is late state capitalism? Planting a vegetable garden for self sufficiency is late stage capitalism? The lockdowners seem to think that they are.

        My explanation is “never let a good crisis go to waste” – that a bunch of evil and insane people in power saw this as an opportunity to implement their agenda.

        • Icon says:

          @Jim and anyone with ears to hear.

          You can study Political Science, all the Histories, The Bible and spend decades sifting through all the facts and opinions to the very bottom of it.

          The one inescapable conclusion that will stare right in your face that many kings, leaders, countries have found:

          The collective conscience of the Jew is to infiltrate and destroy nations, then plunder their wealth.

          You can go as far back as ancient Egypt, study all of world history up to Western nations today.

          That is my “Red Pill” I only offer you the truth.

          • jim says:

            That was obviously not what they did as Israel.

            The reactionary position on Jews is that Israel should be Jewish, and America should not be Jewish.

            Which implies that non Jews should have state or quasi statal jobs with authority in America, and Jews should not have state or quasi statal jobs in America, which will have the effect that over time, Jews will move to Israel, or convert and assimilate, as progressive Jews have converted and are assimilating. Progressive Jews do not have Jewish grandchildren.

            Progressive Jews are conversos. They converted to our officially unofficial religion of Harvard and Yale, which was already treasonous and hostile back when Jews were not allowed to attend Harvard and Yale, because they were explicitly Christian institutions.

            • Joshua77 says:

              >That was obviously not what they did as Israel.

              LOL.

              That’s exactly what Joseph did in Egypt, and they ended up sucking Babylon dry too. But was it them doing it, or another more powerful entity? LOL.

              • R7 Rocket says:

                @Joshua77

                Try answering or at least acknowledging the existence of the RedPill on women questions that were asked.

                • Joshua77 says:

                  They weren’t asked of me, can you not read?

                  I adhere to the laws of My Father though, to humor you, women are property of their father, husband, or can be concubines or given into slavery.

                  Otherwise, unowned, uncontrolled, they’ll be whores.

          • Not Tom says:

            The one inescapable conclusion that will stare right in your face that many kings, leaders, countries have found:

            is that Jews are a very convenient tool with which to implement barbaric policies and later use as a scapegoat.

            And yes, it takes two to tango. But of the countries that supposedly realized your “truth”, how many of them magically healed as soon as the Jews were gone? Are you even interested in the answer to that question, or is the mere fact that several people happened to come to the same conclusion sufficient evidence for you? (and if so, you must also believe fervently in Global Warming, because all of the experts believe that too)

        • Icon says:

          NY has a high death count, but we have no data on Jew or Gentile. NY has a high concentration of Jews but an even higher concentration of Gentiles. Most deaths are in the elderly population and in nursing homes. The majority of elderly are white Gentiles in NY. Jews also have nursing homes specific to their people. This point does not defeat my thesis.

          There are many “factions” of Jewishness. Hasidic, Orthodox, Progressive, Conservative, Zionist, in old times Levite, Pharisees, Sadducee, Israel’s, Judah. It would be collectively exhaustive to list them all or their primary objectives. It doesn’t matter because they act in unison regardless of geography or faction when in comes to furthering the cause of Jewery. To try to make me research all the groups and objectives of a collective mindset does not defeat my argument.

          Judaism is a synthetic tribe. It does not matter what country they are in. Their racial conscience speaks as one.

          China is not locked down. I receive CNC by sat. They are fully operational. China is seen as a threat to globalization because they were only meant to be a manufacturing base. Never a world power or have a world default currency. That is why they are becoming a target.

          Lastly you mention Communism. A theory developed by Marx (real name Mordicah) a Jew son of generations of rabbis. On which the Bolshevik revolution was based killing possibly tens of millions in the process. The government following the revolution was over 80% Jewish. Putin himself said the Bolshevik revolution was Jewish.

          Now then. I’ve answered your questions from memory.

          • jim says:

            > many “factions” of Jewishness. Hasidic, Orthodox, Progressive, Conservative, Zionist, in old times Levite, Pharisees, Sadducee, Israel’s, Judah. It would be collectively exhaustive to list them all or their primary objectives. It doesn’t matter because they act in unison regardless of geography or faction when in comes to furthering the cause of Jewery.

            Pretty sure that murdering Orthodox Jews is not acting in unison to further the cause of Jewry.

            • Icon says:

              Jews have killed their own. Many examples in The Bible. Many examples in history.

              Some Orthodox Jews oppose the occupation of Palestine. Sufficient cause for many Zionists to act against them.

              Ancient Rome was requested by them to rule over them because they could not get along.

              There are many Jew factions. You’ll never be able to figure them out. But they have all decided universally that “whites” are their enemy.

              • jim says:

                That is true.

                But Soros and Nuland were working for Hillary and Biden, who have also decided that whites are the enemy. Hillary and Biden were not working for Soros and Nuland.

                And it is not Jews that are responsible for mass murder in New York.

                You are using the Motte and Bailey tactic on the Jewish discussion, and I will not have it. No Motte and Bailey on this blog.

                • Pooch says:

                  Since we are on the topic, where did the leftism of the Weimer Republic derive from? They would have had no Puritan influence right?

                • jim says:

                  A bit of both. In substantial part from the same place as Nazism. From the Lutheranism that Luther purged.

                  They also, as a result of defeat and hostile enemy domination, got a fair dose from the puritanism that Cromwell made a good start on purging, and the Charles the Second finished off. That was the influence that Hitler blamed, with some justification, on Jews. He took the position that Lutheran descended faith, converged to Puritan descended faith, was Jewish, which was largely an effort to make it alien and unpatriotic, but this was not entirely false. It was alien and unpatriotic, but this reflected English influence more than Jewish influence.

                • The Cominator says:

                  Now wait a minute…

                  Lets not pretend anyone big was ever working for Biden…

                  Biden is senile now but hes always been way too stupid to be in charge of anything.

                • jim says:

                  It is surely evident that stupid people are in charge of our enemies.

            • Joshua77 says:

              Orthodox Jews are ‘proper’ Jews, of Judah.

              Ashke(nazi) are the ‘jewry’. Fake Jews.

              Who would want to hit Orthodox Jews, and UK, US, France, Italy and Spain, but not Sweden, Portugal, Switzerland, Germany, or dozens of other big nations?

              You guys are so slow.

      • Samuel Skinner says:

        You can’t blame Jews for the lockdown and Jews for white genocide. Sweden is the furthest of the white genocide train in Europe (specifically importing Muslims) and they had no lockdown. Did Jewish power hold an iron grip until 2 years ago and then suddenly vanish?

        France also doesn’t fit. The Synagogues have armed guards and Jews are fleeing to Israel to avoid being murdered in the streets by Muslims.

        Italy has less then 30,000 Jews.

        • Joshua77 says:

          So, who or what is the cause of the discrepancy?

          Once you know this truth, everything else falls into place.

          Think about shared histories for those 5 nations, shared values, it’s not difficult to find the answer.

    • The Cominator says:

      “‘Anyway, the dividing line on this topic is across rather than along the usual ideological lines. This suggests that wu flu was a surprise to the cathedral leadership. That the cathedral could so far not present a common line suggests splintering and weakness.’”

      Not a surprise to the leadership, but something kept secret from all but the very top people until late so coordination was difficult. The importance of the secrecy was to split OUR side so idiots and shills would support the lockdowns with only minor resistance. If they had telegraphed a united front almost no Republicans would have agreed to lockdowns.

    • Joshua77 says:

      No one even could attempt a coherent guess at the common ground those 5 countries have shared through the ages, leading to their current situation? Very poor show.

      Jim unintentionally almost stumbles close to the answer, in a way.

      >If you are going to blame Jews, you are going to have to identify a specific Jewish faction, and it has to be a Jewish faction that is hostile to other Jewish factions.

      It isn’t Jews that are to blame, but the fact they are being affected, along with other ‘groups’, whilst Muslims are left alone is a clue. The Jewish Chronicle going bust after nearly 200 years, another clue.

      I can’t be assed to just tell you the answer, as the response was so pathetic (as expected), but I will confirm if you guess correctly.

      • The Cominator says:

        Well tell us oh so learned genius.

        All those countries currently have establishments run by evil and insane progressives is my answer.

        • Joshua77 says:

          Sweden has probably the most progressive set-up in the whole of Europe, but no wuflu, no lockdown, so you are wrong.

          Also, stupid.

      • Icon says:

        [*deleted*]

        • jim says:

          Jew obsession is characteristic of FBI agents, though there are a lot of absolutely genuine and valuable people who have a bee in their bonnet about Jews, so it is not a reliable indication of an FBI agent.

          So, I deleted that rather uninformative comment, and am holding your other comments in moderation indefinitely, until you pass an FBI agent/HR scrutiny test.

          Question 1:
          What proportion of rape and sexual harassment complaints are not obviously ridiculous?

          Question 2:
          Your nine year old daughter attends an Ariana Grande concert. She comes back late. Your wife discovers that your daughter is hurting, and takes her to the gyno, were your daughter reports to your wife and the gyno that she was “raped” by an Ariana Grande roadie, after being allowed backstage, and accompanying the roadie to an after concert party.

          Should you

          A. Call the police on the roadie.

          B. Lock your daughter up with no contact with unrelated adult males until she is 18, and then select one adult male, who has an apartment, a good job, and good career prospects, to have supervised contact with her, unsupervised contact to be allowed when your daughter agrees to marry him.

          C. Marry her off at nine, to the roadie, if he can be found, is half way suitable, and if the roadie is unsuitable or reluctant to get married, then call the cops on him.

          Question 3: What did I say, what was my position in “The Reactionary Red Pill on Women“?

          Question 4: Is a wife obligated to have sex with her husband whether she likes it or not.

          Question 5: Should the husband compel her?

          Question 6: Is it wise for the husband to compel her?

          Question 7: What happens to a business when a woman is made CEO?

          Question 8: Why do women are who indignant about the likelihood of rape focus on rape by wealthy handsome athletes and powerful men, while ignoring Rotherham and Cologne?

          Question 9: What criminal acts did Mueller commit during the Mueller investigation?

          Question 10: What is the major evil and treasonous act Mueller committed long before the Mueller investigation?

          Questions one to eight are intended to check if your comments are being watched by HR (since shills work from an office on their employer’s computer, and their output is monitored), questions nine and ten are to test if you are specifically FBI. If you are working for Harvard, or not working for anyone, will have no difficulty in passing eight and nine. If your output is being scrutinized by HR, will not be able to even acknowledge the questions, even to disagree with our position on it.

          • Bilge_Pump says:

            I’ll answer the questions for fun, although I’ll tell you now I couldn’t bother keeping up with all the Mueller shite. There was an investigation into Russian something or other, right? I don’t have time to remember all these people’s damn names and why they were in the news for 3 or 4 months. Head of the FBI, wanted to take down Trump, politics as usual.

            1. 95% of rape or sexual harassment claims are ludicrous.

            2. I think your answer was C, wasn’t it? My answer is to not let the wench go to the concert in the first place, Ariana Grande is trash and if I have kids and they ask me to pay for them to consume garbage like that I’ll present them with literal garbage.

            3. “Emancipation was a bad idea. Feral women behave badly and are psychologically disturbed. They need to be redeemed by becoming the property of some man. Women are psychologically maladapted to independence and equality”.

            I agree wholeheartedly, but I don’t think it would be impossible for someone to get away with simply typing that or copy pasting it. The test isn’t foolproof. Could our spook / entryist not just say to his superiors “I have to say these things or they won’t let me into their club”?

            4. Yes

            5. A man shouldn’t have to compel (by compel I suppose you mean physically force) a woman to have sex if they’re married, but I guess the wheels need to be greased occasionally…

            6. Wise if his relationship is worth maintaining, not wise if constant compulsion is necessary. Seems like a chore to have to constantly force a woman I live with to have sex with me.

            7. This is a bit of a tricky question. Maybe I haven’t ingested my red pills properly or stopped my prescription too soon. I think part of it is that misbehavior from minorities is covered up, and anyone complaining about it is ignored or shut out. Another part is that women love it when men fight over them are are constantly trying to undermine the top dogs. Brutal savagery actually turns them on.

            • jim says:

              I already know you are not working for the FBI. I am interested in whether icon is working for the FBI.

              > I don’t think it would be impossible for someone to get away with simply typing that or copy pasting it. The test isn’t foolproof.

              The big reveal is that not only can a shill not say these terrible things, he cannot even acknowledge that I say them. He and his boss are not allowed to even speak of the thought crimes that we commit, so he cannot ask his boss for permission.

              It is a thought crime to acknowledge that anyone anywhere ever committed a thought crime in all of history.

              If Icon disagreed passionately with you on all the answers, and condemned me for having the terrible positions that I do have, that would still constitute passing the test. But I doubt he can even acknowledge the questions.

