Testosterone and weight loss

Exogenous testosterone can cause your testicles to shut down – and possibly shut down permanently. Hence the need to get off testosterone from time to time.

I learned that my sperm production was down – not so low as to render me entirely infertile, but low enough to significantly impact my prospects of having another child.  So, I stopped taking exogenous testosterone on May 14th. By May 27th, had gained ten pounds and my abs were no longer visible. So, on May 27th, adopted the carno ketogenic diet.  Extreme low carb, with an eight hour eating window each day, and longer fasts from time to time. One and half grams of protein per day per kilogram of ideal weight.

I have now lost the weight that I gained, and it feels like my testosterone levels are recovering.  But it was a struggle to lose that weight without exogenous testosterone to strengthen me.  I miss carbs terribly, and now that I can see my abs again, am going to slowly go back to eating a little bit of carbs.   I will retest my testicles in August or September.

I have done weight loss with and without exogenous testosterone.  Weight loss is never easy for me, even with exogenous testosterone, but without exogenous testosterone it is mighty hard.

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53 Responses to “Testosterone and weight loss”

  1. […] Testosterone and weight loss […]

  2. Chad says:

    What is the carno ketogrnic diet?

  3. Simon says:

    Your doc should have told you about HCG (or it’s easy enough to find yourself).

    If on a 2 shots per week regimen of Testosterone, you take 250IU of HCG the day before each shot, or if once weekly, 500IU the day before.

    HCG tricks the body into thinking the testes are still required, thus they do not atrophy. It also helps to preserve fertility.

    • EH says:

      An aromatase inhibitor might be a better choice if the fat gain is due to high estradiol levels, AIs are cheap and also generally raise endogenous T, generally a good thing to take along with T to prevent the testes from shutting down, or so I’ve read.
      See http://roguehealthandfitness.com/aromatase-inhibitors/ and the comments – P.D. Mangan is the best source I have found for health research, lots of info at that site. Excess AIs can also cause too low estrogen, which can lower libido, testing recommended.

      • Suburb Survivor says:

        Agree with Simon regarding HCG, which is directed to a prior problem (the shutdown of the testes, ending spermatogenesis), which provided the incentive to get of testosterone, and not towards helping fat loss per se. HCG makes possible year-round administration of testosterone without experiencing testicular atrophy, mimicking (more accurately, being a biological analog of) leutenizing hormone that prompts sperm production, maintaining fertility.

        t. baby due in December, conceived at 41 by man on year-round Test-C and HCG (and, yes, an AI as well)

  4. Alrenous says:

    You were on carbs too long. Like trying to quit smoking after 40 years of it – it’s kind of too late at that point. Like a tree that’s grown around a metal pole, if you remove the pole there’s just a hole there until you put it back.

    When I went zero carb, almost immediately carbs largely stopped looking or tasting like food. It’s a shame I’m too lazy to maintain zero carb.

    You could try maintaining zero carb for multiple years, again analogous to how long it takes a smoker’s lungs to become free of tar.

  5. Anon786 says:

    Throw in 20 day water fast. Your hormone production (insulin, cortisol and leptin) reset to level where rapid weight gain back to where you started is very difficult. That’s the only way for permanent weight loss. Ancients knew it.

    • Yara says:

      7 minutes without oxygen, 7 days without water, 7 weeks without food.

      Your suggestion is a good way to unironically KYS.

      • EH says:

        Anon786 is dangerously wrong – but:

        A water fast means only drinking water, not going without water. 20 days without food is unlikely to kill you, especially with sodium/potassium/magnesium/multivitamin supplemented to at least RDA levels. Going without carbs alone will likely do more good with much less risk of harm, particularly muscle wasting, long fasts are not likely to be beneficial. A pure water fast without electrolytes might well kill you, though.

        • Cloudswrest says:

          World record therapeutic fast is 382 days. That’s well over a year. Starting weight 456 lbs. Ending weight 180 lbs.

          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/

          • jim says:

            Obviously if you are very fat, can fast a whole lot longer that three weeks or three months. That is what fat is for in the environment of evolutionary adaptation. But for a person in reasonable shape, at the end of three weeks without food, will be alive but weak, will no longer be in good shape.

            Conversely however, if lots of fat in the environment of evolutionary adaptation is intended for famine, then if you have lots of fat, should give yourself a famine.

            • Cloudswrest says:

              If you’re in reasonable shape then what the heck would you be fasting for three weeks for?

              • jim says:

                In the ancestral environment, you just took that long to kill a mammoth.

                You spent two weeks digging a mammoth trap and putting sharpened stakes in it, and a week to spook a mammoth into running into the pit. Then the dead mammoth froze, and you spent a month pigging out on it.

