Warriors, Merchants, war, markets, and capitalism.

From the time of Xenophon to the Crimean war, every long distance campaign by westerners had a free market following the camp and the march. Every single man in the army fought, and the camp followers fed them, clothed them, and armed them.

Alexander, fighting a long distance campaign, had ten camp followers for every soldier, but every man in Alexander’s army fought in every major battle, including Alexander himself, and every man close to him.

Socialist war is an attack by priests on warriors. Insourcing logistics was part and parcel of valorizing camp followers such as the whore Florence Nightingale, and valorizing camp followers was part and parcel of demonizing the heroes of the Crimean war.

The army is funded by pillage and extortion, but the camp followers are protected from pillage and extortion. They have lower status than warriors, but some of them, what we would call contractors or small businesses, considerably more freedom. The army protects the free market that feeds, clothes, and arms it. When two such armies meet, as in the Crimean war, each attempts to impose socialism on the enemy market, while protecting the freedom of its own market, as in the Crimean was, which was largely a war of logistics, the key British military victories being to smash the market in the towns through which private merchants organized the flow of goods to supply the Russians.

The priestly classes insource logistics to lower warrior status. It is that simple. The Western way of war, from Xenophon to Lord Cardigan, is that the camp and the march has a market following it around. That is what made us strong. Abandoning it has made us weak.

Weapons in Xenophon’s army were private property. Finding themselves short of ranged warfare capability, Xenophon proposed:

we must get slingers as soon as possible and cavalry. I am told there are in the army some Rhodians, most of whom, they say, know how to sling. Suppose, then, we investigate and find out first of all who among them possess slings, and for these slings offer the owner the money value; and to another, who will plait some more, hand over the money price; and for a third, who will volunteer to be enrolled as a slinger, invent some other sort of privilege

In Carnage and Culture, Hanson tells us:

Capitalism in its most basic form was born in ancient Greece; that heritage helps to explain why the postclassical Europeans in their centuries of religious and political cannibalism nevertheless protected their autonomy from non-Westerners and were as wealthy as their more unified Islamic rivals. The word for profit, kerdos, is ubiquitous in the Greek language. … by the fifth century b.c. Greek economic activity—especially at imperial Athens—was decentralized, governed by supply and demand, and characterized by sophisticated notions of markets, profit, banking, and insurance, with government assurance of the sanctity of private property and rights of inheritance.

For those states, ancient and modern, that failed to adopt the tenets of capitalism and private enterprise, if they were to war long enough, they would eventually encounter Western armies that were supplied by an amoral and unfettered market. In such cases, the numbers, brilliant leadership, and battlefield courage of the Other could be nullified by smaller, even poorly led armies that were better fed, equipped, and armed by those who saw profit in war.

Xenophon’s “March upcountry” uses the word “market” thirty nine times. Market logistics is ever present in his military considerations and political negotiations. The word “market” appears about twice as often as words such as “sling”, “sword”, or “spear”, and somewhat more often than “wounded”.

Suppose there was a rational military reason for insourcing logistics. What then is the rational military reason for giving logistics workers the same job titles and uniforms as warriors?

The recent humiliating defeats of the British in Basra and Helman province happened because the entire British Army can only put a hundred boots on the ground to hurt people and break their toys. With non fighters getting stolen valor, your army quietly melts away, and you do not notice until war comes. If you have one man in the army who does not fight, by and by you have no men in the army who fight.

Socialist logistics is working horribly badly, and even if it was working great, it would still be the case that stealing the valor of real soldiers cripples your military capability.

It is very hard to get for troops anything through conventional channels, and in practice, just as Soviet Russia operated on the black market, fighting men often have to engage in “drug deals” by trading whatever surplus stuff they have with other units that have what they actually need. There tend to be months or years delays between applying for some urgently and vitally needed replacement part, and getting it, but a soldier can order pipe tobacco online, and have it in within two, three weeks at the latest.

Cut out the military supply chain bullshit and let Amazon handle it. The regimental commander should contract with whom he damn well pleases. Back in the days when logistics was largely taken care of by the regimental commander and the camp followers a large proportion of the camp followers, including nearly all the highly skilled camp followers, for example Cardigan’s French Chef and the dual function whores, came from Europe, following the army around.

Those behind the lines, loading and unloading planes at the base near Basra, managing the equipment, and all that, kissing the ass of numerous four star generals who never leave the base, and never actually shooting and getting shot at, should not get medals and honors and be counted as soldiers. They should be camp followers, whores, and comfort women.