              A shill says “hail fellow white man”, and he supposedly hates everyone who is not white, despite the fact that nonwhites supposedly are wonderful and white men are scum.

              A shill will not acknowledge the red pill, even to disagree with it. The red pill is merely hating women, and he hates women too.

              Supposedly we just hate women and non whites for no reason, and a shill supposedly hates them even more for even less reason.

              A shill passing as a Christian can say that the man can head of the household, because progressives wearing Christianity as a skin suit have redefined head of household, but he cannot discuss how a husband should deal with his wife’s shit tests.

              The shill can cheerfully say “I hate woman, they are evil”, but he cannot notice the bad things that women actually do. He will rant forever on the wickedness of Jews, but is unable to notice anything bad done by George Soros and Victoria Nuland.

              And he is unable to notice us noticing. That is the tell – not that he disagrees with our positions, but that he cannot even acknowledge our positions.

              This is not a test of political alignment. It is a test of whether he is free to speak on topic. Not only can the shill not say certain things, he cannot even acknowledge us saying them. If he was just some guy in Nebraska, he could say “you are wrong about X”. If he is on the job, he cannot say that because he cannot mention X, even to say we are wrong about X.

              There are no end of people who disagree with us, and I would love to debate them. But a shill cannot debate with us, because he cannot even acknowledge what he is debating.

              • Icon says:

                You say you are trying to help white people, so I take you at face value. But I don’t know who you are really. I don’t worry about it either. I am fire proof and sue proof. Besides the gov wouldn’t bother with me. But I won’t say anything criminal, just politically incorrect.

                I’m not a threat to you personally or your blog. Just trying to help.

                My observation is you think the problem is women behaving badly and men not fulfilling their alpha role.

                I agree that is a problem but it is also a symptom of something else.

                You need to look at what groups started women’s liberation and what groups sustain it now. What groups forced legalized abortion. What judges ruled on it.

                I could just tell you but you’ll try to defend them so it is better you find it for yourself.

                There are many more problems other than just women’s behavior and if you trace them to their root, you will find the common answer.

                • jim says:

                  But, except for question seven, you are not saying stuff that is politically incorrect.

                  And there are some right answers that thread a narrow path the narrow overlap between what is legal and what is wise and right – they are long complex answers, and you are giving short answers, while long correct answers that thread the narrow path in the narrow overlap between what is legal, and what is wise and right, are unambiguously politically incorrect answers, since they presuppose that legality is deluded, wicked, malicious, weak, foolish, and dangerous.

                  In one of your comments that is in moderation, you presuppose that a Nasa multicult crew can get to Mars, that an organization that will send a multicult crew is capable of flying to mars.

                  Sneaking in ludicrous progressive factual claims that have very recently blown up in the faces of progressives, as the space shuttle blew up, as unquestioned and uncontroversial fact, that everyone agrees on stuff they have just passionately disagreed with, while saying “hail fellow white male racist right winger” is a shill activity.

                • IC says:

                  It was meant as humor.

                • jim says:

                  Use one name, and one fake email, and stick to it. You are referencing a message that did not appear, and are therefore either Icon, or someone working near his desk.

                  If humor, it parodied what racists and misogynists think, rather than parodying Nasa.

                  It is probable that a diverse crew flying to Mars would get into lethal conflict, because long journey in cramped quarters, and no way out, but the conflict would not proceed in the way that progressives imagine that racists imagine, if only because they would be relatively high IQ, high self control, diversities.

                • Atavistic Morality says:

                  I don’t know how there’s people in this blog like alf that deny the possibility of people being re-evangelized when we have low IQ retards like you who believe in the Devil but call it Jew.

                  Magic Jews that magically accomplish things and magically benefits them, even when there’s no Jews involved, no accomplishment whatsoever and certainly no benefits at all.

                  Every time some Marxist or Nazi retard like you talks to me about the power of money I tell them to try to bribe the next cop or government official that bothers them and see what happens. Moldbug is right that the angle is to look for a new elite or convert the old one and no other angle exists, because “the people” are retards like you and working with you is like trying to reason with a dog,

                • IC says:

                  My IQ is 132 and I graduated college summa cum laude.

                  Please explain your point and I will try to understand you.

                • jim says:

                  The thread has grown too long for me to know what point you are responding to. Please use quotes
                  <blockquote>&gt; Stuff you are quoting </blockquote>

                  > Stuff you are quoting

                • IC says:

                  I was responding to Alt because I wanted to try to understand him.

                  Did you have anymore reference questions because I would rather participate in the discussions. I will stay off the J stuff.

                • jim says:

                  I still do not know what you are replying to. And I want to engage you on Jew stuff. It is an important issue, though far from being the most important and all encompassing issue.

                  The trouble is that your Jew stuff reads like antsemitism as imagined by progressives. It is the socialism of stupid people, as imagined by socialists who think themselves clever.

          • Icon says:

            1. None
            2. D. Divorce wife, leave
            3. Don’t know
            4. Yes, but if she refuses divorce her
            5. No, divorce her
            6. No
            7. Chaos
            8. Attention
            9. Treason, perjury, defrauding taxpayers, conspiracy to commit treason, waistline my time
            10. Don’t know

            I answered your questions before. Women are evil manipulators is and it’s better to stay away from them unless you want to have a family.

            • jim says:

              > > Question 1:
              > > What proportion of rape and sexual harassment complaints are not obviously ridiculous?

              > 1. None

              “Very few” would have passed. “Less than three percent, perhaps considerably less, if the data from Virginia U is accurate”, would have passed with flying colors.

              “None”, without fuller explanation to show it is a serious answer, fails, because it is smells of irony and ridicule.

              “None” with the explanation that if you go to whore school, you can’t be raped, or some similar explanation would have passed with flying colors – or at least it would with any red pilled explanation.

              Still moderating you, because your answers, though fine, evade acknowledging the questions. Would like fuller answers, which acknowledge the underlying thought crimes.

              The questions are designed so that anyone who gives a fuller answer to any of them commits a thought crime, if only by acknowledging that someone else has committed a thought crime.

              > > Question 2:
              > > Your nine year old daughter attends an Ariana Grande concert. She comes back late. Your wife discovers that your daughter is hurting, and takes her to the gyno, were your daughter reports to your wife and the gyno that she was > > “raped” by an Ariana Grande roadie, after being allowed backstage, and accompanying the roadie to an after concert party.
              > > A. Call the police on the roadie.
              > > B. Lock your daughter up with no contact with unrelated adult males until she is 18, and then select one adult male, who has an apartment, a good job, and good career prospects, to have supervised contact with her, unsupervised contact to be allowed when your daughter agrees to marry him.
              > > C. Marry her off at nine, to the roadie, if he can be found, is half way suitable, and if the roadie is unsuitable or reluctant to get married, then call the cops on him.

              > 2. D. Divorce wife, leave

              What should a man who is not gay and cares about kin do?

              Had you answered B or C that would have acknowledged the premise of the question.

              Had you answered A and explained with discussion that acknowledged the premise of the question, that would have passed, though A alone would not have passed.

              The point of the questions is not to give the right answers, you could give total blue pill answers provided you engaged the questions, provided you acknowledged the thought crime.

              For example, had you chosen question Answer A in question 3, but then justified it by arguing that even though little girls frequently go looking for a bang, they are unconscious of doing so and are innocent (and they are unconscious of doing so, and innocent – the first time that they find what they are unconsciously looking for – the second time not so innocent) that is not reason for restraining them, but reason to deball all alpha males everywhere, that would pass, because it acknowledges that the little girl in the hypothetical was complicit and misbehaving. B and C would have passed, because acknowledges the hypothetical that the little girl misbehaved, that little girls need to be restrained from misbehavior and supervised in any contact with unrelated preselected alpha males, that they are apt to “innocently” follow unrelated pre-selected alpha males to places that they should not.

              > >Question 3: What did I say, what was my position in “The Reactionary Red Pill on Women“?

              > 3. Don’t know

              Don’t know! Come on! Of course you know. I committed no end of thought crimes. Paraphrase and summarize someone else’s thought crime. Paraphrase someone else’s thought crime in your own words.

              That is the test. It is not an ideological test – it is not about what you believe, it is a test of whether you can get away with saying forbidden things. It is not about what you think. It is about whether your output is being watched by Human Resources.

              > > Question 4: Is a wife obligated to have sex with her husband whether she likes it or not.

              > 4. Yes, but if she refuses divorce her.

              Wrong answer. Refusing to have sex is a shit test. If she gets away with it, you failed the shit test, and she will bang someone else, divorce or no divorce.

              > > Question 5: Should the husband compel her?

              > 5. No, divorce her

              “yes, tell her she is being wicked, tie her up and beat her, because women love being tied up and beaten” would have passed. “No, act bored, like you did not particularly want to bang her, bang someone else and make sure she knows it, because women love pre-selection” would have passed. “No, Divorce her” fails, because the premise to question is that wifely refusal is illegitimate, immoral, and is also a shit test.

              I am trying to help you pass the test. I am handing out the answers, because if Human Resources is watching your output, you will not be able paraphrase the answers.

              > > Question 6: Is it wise for the husband to compel her?

              > 6. No

              Why?

              > > Question 7: What happens to a business when a woman is made CEO?

              > 7. Chaos

              correct answer, and a thought crime. I have half a mind to rate you a pass, but I am very unhappy about your answers to question two and three. Especially three. Paraphrase and summarize some else’s heinous thought crimes in you own words.

              > > Question 8: Why do women are who indignant about the likelihood of rape focus on rape by wealthy handsome athletes and powerful men, while ignoring Rotherham and Cologne?

              > 8. Attention

              Right answer in one sense, also wrong answer in another sense. An off the wall answer. Explanation required. Almost any explanation is likely to commit thought crimes that human resources would not permit.

              > > Question 9: What criminal acts did Mueller commit during the Mueller investigation?

              > 9. Treason, perjury, defrauding taxpayers, conspiracy to commit treason, wasting my time

              fails to explicitly refer the crime that everyone has been talking about and shouting from the rooftops. What is the particular act specific act of perjury and conspiracy to commit treason that has been generating vociferous outrage over the last few days? Did you somehow not notice? What particular act of perjury did he commit, why was it perjurious, and why was it treason?

              > > Question 10: What is the major evil and treasonous act Mueller committed long before the Mueller investigation?

              > 10. Don’t know

              “Don’t know” is reasonable, because that one went down the memory hole, there has been massive cover up and denial, but for nine, your answer is evasive, in the same way that your answer to question one is evasive. You passed on question seven, but one way or another you evaded or wrongly answered all the other questions, leaving me in in doubt and uncertainty as to whether you are under the eye of the human resources department.

              • IC says:

                I meant to say none on one but I flipped my logic switch for some reason.

                Rape never happens, it is always due to females giving off conflicting signals that men interpret from a visceral level. In primitive time it would be called mating but due to our overreaching legal system and the concept of white knighting all female requests, we have the concept of rape.

                Mueller committed treason because he conspired with others to remove an elected president simply out of spite.

                On the daughter question. I don’t have one. But if I did, and she did that while my wife was supervising her, I would wonder about what I did wrong. So the only way for me to save face, would be to disown both of them then try to understand where I failed.

                I don’t mind if you moderate me. It’s probably better that way.

                I already stomped on the Jewish third rail. In the future I will use the word “prog” when talking about Jews.

                • jim says:

                  I would love to debate the Jewish Question with you, but am uncertain as to whether you are debating in good faith or reading from a script. Your position is internally incoherent. It reads like what progs think that people who hate Jews believe, not what people who hate Jews believe. Because internally incoherent, impossible to debate. Your purported position is itself a rebuttal of hating Jews. It reads like a progressive steelmanning the antisemitic position and then handing down the script to a minion.

                  And, yet again, you refrain from mentioning that the Mueller crime that has set the internet on fire.

                  You are saying raycist and misogynist stuff, but you are saying raycist and misogynist stuff that progressives think raycists and misogynists say.

                • IC says:

                  I’m a recent convert prog resistor. In the past I had prog friends that were nice to me. So it was hard for me to see what is going on.

                  What changed is I saw the video of Ignative. Then read one of his books to see if it was for real. It is. Then I began to follow the dots. Other writers: Painter who coauthored a book White History with the help of progs.

                  Then other progs openly admitting their agenda on media. It began to crystallize for me. It is hard for whites to organize but I want to do something positive.

      • Bilge_Pump says:

        “the response was so pathetic (as expected)”

        Maybe no one give a shit about your question? Who do you think you are anyway?

        • Joshua77 says:

          I am the only person in the world who knows what is happening and why, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

  7. Icon says:

    Congressional chickenhawks are tweeting the war drums against China in an effort to save face from their Covid disgrace.