          • But he was under medical supervision and got micronutrients. Otherwise he would be dead in a few weeks, maybe days. It is things like the heart needs potassium. Even a few days without it can be lethal.

            So water fasts over 3 days are strictly with medical supervision only, probably with some kind of a multivitamin.

            • jim says:

              If we were designed so that we could not fast for weeks without medical supervision, we would not have been designed to be capable of getting fat.

              • Mike in Boston says:

                Certainly true, but it is a good idea to be careful once one’s age begins to push the design envelope. I have had over-70 relatives hospitalized with potassium deficiency even when not fasting.

                • jim says:

                  Potassium deficiency, magnesium deficiency, and vitamin D deficiency, are extremely common, because we now eat far less fresh fruit and leafy greens than in the ancestral environment, and we are indoors more and wear more clothes than in the ancestral environment. In the ancestral environment, if someone had no substantial food for three weeks because he was digging a mammoth trap, would probably be eating a whole lot of fresh green vegetable shoots, dandelion shoots, and the like, and the occasional piece of fruit, so would have plenty of potassium, and would be out in the sunlight, so plenty of vitamin D.

                  Therefore, during a prolonged fast, drink plenty of salty water salted with a mixture of potassium salt and regular salt, and plenty of vitamin D. But apart from that, the irregularity of food in the ancestral environment would predict that fasts are unlikely to be harmful.

                  Deficiencies of the divalent metal salts magnesium, manganese, zinc, and copper are also extremely common, but these are long term problems, not short term problems because we store a lot in our bones.

                  An unbalanced intake of any one divalent metal salt is likely to produce a deficiency of other divalent metals, so you should in the long term have a balanced intake of divalent metals, but this is not a fasting issue, while potassium is a fasting issue.

      • Frederick Algernon says:

        *ahem* the SAS survival handbook says it is 3/3/3.

        • jim says:

          The SAS survival handbook is for fit people – people who are not very fat. Obviously the fatter you are, the longer you can go without food.

        • Yara says:

          Then the handbook significantly understates human resilience. You might not be effective in the field beyond triple-3, but you’ll survive for quite a bit longer.

          • jim says:

            You will survive for considerably longer than three weeks without food, but unless fat to start with, you will not be much use after three weeks without food.

        • Haven’t read that one, but in survival exposure is key, 3 minutes without oxygen, 3 hours in extreme cold, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food. This is why my survival trainer emphasized fire-building as the central skill, fire with some hasty shelter and water boiling is a good start.

          Also, the 3 weeks without food part is not about literally dying after 3 weeks but being too weak to hunt or walk towards safety.

  6. Gee Jones says:

    Black Men tend to have high testosterone and tend to be masculine and virile will into their seventies.

    Look at how ripped and muscular they are.

    This is why they dominate sports, are better at fighting, disproportionately serve in the military, and are well endowed.

    I wonder if this is why white women are increasingly bearing Children of Color?

    • Suburb Survivor says:

      Ugh, this meme again? Take it back to /pol, you JIDF shill.

    • Frederick Algernon says:

      Comments like this always seem to come from pudgy, poorly endowed men whose only experience with Africanized Males is via blacked porn videos.

    • WynnLloyd says:

      This made me chuckle.
      Niggras have the lowest life expectancy of any group.
      They also age the worst.
      Go to the nearest ghetto and look at men over 45. Most of them are shells of their former selves. They look completely beaten. Because Homo Congoidensis is meant to die in competition or from disease, not from old age. It’s whites being retarded that enables the latter.
      As for the military, blacks are vastly underrepresented in the combat arms branches (the ones that actually fight). This is because blacks are most cowards. They can’t shoot, either. Been there seen it with my own eyes.

      Niggras have 20 or so good years, from 15-35. That’s IF they can remain in society. Most are too stupid to avoid prison, which is now a pound for blacks. Pound blacks are often not socialized well-enough to get adopted by the most retarded of white liberals. Unfortunately it is not (yet) legal to euthanize them.

      There are thousands of videos of white women (and other races) having sex with pigs, dogs, donkeys, etc. Apparently there’s one even with an elephant.

      Am I jealous of the donkey? No. And that donkey probably got a slender white woman. Some Homo Congoidensis screwing a fat ass blob of white butter is not something I envy.
      What you should be concerned with, is “swirling.” At this point, the new development is the top 25% of black women going for other race men, and turning against black males and blackistan in general. This is because black males control nothing, build nothing, and have never achieved anything. They couldn’t even prevent their women and children from being enslaved. Hell, THEY were the ones who enslaved them!
      Blacks are an invasive species, a pest that serves no purpose, and would die out if not for retarded white liberals.