Let me tell you the real story of the charge of light brigade:

Due to the usual screw ups and fog of war, Lord Cardigan received a very stupid order to attack some enemy guns He protested the order vehemently, but then obeyed it, leading his men from the front in his very conspicuous privately owned officer uniform. Since he had a superior horse, which he personally owned, he got far in front of his men. He arrived at the enemy, personally took one whack at the leading enemy officer, then signaled the retreat before most of his men had arrived, obeying his orders to the letter pro forma with the least possible danger to his men, and the greatest possible danger to himself.

Let high ranking officers take their French chef and their numerous mistresses along with them. But don’t issue medals to the French Chef. The priesthood (the mainstream media) complained that Lord Cardigan brought his French chef along while his men ate salt beef, but Lord Cardigan, unlike present day commanders, tended be in the front when the bullets were flying. So, would you prefer a regimental commander who eats the same food as you, or a regimental commander who gets exposed to the same bullets as you?

826 Responses to “Warriors, Merchants, war, markets, and capitalism.”

  1. […] via Warriors, Merchants, war, markets, and capitalism. — Jim’s Blog […]

  2. Anonymous Fake says:

    @jim

    So you already see how the cost of housing is largely based on racial tension, and this is further manipulated by the “redlining” practices of banks. If they’re found guilty they just pay off Jesse Jackson and keep doing it. It isn’t much of a step further to see that total population control, not just racial control, is also a consideration.

    Bankers personally benefit when they keep the blacks away. They also benefit when they damage the sexual value of the bottom 99% of men who work real jobs for a living. It’s not too hard to see where I’m coming from now.

    By the way, the “minority mortgage meltdown” was a deliberate limited hang out. The use of banking in real estate as population control was covered up by making it “just another race issue”, taking heat off the fundamental, essential immorality of the practice. A racially charged cover story, and then the Occupy Wall Street clown show, completely shut up any debate about the financial power imposed on what ought to be settled markets.

    I’ll give you that a lot of personal work and handymen contribute to residential real estate as well, but the skew between labor and capital inputs is still fake and rigged.

    • jim says:

      The banks are not redlining. They are doing the opposite of redlining, affirmative action mortgages, and if they were redlining, that would reduce, not increase, the cost of housing by making it harder for blacks to blockbust white areas.

      You are running the wrong script on us. Progressives are supposed to say hiss and say “Evil capitalists” when they hear the horrid word redlining, and the demand the banks give a billion dollars to race hustlers. We are disinclined to react in this fashion.

      You are just throwing trigger words around at random. Your argument makes absolutely no sense, it cannot be rebutted, not actually being an argument in the first place, just a string of trigger words and meaningless sentences that serve no purpose other than to transmit trigger words.

      I was right at ground zero of the Great Minority Mortgage Meltdown, and from 2005 November to 2007 every purchaser in every sale was a minority with no job, no income and no assets, frequently a no-hablo-english cat eating wetback undocumented alien pulled out of the gutter with a bottle of whiskey, given a pile of documents he could not read to make his mark on, and the keys to a house he had never visited and did not know the location of.

      Most of the white speculators, all of them that I noticed, and I was watching the housing market like a hawk, unloaded in 2005 November. It was a panic stricken run to the exits. We did not expect the farce to be continued for as long as it was. We all thought the proverbial would hit the fan within weeks or months at the outside, but it continued all the way to 2007, with, however, whites no longer participating.

      The government however prolonged the fraud by taking extraordinary and radical measures to fake the appearance of normality and conceal what had happened. Where I was, after 2005 November, the housing market was all nams with no assets pretending they were doing white people stuff. For whites, the housing market froze up, because whites were disinclined to buy at those prices, and to my knowledge, in that area, none of them did. Anyone white who wanted to buy a house was waiting for the house to be foreclosed. And they had to wait a lot longer than they expected.

      • Anonymous Fake says:

        Prince George’s County, Maryland, is a demonstration of affirmative action being used as bait to move blacks to a more convenient location, away from the DC elites. It’s redlining by another means, and the point is that it all falls under the scheme of population control. The choice of trigger words doesn’t matter except for personal taste. What matters is that jobs and credit are distributed according to an agenda other than the hypothetical “free market”, which is supposed to mean free from usury and rent seeking. Reality isn’t theory.