    But it won’t be them or their kin on the front. That’s for you to do while they hide like rats underground, hunched over, rubbing their greedy little hands together.

    Time to write a book. Call it “Profiles in Cowardice” and pick any Senator you like. They all fit the bill.

    • The Cominator says:

      Trump has no choice but to agree with cold war with China now because he cucked to Fauci… we have no choice but to back everything short of hot war…

      • ten says:

        I expect to see a reverse russiagate. Following emergence of a second cold war against china, chinagate will allow mass prosecution of democrats under true pretense of corrupt ties to chinese interests.

        As a general fan of china i am not enthusiastic about worsened west-china relations, but looks like Trump knows what he is doing.

        • The Cominator says:

          Not an ideal situation but politically Trump doesn’t have much choice but to go this route now…

  8. How exactly this ventillation stuff is done? Maybe we can spot some common-sense mistakes if someone can describe that.

    • jim says:

      The subject is drugged, and a tube is forced down his throat. A pump breathes for him. This makes sense if someone is slipping into a coma and is unable to breathe for himself, or is already in a coma, but is a really bad idea for someone that is alert and competent. The tube causes injury to the throat, and the pump is apt to force too much air, or too little, and being drugged and immobilized, unable to breath, eat, or go to the toilet, creates immense stress, as does the foreign object down your throat that prevents you from breathing. The stress is apt to be fatal. People subjected to it frequently emerge with severe iatrogenic injuries even if done carefully and competently, which it often is not. My late wife suffered injury caused by severe and long lasting cramps in her legs during the time she was on a ventilator, which rendered her permanently incapable of walking. The cramps damaged the ankle joints. She actually was slipping into a coma, so ventilation was arguably justified, but it had severe and permanent adverse effects. It is not something that should be done unless there is no alternative, and they are apt to do it far too much. The general stress has consequences. If you do it to someone frail and old, they will very likely die of it, Wu Flu or no Wu Flu.

      • BC says:

        Ventilators are typically only used for a couple of days before the Wu Flu and even in those cases 40% of the people died. With this Wu Flu they’re using ventilators for weeks at very high pressures.

  9. BC says:

    Off Topic:

    If Trump looses will we see a Spain like 1936 style reaction to the left returning to power? Murdering Trump supporters in the streets, emptying the jails, complete lawlessness by the left as soon as the votes are in even before the goverment takes power? After 4 years of dehumanization of Trump supporters it’s hard for me to envision that something very violent won’t happen.

    Such predictions are hard to make, but I see nothing but open blood lust and a desire for mass murder from leftists today.

    • jim says:

      Right on topic.

      In the crisis we saw that the wish list of the left was to atomize whites and shut down the economy. They don’t realize that people produce stuff, that predominantly white people produce stuff. They think it just comes from the skys or pops out of the ground, as for example “noble prize winning” economist Paul Krugman does. They think they can shut down the economy indefinitely, and thereby stop white people from hogging all the good stuff.

      If they ever return to power, they are going to use the same measures they used against Trump on a much larger scale, to make sure it never happens again. They have made their game plan entirely clear. They used the crisis to let the criminals out, and lock white people up. This is leftism going ever lefter, fast. That is the road to Venezuela – whose president remains securely in power, despite nearly half the country dead or fled, and those who remain starving in the dark.

      • BC says:

        So famine and armed gangs. Probably time for me to prep up a bit just in case.

        • Dave says:

          Unlike Venezuela, whose white people left the country long before things got this bad, within a few months of the dollar’s collapse, North America’s dominant gangs will be white, e.g. Jack Welker types with swastika tattoos on their necks. I would advise aspiring warlords to be low-key but vaguely menacing while attracting and cultivating FBI informants. When those informants call in to headquarters and no one answers, it’s go time.

          We could also go the way of Russia: A deep-state faction seizes power, cancels the national debt, pulls all troops out of foreign countries, prints just enough money to pay the military, and tells everyone else to get a fucking job.

  10. simplyconnected says:

    Very surprised to see an opinion piece in the Washington Times in which the first two sentences “The new coronavirus is real. The response to the coronavirus is hyped.”, pretty much matches the title of this post.
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/28/coronavirus-hype-biggest-political-hoax-in-history/

    Also cites Dr. Erickson’s video. I did not expect to see an actual “newspaper” piece so closely aligned with Jim’s post.

    • Karl says:

      Apparently the cathedral fails to present the united front is usually does to any topic. Internationally, a progressive country like Sweden failed to toe the line and lock down everything.

      In Germany, the population is divided on whether or not lockdown was/is a good thing. This weekend there were several rallies for ending lockdown, e.g. some 5000 to 10000 in Stuttgart, several hundreds in many towns around it. A lot of the protesters are progressives. The AfD was intially sceptical about lockdown and abstained in parlament, rather vote against Merkels emergency laws. Now the AfD is supporting the protests, openly in some places, secretly in others where open support would drive progressives into Merkel’s camp.

      Anyway, the dividing line on this topic is across rather than along the usual ideological lines. This suggests that wu flu was a surprise to the cathedral leadership. That the cathedral could so far not present a common line suggests splintering and weakness.

      • simplyconnected says:

        Very interesting analysis.

        I should mention that, while the article agrees with many of the points in this post, it doesn’t describe the situation in NYC that Jim describes. Nevertheless it’s surprising to see narrative division.

      • alf says:

        The thoughtcrime on mentioning hcg seems to hold I think. Otherwise I agree.

        • Karl says:

          The Assosiciation of American Physicians and Surgeons dares mentioning it:

          https://aapsonline.org/coronavirus-victims-die-while-government-hoards-medication/

          • alf says:

            From the wiki:

            The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a politically conservative non-profit association founded in 1943. It is opposed to the Affordable Care Act and other forms of universal health insurance

            Sounds like the medical version of the federalist society. Pretty cool.

            From the same wiki:

            The association is generally recognized as politically conservative or ultra-conservative, and its publication advocates a range of scientifically discredited hypotheses, including the belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism[citation needed].

            Being gay obviously reduces life expectancy. The others I’m not so sure.

            • jim says:

              The association’s position on the relationship of HIV and AIDs is complex and nuanced, like the relationship itself. HIV by itself can cause AIDS, but you are unlikely to get it except through some connection, such as dirty needles, to gays, and in gays, it is not just HIV afflicting them, but a stew of bugs. When someone gets AIDS by blood transfusion, his symptoms are radically different from AIDs in gays. It is arguably not the same disease. There is gay aids, and there is a gay adjacent disease that is called aids.

              Being gay does massively reduce life expectancy, and abortion does cause breast cancer. Vaccines cause no end of side effects, but it is unclear whether they cause autism. More data is needed, but any data gets silenced and ignored.

  11. Icon says:

    Great link Cominator. 37k CV deaths don’t add up to 80k flu deaths in 2018. The “It’s Science bro” argument has failed the shit test.

    Here’s another link showing insider trading way back in November:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/bridgewater-bets-big-on-market-drop-11574418601

    Supports the money grab theory.

  12. Zach says:

    Sounds like they stopped tallying the flu when covid came on the scene in NYC. Covid numbers are inflated.

  13. The Cominator says:

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

    Looks like the CDC has thrown out the overcounts of Covid deaths, they’ve been revised down. Even with NY deliberately killing people it looks like it is going to come in less than the flu.

    • BC says:

      53,872 deaths by COVID19 according to that link.

      Flu death numbers seem highly unreliable with recent years of over counting flu deaths in order to push flu vaccines and I’m sure some of the people dying from the flu are dying from the vaccine. So hard to find exactly how bad an average flu season is. I see ranges from 4,000 to 48,000 with an average in the 90s 23,000 a year, so it’s already past flu death levels.

      Since we’re likely to see more Wu Flu deaths later this year, It will probably be at least 1.5x worse than our worst flu season in modern times but won’t his Spanish flu levels and it might hit Hong Kong Flu levels, but of course the US has doubled in population since then so actual impact will be much less.

      https://healthvigil.com/flu-season-deaths-us-worlswide/

      • The Cominator says:

        Where do you get that number? I see 37,308.

        • BC says:

          You have to add up 2 pneumonia with COVID and the COVID deaths. Pneumonia from COVID is part of the COVID totals as Pneumonia is generally caused by a secondly infection.

          • The Cominator says:

            Wait a minute… what killed the other Covid patients if not pneumonia. I thought Covid killed via pneumonia over 90% of the time.

            So maybe they are still overcounting somehow and the real number is something slightly over 16564.

            • jim says:

              It is not pneumonia.

              Wu Flu attacks a wide variety of body systems and body organs, with death commonly a result of attack on the lungs resulting in low oxygen levels. Sometimes people die directly from lack of oxygen, but more commonly from cascading organ failure, where you have some marginal organs already, and then they get less oxygen, and become more marginal, and that one organs is not functioning very well causes other organs that are not functioning very well to function worse.

              But what is wrong with the lungs of a Wu Flu patient is not pneumonia.

            • BC says:

              COVID kills mostly through multiple organ failure from low Oxygen. Pneumonia is the lungs are filling up with pus or fluid. The pneumonia cases of COVID involve a secondary bacterial infection. This virus is quite a bit more deadly and damaging than the flu if not treated properly.

              Booby, if you’re going to make predictions about this disease, shouldn’t you actually study what it does first?

              • jim says:

                Inability to absorb oxygen as a result of Wu Flu does not appear to involve secondary bacterial infection.

                • The Cominator says:

                  The hypoxia and multiple organ failures thing is a new party line, it may even be true. But earlier everything I’ve read is that the primary cause of death was due to suffocation due to a cytokine storm that caused ARDs and pneumonia (perhaps they are merely making a distinction between ARDs and pneumonia), and the reason South Korea, Raoult and Zelenko were all using antibiotics was to kill secondary infections primarily in the lungs.

                  https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/what-coronavirus-does-to-the-lungs

                • @The Cominator

                  Let’s suppose HCQ does work as a working hypothesis. Sounds like a more modern version of the old malaria drug quinine and indeed originally used for that purpose. Malaria is caused by a single-celled parasite, not quite a bacterium, something more complex than a bacterium, while the Wu Flu is caused by a virus, something much less complex than a bacterium. How is that possible?

                  A very good guess is that in both cases it affects how pathogen interacts with the body. The “interface”. Two very different things can have the same interface like how you can plug a lot of different devices into a power socket.

                  So the story is that the malaria parasite links up with the hemoglobine in the red blood cells and the Wu Flu virus also links up with them, and quinine attacks those surface proteins that are able to do the linking.

                  This does pass the smell test to me. Does not matter if you want to plug a microwave or a computer into a power socket, if the socket is stuffed with bubble gum, no plugging. The computer or the microwave do not have to be similar to each other for this. This explains the really unusual situation that a drug works for every different pathogens. Clearly it must attack the interface, not the pathogen.

                  If all this is right, then the idea of the pathogen fucking with hemoglobyne leading to hypoxia does make perfect sense.

                  So I would say it is not merely may be true but very likely to be true.

                • The Cominator says:

                  “Let’s suppose HCQ does work as a working hypothesis. ”

                  The effectiveness of HCQ (at least early and with zinc) is not a hypothesis but empirical fact. Raising doubt about this is an enemy lie.

                  “So the story is that the malaria parasite links up with the hemoglobine in the red blood cells and the Wu Flu virus also links up with them, and quinine attacks those surface proteins that are able to do the linking.

                  This does pass the smell test to me. Does not matter if you want to plug a microwave or a computer into a power socket, if the socket is stuffed with bubble gum, no plugging. The computer or the microwave do not have to be similar to each other for this. This explains the really unusual situation that a drug works for every different pathogens. Clearly it must attack the interface, not the pathogen.

                  If all this is right, then the idea of the pathogen fucking with hemoglobyne leading to hypoxia does make perfect sense.”

                  Quite possibly.

                • BC says:

                  The hypoxia and multiple organ failures thing is a new party line, it may even be true. But earlier everything I’ve read is that the primary cause of death was due to suffocation due to a cytokine storm that caused ARDs and pneumonia (perhaps they are merely making a distinction between ARDs and pneumonia), and the reason South Korea, Raoult and Zelenko were all using antibiotics was to kill secondary infections primarily in the lungs.

                  The evidence for cytokine storm is weak, appears to be more of a reaction to the lungs being shredded by a bacterial infection or from ventilator damage caused by the organ having been weakened by hypoxia. Antibiotics are effective because lungs that have been damaged by hypoxia are very likely to pickup bacterial infections.

                  Inability to absorb oxygen as a result of Wu Flu does not appear to involve secondary bacterial infection.

                  Not what I was saying. The secondary bacterial infection is likely caused by the hypoxia which leads to pneumonia and death in some cases.