      Don’t get me wrong, I love watching dindus and their antics. Many do. They are always entertaining in a primitive, slapstick kind of way. This comment being a perfect example.

  7. Roberto says:

    Jim, if I may, let me request a post:

    How intensified Feminism is responsible for the plummeting sperm counts in the West.

    Some academic-faggots waste their time researching “muh phytoestrogens,” and I am sick and tired of that bullshit. The real problem is that men are mentally emasculated, which — more than everything else combined — results in abysmal sperm production.

    Would really appreciate a post about the matter.

    • jim says:

      That men are psychologically emasculated is obvious.

      That psychological emasculation lowers testosterone and sperm counts is obvious. There is anecdotal evidence that progs males have lower testosterone.

      That it is the cause of the catastrophic decline in male fertility and testosterone is plausible but unproven. I don’t have any more evidence than that which I have just stated.

      I would love to do a post on this topic, but I need more data. Obviously proper scientific studies are unlikely, since the implications are profoundly politically incorrect, so we are going to have to go with anecdotal data. But it was anecdotal data that demonstrated the germ theory of cholera. Anecdotal data is worth something – and first hand anecdotal data is worth quite a lot.

      The ideal would be someone who is not taking supplemental testosterone, is regularly checking his testosterone and sperm counts, perhaps trying to raise testosterone by non prescription supplements and physical exercise – learns game and practices it in its most violently politically incorrect form (asshole charisma) and reports on changes in his testosterone. I am not that man, since I always knew game before it was a word and before it had been the subject of systematic study, also my testosterone level tests have been infrequent and erratic.

  8. Reziac says:

    The usual cause of declining testosterone is declining thyroid function, which is also the usual cause of persistent weight gain or difficult weight loss (and a plethora of other possible symptoms, from tooth decay to cancer). Hence a full thyroid workup (NOT just the TSH test, which by itself is worthless) should be the first line of inquiry. Unfortunately most doctors regard it as a last resort.

    • Yara says:

      Hypothyroidism is definitely one of those things that you really don’t want to have.

  9. Rule Britannia says:

    https://i.imgur.com/HfNhASx.png

    TONY ABBOT WHEN?

  10. Anon says:

    What would you guys reccomend for commonly available non-prescription supplements to increase T ?

    Currently lifting, eating as much red meat as possible and taking Zinc.

    There’s a lot of information out there and it’s hard to have any idea what Ian legit.

    • jim says:

      Zinc by itself is dangerous – and indeed any divalent metal salt by itself is dangerous, because taking more of one will result in a deficiency of every other.

      I take a mixture of Epsom salt, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, and manganese sufate.

      If you have enough zinc, the solution should taste strongly and immediately of zinc. Don’t take more than that.

    • jim says:

      Divalent metal RDAs
      Magnesium RDA 0.42 gm Atomic weight 24.3
      Epsom salts Molecular weight 246.47
      Hence Epsom salts RDA 4.2 gm
      Zinc RDA 11mg
      But 15mg will cause harmful effects. And my multivitamins already
      Say we want 7mg elemental in 4.2gm of epsom salts.
      That is one part in 200 in epsom salts.
      give me that much. 200mg in one dose will make you sick.
      Zinc sufficiency test. Make a solution of 5gm/liter, 5.7 mg/ml, of zinc sulfate. Swish around mouth for ten seconds and swallow. Strong unpleasant aftertaste, you have enough zinc. Little or no aftertaste, zinc deficiency.
      Another source says 1gm per liter of zinc sulphate heptahydrate
      1. Very deficient: no specific taste sensation: tastes like plain water. This indicates a major deficiency of zinc requiring supplementation of >150 mg of zinc per day.
      2. Quite deficient: no immediate taste is noticed but, within the ten seconds of the test, a ‘dry’ or ‘metallic’ taste is experienced. This indicates a moderate deficiency requiring a supplement of 100 mg of zinc per day.
      3. Slightly deficient: an immediate slight taste is noted, which increases with time over the ten second period. This indicates a deficiency of minor degree requiring supplementation of 50 mg per day.
      4. Adequate: an immediate, strong and unpleasant taste is experienced. This indicates that no zinc deficiency exists. If this is the response to the first test done then obviously the diet already contains sufficient zinc and no supplement need be taken. A dose of 15-25 mg / day is usually sufficient to maintain adequate zinc status in people with only metabolic needs. Under stress or with toxin exposure, need for zinc can be 100 mg / day or more.
      Zinc atomic weight 65.38
      Zinc Citrate molecular weight 574.3 (with three zinc atoms), hence 34% zinc
      Zinc Sulphate heptahydrate molecular weight 287.53, hence 23% zinc.
      So, RDA of zinc sufficiency test solution is 43 ml, containing 43 mg of zinc sulphate heptahydrate, or 33mg of Zinc Citrate. Test solution should be about 1mg per mil of Zinc Citrate.
      Manganese RDA 9mg of maganese will have toxic effects.
      Wild ass guess is that your manganese/zinc ratio should be one part manganese by mass to three parts zinc by mass

  11. Randy says:

    I love keto but my problem with it is GERD.