        Minorities, to their credit, are more likely to instinctively trust government housing than banker housing and being chained to a mortgage. This gets reflected in their fertility and demographic strength in politically powerful cities, not flyover subdivisions that give the government nothing but votes and taxes, without demanding civil service representation in proportion to their labor force participation. Minorities dragged into a dubious market are being set up to take the fall, and they took it perfectly. They made a population control issue into just another race issue. Some of them even knew it, but also knew to play dumb.

        But look at places like the “Asian Tigers” to see what happens when real estate becomes a fetish and there are no NAM’s available to pop the bubble. Demographic suicide that would make Western Europe cringe. They also make schooling a fetish because schools are linked to real estate value, and their few children are synthetic autist study robots, a tragic collapse of human capital. Harvard is all over this. Somehow, conservatives never notice.

        • jim says:

          The distribution of credit to minorities does not reflect the free market, but this is not a capitalist plot. It is, as in the Great Minority Mortgage Meltdown, a government plot.

          The government demanded that minorities be moved, en masse, into leafy green suburbs, regardless of credit worthiness, and if they were not it was “redlining”

          Obama’s AFFH gives the federal government “a lever to re-engineer nearly every American neighborhood — imposing a preferred racial and ethnic composition, densifying housing, transportation, and business development in suburb and city alike, and weakening or casting aside the authority of local governments over core responsibilities, from zoning to transportation to education.

          Trump is not yet in a position to roll that back, though he is nibbling at the edges of it. He has issued a new AFFH that cuts out government activism in enforcing the AFFH. Theoretically the AFFH is still in force, and theoretically just as intrusive as ever it was, though it is likely that compliance will drop radically, and in consequence, affirmative credit allocation will quietly diminish.

  3. Strannik says:

    Turk, you said (I’m not calling any man ”Allah”, sorry)

    ”As expected, you cannot refute the fact that the Orthodox are poor, corrupt, miserable third world thieves who have zero control over their women so you throw insults and religious word salad.”

    What insults? Is calling you ”Turk” insulting? Maybe if you’re not I guess…

    And ”religious word salad”? Seems to me that you should be better informed, but if your reply is any evidence, you are really not.

  4. Anonymous Fake says:

    [*unresponsive*]

    • jim says:

      Your economics is too incoherent and nonsensical to be rebutted.

      I would gladly discuss the excessive and artificially high cost of housing with someone who tries to make sense. It is plausible to blame evil capitalists for the high cost of housing, and I would be happy to have that argument with someone who has a coherent explanation of how evil capitalists do it.

      • Anonymous Fake says:

        Shouldn’t the labor theory of value have *some* relation with reality even if only because enough people believe in it such as to make a self fulfilling prophecy?

        I don’t mean weird labor or boondoggles used as straw men. I mean normal people jobs backed by objective statistics, like carpenters and painters and masons. They shouldn’t be too out of line with credit flows, right? Unless the banker is deliberately manipulating credit to serve his own personal interests. Sometimes inherent, and sometimes a result of whatever particular interest group happens to be traditionally assigned to be bankers, for some reason. Hello fellow feds lol.

        And are you saying the BLS isn’t meaningful economics? What’s wrong with my interpretation, that labor and credit should roughly correspond to each other and to reality, as a bundle of humanity and its behavior we call economics? Assuming bankers are autistic idealists, which they aren’t anymore because post 1960’s chemical contraception and MMORPG’s changed their social orientation.

        • jim says:

          The labor theory of value is nonsense because it sets the value of entrepeneurship and capital to zero. Supposedly when a capitalist builds something, it is just a tool for oppressing the workers. Hence Mao’s steel program in the great leap forward, where he deployed peasant labor to make iron and steel without foundries and without people in charge who knew how to make iron and steel.

          You cannot make a pencil except that the boss organizes the construction of specialty tools for making pencils and tells you how to make them.

          Lenin implicitly admitted that the labor theory of value was a lie to deceive the masses, contemptuously referring to “the economists” meaning Marxists who took Marxist economics seriously. But Mao and Pol Pot actually did take Marxist economics seriously, with predictable consequences.

          • Anonymous Fake says:

            [*deleted*]

            • jim says:

              Supposedly your data showed all sorts of improbable things.

              Need to present your data and give us a coherent explanation of how it shows these things, instead of telling us that it shows these things, rather than confident assertion that unspecified data shows these things in an unspecified way.