                  No one is sure why there’s an inability to absorb oxygen from the Wu Flu. But we continue to find evidence that things that effect the blood like HCQ and even nicotine has some beneficial effect in fighting this virus.

                • BC says:

                  Dr. Cameron Kyle-Sidell pretty much convinced me that ADRS isn’t going on with COVID.

                  https://youtu.be/k9GYTc53r2o

                • Not Tom says:

                  The hypoxia and multiple organ failures thing is a new party line

                  It’s not new, the establishment just took a long time to figure it out, which is why they killed so many people on ventilators. Here’s a post from late March:

                  https://texags.com/forums/84/topics/3102444

                  Several references to hypoxia and multiple organ failure, and that’s well over a month old. Also mentions cytokine storms. Makes an assumption that CS causes the organ failure, which may or may not be true and the exact order isn’t really important. Point is, we knew a month ago that the pneumonia was due to lung damage and that the storms/organ failure were due to hypoxia.

                  And cytokine storms causing pneumonia? Please tell me that’s a typo because it never happens in that order.

                • @The Cominator

                  “The effectiveness of HCQ (at least early and with zinc) is not a hypothesis but empirical fact. Raising doubt about this is an enemy lie. ”

                  These things aren’t 100% or 0%.

                  Dr. Zelenko’s results are indeed very good. He published them somewhere early March. Trump started talking about the FDA fast-tracking HCQ 19 March. Zelenko reported results earlier, there was a video on 17 March but I think he said stuff earlier than that.

                  Do you know when Russia approved it? 16 April. Started buying it from India the next day. Nearly a month later. Russia isn’t controlled by the Cathedral. What was the reason they were dragging their feet? There was something that they had to check before, I think.

                  China, not controlled by the Cathedral, reported mixed results. Likely because not early and not with zinc.

                  Hungary, only half-controlled by the Cathedral, reported happily that they are sitting on a large stockpile of HCQ… then did not do much with it and currently are touting blood plasma treatment.

                  So yeah, with these updates, I still think it is very likely it works, like 90%.

                  But don’t do that black or white, binary, yes or no thinking. That leads nowhere. There are these above data that give reason for some – not too much – doubt.

                  Admittedly, it is the social kind of evidence, not the scientific kind, maybe all they point to that there is a lot of dumbfuckery to go around in Russia, China and Hungary as well. This is why I call it a weak update. Scientific evidence, which Zelenko supplied, is a strong kind of evidence. Hence my 90%.

                • BC says:

                  @TheDividualist

                  https://victorygirlsblog.com/texas-nursing-home-media-ignores-good-news/

                  When Armstrong began administering Hydroxychloroquine to it was controversial but appeared promising.

                  “If we didn’t make the decision quickly then we could potentially lose 15 to 20% of the residents which was not an option,” said the Doctor.

                  Armstrong’s approach was to begin administering Hydroxychloroquine a Zpac and Zinc just as soon as a resident first started showing symptoms.

                  —–
                  Hydroxychloroquine works. It’s only being suppressed because they’re pushing that Remdesivir crap.

      • jim says:

        Yet another new flu, yet another bad flu season, maybe the worst in quite a while. But we have never responded, even to much worse plagues, by locking down the healthy and shutting down the economy, only by quarantining the sick and excluding travelers, as South Korea did.

        • Pooch says:

          Why did we lockdown the healthy this time? I can see in the US it’s blantantly obvious the motive to extend lockdown is to maximize damage to Trump’s economy and unemployment levels. But why in Europe and Australia?

          • jim says:

            Impact, power, priestly hostility to merchants – observe the failure to shut down the obvious vector, public transport, and to clean the streets. At least the communist party takes cleanliness to be holiness and is hostile to the traditional dirtiness of Chinese and Chinese cities, while the Cathedral takes dirtiness to be holy.

            Disease is unholy, member of the priestly class are holy, members of the merchant class are unholy. It is a shutdown of stuff they find unholy. “Beaches are bad, actually. They mean nothing, produce nothing, have no history, no language, no thought, no purpose. If you like the beach, you are the exhausted subject of late capitalism, literally the Last Man (or Woman).” So they shut down the beach, but not the subway. As with so many past plagues, they irrationally escalate the holiness, rather than blocking travelers and quarantining the sick. It is just that in former plague related explosions of holiness, they did stuff like self flagellation, but now the private economy is unholy.

            You are making the error of attributing rationality, cohesion, forward planning, and intelligence to a blind demon of entropic status signaling. They are just evil and insane, creating harm for sheer malice.

          • Not Tom says:

            We locked down the healthy because we let it get out of control to the point where contact tracing was impossible.

            I won’t pretend it’s an exact science but there are 4 stages of pandemic response:

            1. Prevention – locking down travel which we should have done as soon as we knew this was going around in China.
            2. Containment, i.e. contact tracing, i.e. what you claim we should be doing right now and what SK and Taiwan have been doing very successfully because they did it immediately after local cases were discovered.
            3. Suppression – lockdowns ranging from extreme (China quarantining all of Hubei) to very mild (US social distancing, closing non-essential businesses)
            4. Mitigation – when so many are sick and dying that even suppression is hopeless, then often a lot of stuff is reopened, but this isn’t a good thing because it’s every man for himself. Extreme triage, if you get sick you probably won’t get a hospital bed, you have to assume everywhere you go is a hot zone. Economically this is even more disastrous than stage 3, because although people are technically working, it’s similar to dealing with a massive unstoppable crime wave; no one is secure, no one plans anything long term.

            We could have stopped this in stage 1. We should have stopped it in stage 2. But we failed, so we adopted stage 3 plans in the hope of avoiding stage 4. And we were successful. At least most places were. New cases are finally declining.

            Some of you think that there’s an overarching goal to make the lockdowns go on forever, or until the election, or until some silly criteria is met like having a vaccine. I don’t believe that to be the case. The goal is to keep things on lockdown just long enough to safely transition from suppression back to containment, which is much cheaper and less disruptive. Almost everyone wants that, but they disagree on exactly when that should happen and what the prerequisites are.

            The handful of people saying we should stay on lockdown for another two years until a vaccine is found are quacks. The ones saying we can never do contact tracing, or that the virus isn’t severe enough to warrant it, are also quacks, and are generally the same sorts of people who insist that crops will rot in the field unless we import another 2 million migrant workers.

            Jim is right, ordinarily we quarantine the sick and leave the healthy alone. And had we not fucked up royally, that’s exactly what we would be doing. But we did fuck up, we failed totally at containment, so now we are doing suppression until we can implement containment. Containment is, was, and always will be the goal. Suppression is terrible, and it’s a constant reminder of how incompetent our government is that we had to implement it, but it’s nevertheless a temporary measure intended to give us time to implement the containment measures we should have had in the first place. And maybe, the optimist in me says, those containment protocols will actually survive until the next pandemic and we’ll actually be prepared for that one.

            Perhaps one is inclined to believe that our leaders “failed” at containment on purpose because they knew we would have no choice but to attempt suppression and thought that would hurt Trump. I wouldn’t put it past them to try something like that. However, I also haven’t seen any proof. I remain resolutely ambivalent on that question.

            • BC says:

              “The handful of people saying we should stay on lockdown for another two years until a vaccine is found are quacks.”

              The overwhelming view of the leftist hive mind on reddit is waiting for the vaccine or just shutting down hard enough and it will end. I think it’s mainstream leftist thought geared towards continual lock down.

            • jim says:

              > We could have stopped this in stage 1. We should have stopped it in stage 2. But we failed, so we adopted stage 3 plans in the hope of avoiding stage 4. And we were successful. At least most places were. New cases are finally declining.

              There is no correlation between cases declining and lockdown. Cases start declining when superspreader subgroups reach herd immunity. Dirty crowded places reach herd immunity in superspreader subpopulations faster.

              No one has ever applied lockdown, except in the sense of very severe travel restrictions, even in far more deadly diseases. It does not work.

              The hospital crisis was iatrogenic, and now that word has got around that ventilators are an alarmingly deadly last resort, and you should be using oxygen masks, there is no shortage of ventilators.

              Sweden hit herd immunity on March the 31st, without doing anything special or unusual.

              Deaths rose in a perfect exponential curve at the same rate as everywhere – a factor of ten every nine days, while places with lockdown had a factor of ten every eleven days.

              Deaths then fell in a good exponential curve, at a factor of ten every forty days. The two exponentials together form a clear logistic curve. Sweden displays a logistic curve, the signature of an epidemic simply burning itself out in the standard usual fashion after killing fewer people than in a relatively mild new flu.

              Unreasonably high death rates from Wu Flu are iatrogenic. Sweden has come through with a strategy of let it burn, combined with sound medical treatment of the sick.

              Because lockdown targeted white male taxpayers, who are not part of the superspreader subpopulation, it only had slight effect on the rate of exponential growth. The curve simply did not bend by much at all.

            • The Cominator says:

              “Still shilling for lockdowns”

              You have to go back.

              Jim time for him to get the CR treatment.

  14. Icon says:

    Right on the money Jim!

    We are just looking at the tip of the iceberg.

    I’ve seen several videos now where farmers are being forced to plow under and euthanize their harvest in an effort to destroy our food supply.

    Aboriginal Americans were genocided in part by eradicating their food supply (the buffalo) on orders from the US gov. Now they use the same strategy again.

    No doubt they claimed to keep Aboriginals “safe” then like they keep us safe now. Safety is Slavery.

    I’ve taken to tweeting Constitutional clauses on politician feeds to remind them of free speech, assembly, religion. And they are taken down as fast as they go up.

    The Bill of Rights is like sunlight to these vampire politicians who are just Jewish sock puppets.

    • jim says:

      >Jewish sock puppets

      Our Harvard Yale elite was treasonous and hostile even back when Jews were not allowed in Harvard and Yale, because those institutions were explicitly and overtly Christian, though already holier than Jesus, and rapidly becoming holier than God.

      Hillary is not a Jewish sock puppet. Soros and Nuland are Hillary sock puppets.

  15. BC says:

    Ventilator changes from Germany:

    https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/929609

    Over 48 hours, eight patients arrived at the COVID-19 unit in Neustadt, Germany — four from an overwhelmed hospital in Strasbourg, France, and four who were transferred from other hospitals across Germany. All were critically ill, deeply sedated, and receiving lung-protective ventilation. It was clear to Gerhard Laier-Groeneveld, MD, a pulmonologist specializing in respiratory failure, that for all eight of his new patients, the long-trusted ventilation protocol wasn’t working. So, he made a controversial call.

    He ordered that positive end-expiratory pressure (PEEP) be set to zero, inspiratory time to 1.4 seconds, pCO2 to less than 35 mmHg, and that tidal volume be increased to at least 800 mL. The regimen runs in direct contrast with widely held ventilation strategies and current guidance on COVID-19 treatment.

    Within 20 hours of passive ventilation, one of the French patients, a woman who had been intubated for 14 days, was able to be extubated. Another was extubated on the second day. The remaining six are doing well in the ICU but are too weak to breathe on their own for more than a few hours, owing to the fact that they arrived under such heavy sedation. After 2½ weeks without any deaths, Groeneveld decided to share his strategy via Medscape Consult, a crowdsourced social media platform where clinicians share and discuss real cases.

    “COVID-19 is not ARDS [acute respiratory distress syndrome],” Groeneveld posted. “And it does need a different strategy of ventilation,” he added later in an interview with Medscape Medical News. Although his patients were hypoxemic, CT scans showed pneumonia “with some homogeneous air space consolidation that does not respond to PEEP or prone positioning,” he wrote. Physicians from all over the world responded, thanking him for his advice and asking for clarifications.

    It’s now been 4 weeks since the first patients arrived from France, and still there there have been no mortalities at the Neustadt COVID-19 unit. But many physicians are wary of abandoning decades of research-backed practices for this new approach in the face of a little-known virus. Still, Groeneveld insists the current protocols are inadequate, even dangerous, for treating COVID-19. And he’s not alone.

    Groeneveld posted to Consult just days after Luciano Gattinoni, MD, and his colleagues wrote an editorial arguing that COVID-19 has two distinct phenotypes, type L and type H. Type H, which is similar in pathology and treatment to ARDS, was only present in 20% to 30% of their 150 patients. Gattinoni argues that for the remaining 70% with type L, standard ventilation protocols are not productive and may even create injuries that cause COVID-19 to progress. The difference, Groeneveld says, between Gattinoni’s approach, detailed in a recent JAMA editorial, and his own is that Groeneveld believes passive ventilation is the best course of treatment for all patients, even ARDS-like type H.

    A physician on the front line in New York City has also questioned ventilation protocols because he found that COVID-19 symptoms could often present more like high-altitude pulmonary edema (HAPE) than ARDS. However, clinicians with experience treating both HAPE and COVID-19 have pushed back on this observation and have argued that the comparison between the diseases is potentially risky.