    • jim says:

      Not a problem for me. Maybe the difference is that I supplement with a lot of salt (roughly equal mix of potassium chloride and sodium chloride), and a complete set of divalent metal salts. (Magnesium, Zinc, Copper, and Manganese.)

      I salt the hell out of my meat, and have made up my own special extra salty fish sauce with added potassium. I also drink extra salty meat broth made from bones and meat juices.

      • Randy says:

        Potassium deficiency was a different issue that I came to grips with via “low salt”. Why do you relate GERD to electrolytes? For magnesium I recommend CALM. It is a great product just be careful because a bit of a laxative. Take at night.

        • jim says:

          Why muck around with proprietary formulations? I use Epsom salts.

          • Koanic says:

            What’s wrong with sea salt? I use frozen shrimp. I’ve read the mineral balance in seawater is pretty close to what you need in your blood. Stands to reason. Salt from the sea gets in the land rocks. And life came from the sea anyway.

            • jim says:

              The ratio of sodium to potassium found in leafy vegetables is more relevant than the ratio of sodium to potassium found in the sea.

          • Kirk says:

            I did not know Epsom salts were edible. Is there a brand you rely on and do you supplement potassium or does the brand you rely on have potassium added?

            • jim says:

              Epsom salts are very pure Magnesium Sulphate heptahydrate. They are cheap and suitable for human consumption.

              I add a very small amount of Zinc citrate, and an even smaller amount of copper sulphate and manganese sulphate, so that my intake of divalent metal salts remains balanced.

              six parts by weight Zinc Citrate, one part copper sulphate, one part manganese sulphate, in six hundred parts Epsom salts. I take a teaspoon of the mixture (about 4.2 grams, each day.

              Test your zinc levels by tasting some zinc solution. When you can immediately taste zinc, your zinc levels are fine. If you cannot taste it at first, or cannot taste it at all, your zinc levels are low, which apt to cause pimples and low testosterone, and a wide variety of vague minor but unpleasant ailments.

              Potassium is a monovalent metal, and I don’t try to balance monovalents with divalents.

              For a zinc sufficiency test, make a solution of 6 mg/ml, or 6gm/liter, of Zinc sulphate. You should be able to immediately taste the zinc. If you cannot taste the zinc, or cannot taste it until a few seconds have passed, you are zinc deficient and should increase your consumption of zinc, copper, and manganese. If you can immediately taste the zinc, and it tastes really bad, you have enough zinc, or perhaps excessive zinc. Excessive zinc is apt to cause deficiencies of copper and manganese.

              • Bob says:

                Wow. That is really helpful. Do you have any experience with fixing low Vitamin D?

                • Alrenous says:

                  I read that they gave 35,000 IU of D to patients at a diabetes clinic (unrelated reasons) and they all ended up immune to a flu while the nurses got sick. I also read that full-body sun exposure will cap out at 20,000 IU a day. I ballparked a merely sufficient dose at 10,000 IU and tried that, and likewise stopped getting colds. I also tried 8,000 and that’s not enough. I get less sick, but still get sick.

                  Recently a study] found that the original study made a statistical error, “It also estimated that 8895 IU of vitamin D per day may be needed to accomplish that 97.5% of individuals achieve serum 25(OH)D values of 50 nmol/L or more.” What a coincidence.

                  D3 dissolved in oil seems to be fine. I’ve had issues with solid forms of D3, it doesn’t seem to absorb properly. Around here the cheapest form is in oil regardless.

                • Bob says:

                  Alrenous, thank you. I’ve never gone to the extreme of 10k iu/day. And good to know about solid vs oiled D3.

                  Thanks.

                • Alrenous says:

                  Most welcome.

      • Cloudswrest says:

        It’s been my experience that fooling around with various salts, if you’re not very careful, is likely to give you a very bad, acute case of the skithers! And this can be very unfortunate if you are on, say, a hike to the top of Half Dome and are halfway up the cables, and have been drinking a misguided electrolyte solution. Just sayin ….

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