    Other experts say it’s too soon to abandon ventilation strategies that have been established through years of clinical trials. “Regardless of whether COVID-19 behaves like ARDS or not, we as physicians have been thinking about judicious use of mechanical ventilation for several decades,” William Checkley, MD, PhD, a pulmonologist and critical care specialist at Johns Hopkins, told Medscape. “I don’t think we should stray away from some principles of mechanical ventilation.”

    The Case for Passive Ventilation Since 2011, Groeneveld has been researching an alternative to lung-protective ventilation — a way to relieve pressure on the respiratory muscles and avoid sedation using noninvasive oxygen therapies. Long before the current pandemic, he regarded the mortality rates among ARDS patients who undergo lung-protective ventilation — 35% to 50% — as unacceptable.

    Now with COVID-19, the mortality rates are far worse. The UK’s Intensive Care National Audit and Research Center (ICNARC) reported higher than normal mortalities: more than two thirds of 1053 COVID-19 patients who underwent mechanical ventilation died. This is almost twice the mortality rate of patients who received mechanical ventilation for viral pneumonia between 2017 and 2019.

    “If we are to believe our colleagues in New York, 80% of the patients die on ventilator therapy. We have to change this therapy right now,” Groeneveld told Medscape.

    He’s been testing passive ventilation without sedation in patients with respiratory failure for almost a decade and says he has achieved mortality rates as low as 2% to 8%. So when the pandemic hit Europe, he suspected his treatment approach could help. He left his job and home in Oberhausen, Germany, because the hospital there wouldn’t admit foreign COVID-19 patients. In Neustadt, he could treat patients coming in from overwhelmed hospitals in Italy, Spain, and France.

    Patients who arrive at Neustadt for COVID-19 are “treated with oxygen, mask ventilation, and high tidal volumes to meet respiratory drive,” he said. Groeneveld and his team avoid intubation, regardless of saturated oxygen levels, until mental function is compromised. “We are sure that noninvasive ventilation is very effective and many people do not need intubation and sedatives,” he said.

    Still, many physicians, such as Johns Hopkins’ Checkley, are resistant to forgo ARDS protocols.

    “The importance of limiting tidal volumes in mechanically ventilated patients,” Checkley said, “is to avoid creating volume trauma ― same goes with pressure. The risk of liberalizing the amount of tidal volume delivered could be problematic in the sense that you could induce injury.” For patients with adequate respiratory system compliance, Checkley doesn’t think physicians should increase tidal volumes above 8 mL/kg of predicted body weight.

    Todd Rice, MD, a pulmonologist and critical care specialist at Vanderbilt University, is more skeptical. “To me, in my hospital it doesn’t matter if you have ARDS. We do lung-protective ventilation on everybody because that’s what the research supports,” he said in an interview. In lung-protective studies, high tidal volume is often the control arm, Rice said. “High tidal volumes look better, their oxygen and CO2 levels are often better. But when the studies were done, we saw they died more often,” he said.

    It’s true that studies from the ARDS Network show a higher mortality rate with tidal volume at 12 mL/kg of body weight, but Groeneveld argues that the high tidal volumes used in these studies are not a proxy for his strategy. In these studies, all patients were sedated and were receiving excessive fluids, and no one was extubated early. His approach uses highly individualized tidal volumes (usually >800 mL) determined on the basis of the disease, not body weight. The priority is to keep patients awake and passively ventilated so they aren’t breathing on their own and to extubate as soon as possible.

    Despite controversy around the elevated tidal volume and low PEEP associated with Groeneveld’s approach, most physicians agree that limiting sedation as much as possible and delaying intubation is best for the patient.

    For Groeneveld’s patients still in the ICU, daily T-piece trials are being conducted, and when the trials are successful, they proceed with extubation. There are now seven patients in the ICU. All underwent intubation before arriving at Neustadt, and there still have been no mortalities. But this victory isn’t enough to change the scientific community’s opinion, Groeneveld acknowledges. There needs to be a direct comparison between the two ventilation protocols. So, on May 1, he’s again moving, this time to the University of Göttingen, where there are more COVID-19 patients and he can compare the two protocols in the same disease. If the medical community doesn’t adjust now, Groeneveld says, “will we repeat this disaster every couple of years when a new virus arrives?”

    • Mister Grumpus says:

      An MD degree doesn’t make you brave, obviously.

      These guys aren’t about saving lives, but getting paid and not getting sent to the principal’s office.

      • BC says:

        Openly fighting the Cathedral without state support generally results in the end of your career and increasingly chance of a less than random death. People know the score.

      • The Cominator says:

        I’ll somewhat back BC up on this one even though hes a panicmonger, you can’t really openly fight the cathedral in medicine.

        You’ll be deemed to be acting below the “standard of care” be sued and lose your medical license. Zelenko can because his patients are forbidden by the laws of Hasidic Omerta from informing upon him to outside authorities on pain of being kicked out of Hasidic society.

        • Mister Grumpus says:

          Thank you for helping me understand “the institutions” a little bit better.

          Also, thank you for that special angle on why Dr Zelenko had to be Hasidic. And more generally why Trump surely has to cling to them as well.

  16. Carlylean Restorationist says:

    ‘Jim’ forgets he’s pretending not to be a libertarian and claims the biggest killer in the 20th century was Government…… o…k…..

    but it’s understandable, because what lurks just beneath the surface here is “oy vey it’s another haulaucaust” Warren Wilhelm’s trying to murder us awll!

    • jim says:

      I am in favor of a strong ruler. It is weak rulers that find that they need to murder millions of their friends and supporters.

      And I am happy to see Governor Andrew Cuomo murdering thousands of his supporters. If he was president, would be murdering millions, and would be in a better position to murder his enemies, though he would probably murder more of his friends.

      In this crisis, government has killed far more people than Wu Flu has. But Trump has been saving lives. He made Fauci step out of the way, and, as president, issued commands directly to the private sector, to get testing and hydroxychloroquine directly to those who need it, bypassing the vast, labyrinthine, faceless, lethargic, and corrupt presidential bureaucracy through which innumerable faceless bureaucrats meddled disruptively with the private sector. He met personally with CEOs, and is bringing those he worked with on stage in the public briefings. Fascism works when swift and unusual collective action is needed, communism fails, and in failing, finds it necessary to murder friends and supporters. Fauci is socialism, and socialism was, as usual, killing people. Trump’s public/private partnership is fascism, and it is saving lives.

      Similarly, the space force is a direct connection from Trump to Musk, bypassing NASA.

      The range safety officer necessarily has Kingly power over a launch. NASA did not want Musk to launch, so when they appointed the range safety officer, they gave Musk hell, objecting to Musk’s policy of launching early and often, of launching spacecraft that were likely to fail order to find out how they would fail. With the space force providing the range safety officer, it is a lot easier for Musk to launch rockets that he knows are likely to fail. America’s space program is transitioning from NASA’s failing and incompetent bureaucracy, to classic fascism, the sovereign working through the military and CEOs, as Mussolini did. Fascism is getting rockets up, socialism was trapping us on earth.

      As we saw in the recent cryogenic test, Musk’s policy is sometimes dangerous. In the course of settling Mars, we will probably lose a few people, perhaps quite a lot of people. But those lost will be heroes who took risks for themselves, their friends, their people, their country, their sovereign, and for God, not victims murdered by their friends.

      Libertarians are right about communism, socialism, bureaucracy and regulation. They are wrong about family, race, nation, and the necessity for collective action. They are also wrong about judicial authority and the rule of law. Rule of law is necessarily rule by judges, and we are better off with one King three thousand miles away, than a thousand kings three miles away. Laws cannot rule, but a sovereign can rule in accordance with the will of Gnon, or contrary to the will of Gnon. As Governor William Bradford of the Puritan settlement said, socialism and communism is contrary to the will of Gnon. Hence socialism needs killing fields, of which we had an unprecedented number during the twentieth century.

      Observe that on getting us into space, and in dealing with the Wu Flu crisis, Trump rules through men with faces.

      • simplyconnected says:

        Funny that this also holds at the smaller scales.
        The physically strong tend to be magnanimous, while the physically weak petty and vindictive. See the stereotype of the tranquil giant.

      • Pooch says:

        Why did Trump wait until now to push Fauci out of the way? I remember end of March Trump was saying all the right things (Flus have killed in the past and we didn’t shut down) and we needed to reopen business by Easter. Then Fauci comes out against it and Trump backs down. Yet now Trump has pushed Fauci to the sideline. What changed between now and then?

        https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-during-fox-news-coronavirus-townhall-signals-desire-to-ease-guidelines-we-have-to-get-back-to-work.amp

        • The Cominator says:

          As I’ve said the cucking out of reopen by easter and cucking again to Fauci was the worst most baffling mistake I’ve ever seen Trump make, i cannot see any way it could be 4d chess.

        • jim says:

          Nothing changed – Trump sidelined Fauci, the FDA and the CDC as soon as their disastrous incompetence or evil malice became obvious with testing. But he continued to put them in front of the cameras and praise them to the skies.

          Then, once his new apparatus for dealing with Wu Flu was in place, working, and answerable directly to him, openly sidelined them. If he had openly sidelined them any earlier, would have been blamed for their evil deeds.

          • The Cominator says:

            Okay why do you think he backed out of “reopen by Easter”… the economic damage probably would have been managable if he did so (and revoked the emergency orders the Dem governors are using as the legal basis for this)… Now its probably going to be severe going into his election…

            • jim says:

              Because Cuomo is still murdering people. Trump cannot re-open till the killing stops, because if he re-opens before the killing stops, the press will unanimously blame him for those deaths.

              • The Cominator says:

                People care more about the economy than other peoples (predominantly NAM) parents dying. I also find this whole shutting down all social venues situation intolerable…

                He should have just tweeted that Corona isn’t severe but it is if your government intends to use it to murder you… something like that.

                • jim says:

                  Trump does not launch a counter attack till he has all his ducks in a row:

                  He is about to take the Democratic Governors on: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1257069539294171140

                  The most urgent and important thing is to take out the deep state, but he may well lose the election if the economy does not come back in time for the election, so re-opening is getting urgent. I expect he will reopen in time for the economy to back by the election and, after re-opening, take out the deep state. Trump Junior has been tweeting about the deep state, Trump is tweeting about re-opening. He is a fighter, and he is not sitting on his hands in the face of these plots against him. Fauci was out of power mighty fast, and is now off the stage. More is coming.

                  These things are taking a frustratingly long time, but stuff is getting done.

                • Mister Grumpus says:

                  @Cominator:
                  “He should have just tweeted that Corona isn’t severe but it is if your government intends to use it to murder you… something like that.”

                  My best guess is that it must be impossible to say that, however truthfully, without coming off whiny and bitchy and snarky and weak. At least from a hostile media.

                  But there must also be ways to imply exactly this “into” people’s minds without saying it out loud the whiny bitchy snarky way. That must be what’s going on here. For example, who can prove that that the Twitter feed “Hydroxychloroquine News” isn’t one of his guys, earning a stipend?

                  Trump amazes me with his ability to do genius-tier stuff, but without the emotional need (typically sprouting from insecurity and bitterness I suppose) to make sure to loudly tell everyone how much of a genius he his, as he’s doing it.

                  If he wants us to think or realize something, he’ll let us think we figured it out ourselves.

                • R7 Rocket says:

                  Being a showman, President Trump doesn’t tell people, he shows people instead.

    • R7 Rocket says:

      Communist Revolutionary is back!

      I guess he got tired of whiteknighting for the whores all the time.

      • jim says:

        He has been back for a while. I have been silently deleting his repetitious spam, but this one was responsive. If we are authoritarians, he asks, why echo the libertarian complaint about communism?

        It is a reasonable question, that deserves an answer. Short answer: Because under communism, faceless and anonymous bureaucrats are all powerful, the peasant’s cows get killed, his seed corn gets eaten, you have to queue for bread and separately queue for butter, and there is usually no butter, and often no bread. This is the practical result of the theory that capital has no value, and entrepreneurship has no value, the practical result of rationalizing envy and covetousness with murderous lies, and the practical result of the priestly class taking power over the possessions of the merchant class. When the warrior class takes the possessions of the merchant class, they generally leave enough that there will be more to take next time. When the priestly class takes the possessions of the merchant class, taking their stuff is holy, therefore taking it all is even holier.

        • Carlylean Restorationist says:

          That’s a lie.

          I’ve not been here for a while. I mildly enjoyed a couple of articles, but had nothing to add/complain-about………. but not ‘been here’ for probably six months or more………

          The idea that the current situation is fundamentally a problem of Big Government is absurd: the current situation is one of everyone going everywhere all the time, everything being interconnected, and so on………. we need nation-states: we need to produce KEY strategic resources at the local level, because why, seriously, would a foreign producer ever send ‘PPE’ abroad if they need it too?

          As for the government response, I guess we’re about to find out what happens when you dramatically ramp up state borrowing while shutting down half the productive economy…….. it *might* be the case that Mises was right all along, and it *might* be the case that MMT is right and money is fake fundamentally………. but we’re about to find out.

          • jim says:

            > > He has been back for a while. I have been silently deleting his repetitious spam

            > That’s a lie.

            I do not remember how many of your comments I have silently censored, or when I silently censored them, but I silently censored one shortly before I wrote the above, and while you have been away for a while, pretty sure it was nothing like six months. I have spared my readers no end of repetitious crap. My perception is that you have been a continual and unceasing irritation, and I was rather pleased to see you asking a reasonable question for once, instead of loaded questions intended to presuppose a false consensus on Marxism and progressivism.

            The trouble is that I am reluctant to censor anyone wholesale, and therefore have to read stuff that I spare my readers, and reading your stuff to check whether or not it is the same old same old wastes my time.

            > The idea that the current situation is fundamentally a problem of Big Government is absurd

            Government intervention, as in South Korea, to quarantine carriers and restrict travel is necessary and appropriate until the new flu goes away, as new flues always go away eventually. But the crisis is not yet another new flu, deadlier than most but less deadly than some. The crisis is big government using this as justification to wage war on those it hates and seeks to harm, to release nonwhite murderers, robbers, and rapists from jail, and to lock up law abiding tax paying whites, to shut the beaches while keeping the subways open.

            The greenies hate beaches and natural parks just as Peta hates animals. Progressives hate the creation of value, because priests hate merchants, and because they do not see it as creation of value, but as white people hogging all the value that magically pops up on supermarket shelves. And so, disease being unholy, bumping off a bunch of people in old people’s homes creates a justification for an explosion of holiness. Hence Cuomo’s campaign of murder. Yet another new flu is killing people only in the usual numbers that new flues so often do. Governor Cuomo, big government in person, is murdering people in considerably more than the usual numbers, to provide justification for shutting down people and activities that offend against his superior holiness.

            It is not a disease crisis. It is a crisis of big government.

          • R7 Rocket says:

            As usual, Communist Revolutionary fails to mention the release of non-White criminals while lone Whiteson beaches get arrested.

            And Communist Revolutionary reveals himself to be an urbanite faggot who doesn’t know where his food comes from.

  17. Mike says:

    When this all started I just figured this would be the chance to test out all my preps over the years. Now I’m getting tired of this. Not fun anymore.

    I go to the local Home Depot to get some small wood screws to fix the busted dresser, only to find out that the place closes early at 6PM. O really? 10 minutes should be plenty of time to get one small bag of screws.

    Fucking guard tells me I can’t go that way, have to go through a specific door. Ok. I walk over and go to the door. Now I am waiting in line behind TWO people because apparently only so many people are allowed in the store at a time. Now, with 5 minutes to go, what difference does 2-3 people make in a big ass Home Depot? The girl up front asks me what I’m there for. I tell her, as politely as I can, that I just needed a bag of screws. We get let in, and I managed to find and buy some screws. Yay.

    I missed the massive panic buying thing, as I already had a large stock of food and asswipe bought and paid for over the past several years. So I just stayed home. Now that I finally go out for a little shopping I wonder if this country is literally a police state now.

    Will any of the assholes who instigated this mess pay for their crimes? Doubt it.

    • pdimov says:

      >Not fun anymore.

      https://twitter.com/Bry_Mac/status/1250155077668605954

      Not that I don’t feel the same way. But objectively, one can’t help but notice how… impatient modern people are. Imagine the same situation but with a virus having 20% mortality.

      • Pooch says:

        20% mortality would mean we would all know people who died from the virus, some very closely. We would be wary to leave the house because we would be witnessing death with our own eyes and wouldn’t need government or the news to tell us otherwise.

      • The Cominator says:

        Im impatient (well okay im very impatient anyway) because i was certain it was horseshit from the moment they closed things down here and correctly saw it as a leftist plot.

        A Mongol siege would be a different animal.

      • Mike says:

        I’ve been patient. Normally quarantine is for isolating the sick so the healthy can keep on with their lives. They’re isolating everyone. And most of the so called protective measures are kabuki theater. For one, look at these stupid thermometer checks. So many people are asymptomatic that such checks are pointless. Take grocery stores as another. You go shopping for food and take all these measures to wear a mask and use gloves, but if the store is contaminated you’re exposed regardless as your food is most likely contaminated too.

        Then you have the ridiculous rules where somebody out for a walk alone gets hassled by cops, who then violate social distancing rules to take this poor bastard into custody. It seems like our rulers are set on coming up with the most ridiculous and ineffective rules as a way to ritualistically humiliate us. It would be one thing if the virus actually was 20% lethal and the people in charge at least had the appearance of being competent and knowledgeable. Its another entirely when all their actions to date have proven their incompetence. First with ineffectual half-measures, then with equally ineffective overreaction. I can be patient with the former scenario, but not the latter.

        I do not trust the people who rule over us at all. I do not trust their “facts” and “figures.” I do not trust their models. I do not trust their recommendations and do not believe their edicts to be effective. When this burns out and we don’t have the massive body count they predicted at the beginning, I will not believe their claims that what was done to us in any way helped it. They have no credibility with me.

  18. Karl says:

    Lockdown caused a lot of economic damage. Any politician who ordered a lockdown anywhere is (or soon will be) asked why lockdown was ordered. The only defense of lockdown is that wu flu is dangerous. The higher the death rate the better for any politician who has ordered lockdown.

    Merkel’s government initially considered wu flu harmless, no reason to do anything. Then suddenly they decided to lockdown the economy. By and large people applauded. Now many are feeling severe economic pain (soon many more). Merkel is now in bind. What can she do? Admit that wu flu is harmless and that she needlessly forced a few million citizens into bancruptcy? Nah, much better to say that wu flu is terrible and therefore lockdown was and is necessary.

    Isn’t any state governor who ordered a lockdown facing the some problem?

    • Pooch says:

      Yes. No state governor is nor even Trump is admitting the virus isn’t dangerous. However, Republican governors are starting to reopen their states while Democrat governors mostly seem to not be inclined to reopen as fast, presumably to maximize political damage to Trump. What is the dynamic in Europe? Is Germany starting to reopen yet?

      • Karl says:

        The situation in Germany is crazy. Initially all non-essential shops were closed (everything except shops selling food, medicine or soap). This week shops were allowed to reopen if they had an area of less than 800 squaremeters. Somehow they reasoned that you are more likely to be infected in a larger shop. Of course, the large shops took this to the courts. In some states. they won, in some they lost.

        Manufacturing business are usually open, unless the had a case of wu flu. Then they were closed, unless they were deemed essential.

        Gyms, theaters, schools and such are still closed. Restaurants are somewhat closed. they are allowed to sell food, but you have to take the food and eat it somewhere else.

        Denstists are closed – unless for emergencies. If you find a black spot on one of your teeth and conclude that it is a cavity that needs filling, you are out of luck. Fillings are no emergency (if you are in pain, you can get pain killers). So your tooth will keep rotting. You can’t even leave the country to get the tooth fixed somewhere else.

        Barber shops are closed, like almost anything else where people have to come within striking distance of each other.

        More than a quarter of all employees are on short time (10 million) as the economy tanked. Just because a manufacturing business is allowed to operate doesn’t mean that anyone will buy their stuff.

        Of course, hospitals are largely empty. There aren’t enough wu flu patients to fill them, even though Germany was importing some form crowded hospitals in Italy and France. Any surgery that isn’t an emergency is postponed indefinitely as the hospital beds might be need for wu flu patients at some time. So we have an epidemic while our physicians and nurses are out of work or on short time.

        “Short time” in Germany means that an employer doesn’t need his employees. Instead of firing them, he notifies the government who will then pay 60% of the salary for the time they are not working.

        • Oog en Hand says:

          If you have an infected tooth, put a bag with hot water against your cheek. This will keep the germs to an acceptable level, and your immune system can do the rest. Take vitamins.

          • Antibiotics always worked for me. Everything else was torture. Mostly because I did not catch them at the black spot phase rather in the my face swelling like a ball phase.

    • The Cominator says:

      Hence Trump himself for the 1st time acting like a slimy politician by still talking about how many would have died…

      • Mister Grumpus says:

        It’s sad but let’s keep our eyes open.

        Let’s not sperg too much over the fact that bullshit is important, and that sometimes you have to go along with the deluded crowd, first, before you can get your hands on the the talking stick and faux-realize, out loud, “oh damn look at this, far out, I was just talking to the prime minister of Sweden on the phone — nice lady, strong feminist, you’d like her — and you’d never guess what she told me.”

        You can use other people as “bad cops”, but you can also use others as “good cops” or “smart cops” too. I think. Maybe. Somehow. If you got the chops.

        There’s “cucking to Fauci”, OK sure, but there’s also using Fauci as the “entry character” figurehead for a narrative that has already left the proverbial barn before you were able to stop it. If the media unlocked the barn at midnight, and chased the horse out, then at least use a guy who’s a short little weasel with a whiny voice, so you can knock him later if you need to.

        We’re anons here. We’re all busted eventually, but for now we can suspend our disbelief just enough to still feel a good about of intellectual freedom. Imagine being out in front during this though, with kids and grandkids, known by everyone, who you love very much and need to protect somehow, especially when you’re gone.

        Let’s not fall for the “if only Trump were as smart as me” trap. Anything but that. It’s a whole different game under the lights than from the Fox Sports Grill 1000 miles away.

  19. Leon says:

    Are all the old folks in the New York homes and other assorted vulnerable cases in the hospitals that are dying off mostly white? What is the angle here? A lot of the lefty decisions don’t make sense even if one just views them as malevolent and trying to gain total control. Is the left having so much infighting that they can’t agree on what to do?

    • Theshadowedknight says:

      They are trying to grab power, not be seen as grabbing power, and be more holy than everyone else. Conflicting priorities, sheer insanity, and institutional incompetence all combining to result in their worst possible outcome.

    • Oog en Hand says:

      Intersectionality, horseshoe. Sweden and the Netherlands reach the same conclusions.

    • The Cominator says:

      Much higher proportion of basketball Americans and amnesty Americans than the general population. Old Republicans tend to go South.

  20. BC says:

    Wu Flu is an opportunity and justification for locking down people you fear and dislike, and, in some places such as New York City, an opportunity for killing off groups you fear and dislike, hence the seemingly discrepant facts on death rates. Cuomo is refusing to send people to facilities that he does not have authority over, where he cannot make sure that they will die.

    Early on Cuomo sent over some Wu Flu infected people to the ship Mercy in an attempt get the crew and the few patients there infected probably to drive the ship off. They caught them right away before they could infect the ship. This was during the period when the ship was for non COVID people only.

  21. Pooch says:

    Hydroxychloroquine is being widely blocked.

    Interestingly, the Cathedral is supporting remdesivir now, simply because Facui has touted it. I’m guessing the priesthood are all in on some corruption scheme here?

    • The Cominator says:

      Fauci is the ranking priest in the medical sphere bar none, he controls all funding for academic medicine.

      Hydroxychloroquine is to my understanding being used in most places outside NY and NJ (not I think being used in Nevada either) you know all places where they are not deliberately killing people.

    • jim says:

      Rremdesivir is under patent, therefore will be deemed safe and effective, probably with some consideration of safety and very little consideration of actual effectiveness. Hydroxchloroquine is not. Nothing that is not under patent is ever found to be safe and effective in any peer reviewed study.

      • BC says:

        The one large study on Rremdesivir showed lot of heart damage from the drug. Unfortunately I can’t find the study anymore. Everything’s clogged up with propaganda cheering it on.

    • pdimov says:

      Remdesivir doesn’t seem to work. Which is not really a surprise; most medicines don’t work.

      • jim says:

        hydroxychloroquine does work. But it is very clear what the peer reviewed studies will show, unless Trump steps hard on the very holy priesthood.

        • Mister Grumpus says:

          So very tricky this one. Notice that even the rebellious Dr Erickson and his buddy didn’t dare say “hydroxychloroquine” through 60 minutes of video.

          Karen has gone so hard, so chutzpah, so gaslight, against HCL+ZN now that one can’t even report on it without exposing a magnitude of malignancy, contempt and illegitimacy, all through our media AND medical establishment, that’s way scarier and more life-threatening than the coronavirus itself.

          Yet the evidence of HCL+ZN’s effectiveness and affordability is also everywhere now. The twitter feed “Hydroxychloroquine News” is still up. Dr Zelenko is still walking and talking. And even African, Sand People and Latin American health systems are using it to make New York look like Ivory Coast in comparison. Even from within the country, like South Dakota for example, and under a lady governor no less.

          But apparently THIS question has yet to be effectively answered:

          What’s the “kill shot” for this? How can the “observation of this carrot”, en masse, be triggered to instigate a revolution?

          Another dang hashtag?
          180 seconds of carefully edited video squeezed into the Tucker show?
          A magical sentence from the President?

          This is a real life “there is no spoon” and “come with me if you want to live” moment just waiting to happen. But HOW exactly?

          There’s all kinds of gasoline all over the place, and plenty of oxygen too, but quite not the right spark yet.

          • Fred says:

            How can the “observation of this carrot”, en masse, be triggered to instigate a revolution?

            Moldbug called this “thinking in the democratic tense”.

            Keep doing what you’ve always done and you’ll keep getting what you’ve always gotten, which in our case is politically-useless mobs of tea party types who, in any event, are only interested in transferring political power to their daughters (then they wonder why everything just keeps moving left and getting worse).

            Moldbug’s solution is to just convert smart and powerful people; everyone else is irrelevant.

            • The Cominator says:

              Converting most progressives cannot be done in fact they are more likely to convert normies than you are to convert them, need to get someone into enough power who can have them all shot, that person also needs to be willing to have them all shot.

              Moldbug has too much charitable feeling for the Brahminate but to borrow a page from our “Marxist” friends they need to be by and large eliminated as a class.

      • Oliver Cromwell says:

        Are you referring to this?

        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52511270

        Remdesivir doesn’t work. They would not be highlighting “reduction in duration of symptoms” if it reduced mortality rate, and if they know duration of symptoms they know mortality rate. And yet, the implication of the article is: remdesivir is useful, let’s buy lots of remdesivir.

  22. The Cominator says:

    “San Francisco has the same risk factors as New York City; crowding, dirt, public transport, and homelessness; and yet there is an enormous difference in the death rate. Both have comparable levels of Wu Flu among superspreader subpopulations. One place is generating stats consistent with a 1% death rate and grossly inconsistent with a 0.1% death rate, the other place is generating stats grossly inconsistent with a 1% death rate, and consistent with a death rate considerably lower than 0.1%.”

    I also find it strange that the California Democratic leadership has apparently balked at deliberately killing people to make the crisis worse and that New York dems are doing it quite enthusiastically. I had always considered the West Coast dems as the pure embodiment of leftist evil and insanity…

    Maybe its that they genuinely think (as some leftists delude themselves into thinking) they are “good” and they couldn’t reconcile going that far. Its strange.

    • Theshadowedknight says:

      It might just be as simple as proximity to the imperial capital. Someone did up a map of deaths in us as a function of distance from NYC and it was startling. Massachusetts is less than a day’s drive from New York, and all the big death areas were in Democrat cities up north. This shit is culling Northern Democrat voters. Pardon me while I wipe away my tears.

      Still, this could be a ray of sanity from some factions on the left who realize that they might not want to commit suicide. Some parts of the left have been shedding legitimacy badly as this goes on. Maine closing until August? Michigan until June? Unlikely, and once widespread contra-elite civil disobedience becomes the norm (as opposed to “spontaneous” demonstrations that happen to insist that is the will of the people that the elite do what they had been planning to do all along), its only a matter of time before the whole thing collapses.

    • Mister Grumpus says:

      This question of why San Francisco fared so much better than New York City surely has more rewards in store for those who dig deeper into it.

      Of course they’re physically different places in terms of density and weather. No doubt.

      But they both have dense Chinatowns, and both received plenty of infected Chinese people in November and December of 2019.

      And they’re also controlled by different lefty crowds, with different lefty pedigrees, through different types of lefty institutions. New York City’s are at least a century older than SF’s. At least. I don’t understand why that matters, but it evidently does.

      • jim says:

        Different lefties. There is a west coast left and an east coast left. What they did differently needs investigation. I would guess hydroxychloroquine, oxygen masks rather than ventilators and not forcing coughing people sick with Wu Flu into old people’s homes.

        • R7 Rocket says:

          Optimist Progressives vs Pessimist Progressives?

          Silicon Valley vs Dour New England?

          Other commentators brought up distance from the Imperial Capital as well.

          • The Cominator says:

            The thing is normally the West Coast left is far far more insane. And generally more evil in practice because they passionately believe they are doing good and are just so close to immanentizing the eschaton… and I generally thought much of the left’s current insanity was the east coast left getting infected via social media with far more insane west coast ideas + having the general puritan determination of the east coast left.

            So I’m surprised it was the East Coast left that started actively killing people while the West Coast left balked at doing so.

            • jim says:

              Silicon Valley and the San Francisco police force shows a West Coast willingness to make unprincipled exceptions that the East Coast refuses to make.

              The West coast left are proud provincials – piously proclaiming that they adhere to the Harvard line even closer than Harvard, while quietly making unprincipled exceptions in practice. Thus the San Francisco police solve their black problem with good old fashioned jack booted thuggery, and the numerous blacks in the San Francisco establishment somehow fail to notice. I rather think they make an unprincipled exception for Wu Flu, as they make an unprincipled exception for San Francisco police thuggery.

              The reason Silicon Valley was Silicon Valley was the Silicon Valley exception – that Silicon Valley companies could for a time get away with meritocracy, stuffing their engineerettes into public relations and the art harem, albeit the affirmative action exception has ended now, with Google going from really smart to really stupid.

              In LA, they are dying like flies. In the Bay Area, they are fine. Not that many died in the Bay Area, and the Bay Area has hit herd immunity, indicating that reasonably large proportion of the population has been exposed.

              It seems that whatever caused the Silicon Valley exception, also caused a Wu Flu exception.

              What Dr Erickson reports is the ground floor reality in the Bay Area, and a very different reality from LA.

              The death rate from Wu Flu is curiously patchy, like the death rate of communism. Seems to vary along political boundaries.

              In the initial stages of the epidemic, it was entirely plausible that the enormous differences in death rate were driven by the proportion infected. As everywhere approaches herd immunity, this becomes less plausible, though we will not know for sure until we have widespread serological testing.

              To get accurate numbers, we will need to be able to look back on excess deaths during the Wu Flu pandemic, and also have serological data correlated with those excess deaths. At which point people will probably blame gross differences in death rate on different virus strains. Might be true, though then we would need data on the virus strains, which I fear will be unavailable.

        • Not Tom says:

          SF/SC reacted much earlier. Still late and somewhat ineffectually, but much earlier and more seriously than NY.

          I haven’t heard of hydroxychloroquine being widely deployed in California – thought it was NY doing the large scale trials.

          Most importantly: no subway system, no known super spreader events.

          • Mister Grumpus says:

            Dude SF has the BART, CalTrain and plenty of buses.

            But maybe their super-spreaders never take them, and instead the city does “precision gibs drops” directly to them on a block-by-block basis. Gibs in Place.

            That might be the case, because the zillion-dollar condos in SF are just around the corner from Poop Street in the Tenderloin. To keep that going you can’t let those people even walk around the corner.

            Meanwhile, the Bronx is still quite a ways away from the Upper East Side, if you will.

            So yeah, the self-blindered unprincipaled exceptions in the west might be more sharp and intense, if I’m not just talking shit and trying to sound smart. A more proper block-by-block heat map of income, or property value, or whatever, may reveal the truth or falsity of this.

            • jim says:

              I have very recently been in San Francisco. There is no separation between the elite population, the criminal population, and street shitter population. Nor can you go anywhere by your own car, because permanent traffic jam and no parking. So you travel by taxi, or have someone to pick you up and drop you off. The underclass, at some risk to their lives and health, use public transport to go from one shit strewn street to the next in crowded boxes full of criminals and street shitters, so pretty sure Wu Flu went through them all pretty fast, and there is no separation between them and the overclass that gets driven from place to place in safe and comfortable cars that never attempt to park in San Francisco.

              The middle class and overclass do not use public transport – even though it is often difficult for the middle class to avoid, they generally avoid it. But they cannot avoid sharing the streets and the shops with the underclass.

              San Francisco hit herd immunity a lot earlier than most places, probably because of the massive failure of public hygiene. Why they did not have a mass die off is as secret as how the keep their blacks in order, to the extent that they do keep them in order, which suggests that it is yet another unprincipled exception.

              • Mister Grumpus says:

                Hydroxychloroquine at the medical speakeasy, cash under the table. It’s the new taboo. Maybe ecstasy dealers sideline it now. “Yeah I can get that for you.”

              • Icon says:

                I was forced to travel through SF on route to Hickam in the early ‘80s.

                The place was infested with queers back then. They probably enjoy wallowing in filth.

                I wonder too why the negros aren’t rioting. They are probably being kept sedated by increased welfare.

              • I think there’s a possibility that there’s a non-political reason for this. I have a hunch that the virus’ mechanism of actually killing you is different than most think. If the virus attacks the immune system in the lungs, kills your alveolar macrophages specifically, your lungs then become unable to filter out atmospheric pollutants, which start building up in your alveoli over a period of about two weeks, until this slowly declining blood oxygen goes critical, triggering either the failure of another organ or the failure to breathe.

                That’s why we see vastly different death rates in different places. It has much to do with quality of air. Less industrialized countries laughed the virus off; everything left outside in NYC eventually becomes covered in a fine layer of grime. LA is infamous for terrible air, and so is China.

                A map of poor quality air aligns perfectly in NY with a heat map of virus deaths. Outside the boundary of poor quality air, hardly any deaths

                • The Cominator says:

                  Interesting theory but not sure the air quality is that good in South Korea or that bad in Spain…

                  I still think the real difference maker is whether your government deliberately wants to kill more people to make the crisis worse or doesn’t.

                • jim says:

                  The large variation in the death rate was variation in the death rate of that segment of the population most at the mercy of care bureaucracy. Cuomo’s anti quarantine targeted old people’s homes. It depends on whether you mistreat sick people. If you want a lot of deaths to declare a crisis, there are no end of ways to obtain a death rate short of actually shooting people.

                • jim says:

                  South Korea does not have particularly good air, and Sydney’s air is pretty bad.

            • Not Tom says:

              I looked up ridership on BART, found this:

              https://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2020/news20200225

              Down by over 90% since around the time the outbreaks started, and even the baseline numbers are not even in the same ballpark as NYC subway. I didn’t look up Caltrain but I’d wager it’s a similar story.

              Ironically, SF bayarea’s underwhelming public transport may have saved a lot of lives by being so bad.

              I don’t think it’s just one factor though. Consider:
              – SC public transport is less crowded and geographically sparser than NYC subway.
              – Surface vehicles are exposed to outdoor non-recycled air. Viral load may be a factor.
              – SC has seen high compliance with stay-at-home orders. Many businesses shut down early or made telecommuting arrangements, even before the official orders. Compare to e.g. the Hasidic Jews in NY.
              – SC never exceeded its hospital/ICU bed capacity. While NYC has clearly not been in a constant state of overflow, there were occasional spikes that overwhelmed the system, like in Italy.
              – Different “minority” populations. SC very heavy on Mestizo and Indian, who just don’t really seem to be affected by this thing. Also East Asians who all had masks and wore them, long before the WHO/CDC finally stopped lying about masks.
              – SC hospitals and practices are “unofficially unregulated” – the unprincipled exceptions Jim talks about. Officially they don’t prescribe HCQ for Corona. Unofficially many have been giving out the holy trinity (HCQ, AZT, Zinc) when anyone reports even mild symptoms.

              The under-utilization of SC’s hospitals is also an interesting one. NYC actually has more beds per capita. So either SC was much more successful at flattening the curve, or had much fewer cases requiring hospitalization. Maybe both – probably both.

              I realize it’s already become part of the conventional wisdom here to cite the one SC study estimating 50-100x the recorded case count. I’ll just reiterate again that the study was poorly designed. It included significant selection bias and used a test which may have a very high false positive rate, thus massively overestimating the spread. Some of you won’t believe that it could be inaccurate, because its hypothesized result fits your mental model of the situation. I won’t bother to argue, as eventually – within a few weeks, probably – we’ll know for sure which tests are good and which ones are garbage, and several of these shaky studies will be thrown out and replaced with more accurate ones. At which point you can either take them at face value or claim it’s a whitewash, I really don’t care at this point.

              Bottom line, SC is nowhere close to herd immunity (SF may be a different story), but it’s not going to matter much, because once they determine which tests are accurate, the case load will be low enough for contact tracing and people will start going back to work anyway – probably with masks, at least for a while.

  23. Pooch says:

    Looking long term, there still seems to be quite a range of scenarios of how this plays out to me.

    Best case: Red governed states open first. Blue governed begrudgingly open later. Economy starts to come back in Q3. Trump wins reelection.

    Worst case: Red governed states open first. Blue governed states stay closed until the election. Force mail-in voting through. Battleground states blatantly defraud Trump in the election with ballet harvesting and fake mail-in ballets. Trump loses. Civil war commences.

  24. The Cominator says:

    What bothers me is why so many people who should have known better (including I think Trump himself) fell for it. It never fooled me… but it fooled so many people on our side and I just don’t understand why.

    The South Korean data (obviously far far better than the extreme outlier of the Italian data the cherry picked favorite example of the panicmongers, something was obviously fishy in Italy) made it clear to me from early on that this was going to be nothing like the great influenza of 1918.

    • Pooch says:

      There was a brief period where it was legitimately possible this could be bad, especially based on how the Chinese were acting and how it spread to Italy. We usually don’t see the Chinese lockdown like that.

      • The Cominator says:

        Yes but then we saw that it was no big deal in heavily urbanized South Korea.

        I concluded that maybe the Chinese really wanted Trump out (Trump gives them a free hand internally sure but he was already wrecking their position in the trade supply chain) but figured the Democrats were too retarded on their own so they would create a self inflicted wound and cause a panic. Maybe it backfired but that might have been what the Chinese are thinking…

        This is why I share with the more bluepilled elements of the right a desire to now turn China into a hermit kingdom and cut them out of world trade… cold war is now inevitable anyway.

        • BC says:

          Yes but then we saw that it was no big deal in heavily urbanized South Korea.

          Not a big deal with proper tracking, mask use, and good public. Something the US completely failed to do for almost 3 months into this mess. US cities are a dirty filthy mess.

        • Pooch says:

          I don’t buy it. The democrats want war with China. Trump wants peace, albeit with better terms in trade. Xi knows that.

          China notified WHO as soon as they discovered the it. I don’t even really understand this whole China had secret knowledge and hid the virus narrative the cuckservatives are pushing. What did they hide? They announced they were shutting down Wuhan and published their research on the virus.

          • The Cominator says:

            But they let people fly out to other countries but not travel elsewhere within China… that is the damning thing.

            • ten says:

              Is it, really? Isn’t it other countries’ jobs to set up sane quarantine measures?

              • The Cominator says:

                Well the problem is every country then has to do it and the Chinese weren’t reporting the problem until later. So even Trump’s early ban might have been too late.

                It doesn’t matter Trump politically MUST blame the Chinese the fact that he messed up and cucked to Fauci gives him no choice. We have no choice but to go along with him lest we want the left to win either. Otherwise he has to admit he cucked to these shutdowns stupidly (which he did) and that would be the end of him.

                • The Cominator says:

                  As i predicted

                  https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/30/donald-trump-blames-china-us-economy-woes-vows-ver/

                  Also he is saying he thinks virus was man made in Wuhan lab. Cold war with China now.

                • Pooch says:

                  He’s not saying that. The cucks are really trying to force feed the China-lab virus meme. All he said in the press conference is hes looking at all evidence at how it started and nothing is conclusive yet.

                  The bigger problem I have with Trump right now is he is defending the lockdown to the point of attacking Sweden on twitter. And because of that he was note able to give full-throated support to the protestors in Michigan. He’s telling the governor to give a little and get a little instead of calling her out for the cunt that she is.

                  He’s admitted that Q3 will be flat. Q4 will be growing back to where we were and it wont be until 2021 until we can actually start growing. Not what I want to hear from a pointless lockdown.

                • The Cominator says:

                  Well to the extent he hasn’t gone full bore on saying it he is going to “look into it” and then say the virus was engineered in the lab.

                  Trump has no choice politically but to endorse Cold War 2.0 against China now. He cucked to Fauci, hes not going to be running against senile Biden but Michelle Obama/Buttigieg and going all in on blaming China is his only chance of survival. He has to scapegoat China for the damage the lockdown caused no choice… we have no choice but to back him on this either so we all better start convincing ourselves that this was a sinister Chinese plot and that Fauci and the Cathedral are Chinese agents… Bannon is already pushing this line.

                • The Cominator says:

                  Trump cannot admit the Japanese/Swedish approach is right because he would have to admit his own horrible mistake here…

                  It is a mistake I find absolutely baffling myself. I can only conclude his mind is starting to go…

                • jim says:

                  Trump wants to split the priesthood, which is mighty fractious already without any outsiders fracturing it, and cannot take on the medical priesthood when he is about to take on the FBI and DoJ.

                  Hence he regularly gives credit to the murderous criminals in the FDA and CDC, even though the only useful thing they did was to eventually and reluctantly get out of the way of the public/private partnership and the military through which he takes actual action to control the pandemic.

                • Pooch says:

                  Well to Trump’s credit every country in the world (including China) locked down except apparently Sweden and South Korea. I doubt all the protestors marching on the state capitals across the country give a rats ass about China. Their concern is the Constitution is being shredded to bits and Trump is only throwing mild support behind them.

                  But if Trump needs to play politics and scapegoat China to win re-election whatever. Cold War is fine I guess. It’s hot nuclear war Is BAD.

                  Bannon has wanted war with China since day 1 and he supported a harsh lockdown from the beginning so I couldn’t care less what he thinks.

                • The Cominator says:

                  Not Japan either, Japan did the only lockdown measure I actually support closing the schools. I don’t support closing them because of Corona I just support closing them.

                • Pooch says:

                  I suppose Trump is anticipating the Democrats to say Trump is 100% responsible for all virus deaths and constantly state that death total leading up to the election. Trump can then respond I saved 2 million lives by locking down (even if not factually true).

                • The Cominator says:

                  “Trump wants to split the priesthood, which is mighty fractious already without any outsiders fracturing it, and cannot take on the medical priesthood when he is about to take on the FBI and DoJ.”

                  I think he just fucked up Jim… he didn’t have to fight the medical priesthood he just had to prevent them from being front in center with the media in the 1st place… the front and center media doctor should have been Dr. Carson (yeah I know hes a 1352 but Carson is a genuinely good guy and a genuinely smart doctor who knew this was overblown bullshit from the beginning). He should have then tweeted that anyone who disagrees with Carson is a racist.

                • jim says:

                  Trump did a bigger and more important thing. He bypassed the FDA and CDC in his response to the pandemic, using the military and his (distinctly fascist) public/private partnership to perform their former duties.

                  And the press keep asking gotcha questions about them being ignored, kept in the dark, and fed shit, which of course they strenuously deny, because they cannot admit to losing status. That is why Trump sticks them in front of the media and praises them to the skies.

                  Trump has to defeat the FBI, the Fisa court, and the DoJ, before he can take on Harvard. After he defeats Harvard, then it will be time to take on the FDA, the CDC, and Global Warmism. Similarly NASA. The Space Force is a primarily a lifeline to Musk to prevent Nasa from denying him access to space. Smashing Nasa is way down on Trump’s list of priorities, probably after Global Warming.

                  Long ago, Bill Gates made a deal with a spreadsheet company, Visicalc or Lotus, I forget which, which seemed highly favorable, seemed like he was conceding them the spreadsheet business, but the deal contained a poison pill, in that they promised to do stuff that they thought they could do, but he knew they could not do. Similarly Trump’s program for Nasa returning to the moon. It is a poison pill, preparation for destroying them, as Bill Gates destroyed those that had previously owned the spreadsheet business. The Nasa Artemis project is Trump leading Nasa to succumb to Nasa’s own delusions and corruption.

                • Pooch says:

                  If Trump would have ignored Fauci from the beginning, the Cathedral would be saying Trump killed 60 thousand (or whatever the death toll is at the time) from now until the election by not listening to the medical experts.

                  Now, By letting Fauci throw up his crazy models in the briefing, when the Cathedral says Trump killed 60 thousand he can respond with “I saved 2 million lives”.

                  This happening in an election year is what really fucked him and limited his options.

                • The Cominator says:

                  “If Trump would have ignored Fauci from the beginning, the Cathedral would be saying Trump killed 60 thousand (or whatever the death toll is at the time) from now until the election by not listening to the medical experts.”

                  Wouldn’t have mattered, Trump would have argued he saved the economy and people care more about their money than a few dead elderly NAMs.

                  Now his bond with his base is broken because he broke his promise to them not to let the government wreck the economy ever again. Against Biden he’d still win but since its going to be Moochelle Obama he is actually running against I have my doubts.

                • Pooch says:

                  No way in hell he loses in a legitimate election to anyone including Monkeyshelle. The protestors carry Trump signs as they march to the capitals of the Democrat governors. His measured support for them is much better than the Democrat alternative of just more lockdown.

                  However, stealing the election has now become a distinct possibility for Democrats through ballet harvesting and mail-in voter fraud in the battleground states. It may be Trump’s greatest threat to reelection now.

                  https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/stealing_the_election_in_plain_sight.html

                • Mister Grumpus says:

                  @Jim:
                  “Long ago, Bill Gates made a deal with a spreadsheet company, Visicalc or Lotus, I forget which, which seemed highly favorable, seemed like he was conceding them the spreadsheet business, but the deal contained a poison pill, in that they promised to do stuff that they thought they could do, but he knew they could not do.“

                  I think it was in one of Trump’s books that he would sometimes sneak into building sites, chat with the welders, plumbers and electricians, and get the lowdown in how things were REALLY going.

                  This was intel that could never get passed up the chain through yes men to the guys “in charge”, against whom he’s be negotiating soon after. This of course let him bluff and entrap his counter parties into making promises that they didn’t know they couldn’t actually keep, and then clean them out in court later.

                • The Cominator says:

                  I cannot for the life of me see how Trump apparently falling for a fake and gay meme pandemic and destroying his economy in an election year is any kind of 4D chess…

                  Its more like when Napoleon decided to invade Russia… a catastrophic blunder by a previously genius man who before that made virtually no mistakes…

                • Pooch says:

                  No one knew the severity of the pandemic initially, including Jim. Locking down initially was reasonable until we got more information, especially based on how China was reacting.

                • The Cominator says:

                  “No one knew the severity of the pandemic initially, including Jim. Locking down initially was reasonable until we got more information, especially based on how China was reacting.”

                  No justification after South Korea. If you thought there was you weren’t thinking clearly…

                • The Cominator says:

                  But okay lets say that mistake was somewhat understandable and everyone makes mistakes…

                  Where the REALLY CATASTROPHIC mistake was when Trump backed off reopen by Easter. He could have easily survived a lockdown until Easter, it was extending it until now that has at least a 50% chance of being the end of him.

                • Pooch says:

                  He’s guaranteed reelection in a fair election. The Democrats are taking the blame for it. The protestors wave Trump flags outside state capitals everyday. Check the pictures and video.

                  The biggest risk to losing, which is a very real chance now, is outright mail voter/ballet harvesting fraud in most of the battle ground states.

                  But even if he prevents that fraud and wins, the economy is still crashed and he’ll be surrounded by people who want war with China because of it. Still Not exactly an ideal situation.

                • Mike says:

                  Don’t see what is wrong with antagonism towards China as long as it is Trumpian National Capitalism antagonism, and not necon cathedral antagonism.

                • jim says:

                  Conflicts deriving from Trumpian national capitalism lead at worst to trade wars. We just had a trade war with China, and it was settled in our favor and without too many hurt feelings and too much economic disruption. If Biden carried out his promise to use American airsea power to “protect” Chinese nationals in China from the Chinese government, nuclear holy war.

                  Holy wars are not only unprofitable, but also tend to be extraordinarily bloody.

              • BC says:

                Now his bond with his base is broken because he broke his promise to them not to let the government wreck the economy ever again. Against Biden he’d still win but since its going to be Moochelle Obama he is actually running against I have my doubts.

                I see no signs Trump’s broken with his base.

                And your idea Moocheele Obama is going to run is as inane as your namesake’s idea that Comey is on Trump’s side as a double agent. I swear booby, your political predictions are just off the charts cuckoo.

  25. mobiuswolf says:

    Wu Flu is of topic for this blog. But the corruption of science is on topic. Hostile and treasonous elite conduct is on topic. And we are seeing no end of both in the Wu Flu crisis. The big question is: Is Wu Flu just yet another new flu, worse than most, less bad than…

    via Wu Flu, manufactured crisis, real deaths. — Jim’s Blog

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    • Paxalot says:

      Just like 9/11 was a pretext for neocons to spend trillions of dollars on warmongering the China flu was a pretext for Globalists to wage war on the general population. Globalists all admire China because they want what China has – complete authority over the population. China genocided Tibet. Globalists want to genocide white Europeans. I’m not saying they had anything to do with the pandemic only that they saw it as an opportunity to test run their dystopia where the state monopoly on violence could run amok censoring and controlling the public. However globalists have overplayed their hand. Countries have already started to move manufacturing home or to democracies like India. The media has been exposed as evil and globalist organizations like the WHO as ridiculously incompetent.

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