              When B tried this stunt, I challenged him to actually show me the data, which he did, and of course it did not show what was claimed.

              • Anonymous Fake says:

                My data, from a .gov source and thus authoritative enough for our purposes even if wrong, showed how few people are truly needed to build houses in America. The share of the work force needed is less than 1%, which is completely out of line with the 40% cost of housing pressed against a family wage.

                This is manipulation by bankers, and they are not reflective of the demographics of the common people. They tend to be of different religions, races, sexual orientation, etc. They aren’t randomly selected autistic mathematicians drafted by the government to be fair and objective Ayn Rand characters in real life.

                They could be, though. But that comes after we get our man on a white horse.

                • jim says:

                  Your data shows absolutely nothing of the kind, and I have built a house, so if it did show that, which it does not, would not believe it.

                  The cost of building a house is in any case rather small, despite the costs imposed by entirely unsafe health and safety regulations that require the use of methods that have long been obsolete. (If one complies, which I did not.) What is expensive is location, location, and location.

                  One big problem is that it is very expensive and difficult to get a permit to develop land for housing. If you fly into the Bay Area and look out the window, you will see vast expanses of unused land. If building was allowed on that land, the price of suburban housing in the bay area would drop to a tiny fraction of its current price.

                  Another big problem is getting a house where minorities will not attack your children – what is in short supply is not so much land, though that is in artificially short supply, but rather, what is in short supply is safe land and safe housing.

                  Blacks live in run down housing built by wealthy white people for wealthy white people, because they drove out the previous inhabitants. After a while the houses fall down, and are not replaced, and blacks attack another white housing area. That is what is making housing expensive in America.

  5. Strannik says:

    R7 Rocket, you said;

    ”The low testosterone passive aggressive responses are a gamma tell.”

    Good thing i’m not. I’ve got nothing to hide or to prove.

    ”The “secret king” gamma tell, is where a gamma male insists his status and importance is higher than it really is.”

    Is there ”status” or ”importance” attached to this? I remember a time before the Internet, and my life is well outside of it, and so I’m content. The reason why I’m here is curiousity, to see if there are people of similar mind to myself in political philosophy. I’ve no intention of changing this Blog to fit my views, and I’m open to other ideas if I’m convinced of them.

    But I have to be convinced.

    ”A lot of entryists on this blog exhibited gamma tells. They all failed or refused to answer RedPill on women questions.”

    That implies that there could be a fair number of political shit-stirrers and police shills involved here, having ”entryists”. Most forms of Elitist political philosophy don’t gather a mass movement around them, so the consolation is in (presumably) being right. I get that.

    ”I really miss Inquisitor Shaman. His ability to administer righteous RedPill on women tests was second to none.”

    ”Inquisitor”, hmm?

    • jim says:

      > That implies that there could be a fair number of political shit-stirrers and police shills involved here, having ”entryists”.

      Libertarian party died of ngo and Harvard entryists. Alt right is full of FBI entryists.

      Apart from FBI shills and Harvard shills, we have suddenly seen an outbreak of Bloomberg shills on the alt right. “Hail fellow white male racist. You should vote for a Jewish billionaire oligarch because he is going to implement socialism” No Bloomberg shills on this blog yet. They will probably go away if he gets thrashed on Super Tuesday.

      Bloomberg evidently thinks the alt right are total morons, but they are not dumb enough to buy from his shills.

      • Strannik says:

        From your lips to God’s ears. Bloomberg is not a real danger but still is a bit of a wild card. Probably trying to replicate what he thinks is the secret of Trump’s success at becoming President.

    • R7 Rocket says:

      @Strannik

      “ Is there ”status” or ”importance” attached to this? I remember a time before the Internet, and my life is well outside of it, and so I’m content. The reason why I’m here is curiousity, to see if there are people of similar mind to myself in political philosophy. I’ve no intention of changing this Blog to fit my views, and I’m open to other ideas if I’m convinced of them.”

      Are you really curious? The gamma male will often feign false curiosity.

      “But I have to be convinced.”

      Why do you think it mandatory that we convince you? That’s yet another “secret king” statement. It’s in fact, a textbook example of a gamma tell. You think your status is higher than it really is. You’re not Cæsar Augustus Trump, Prophet Elon Musk, Czar Putin, nor are you Emperor Xi Son of Heaven.

      While you’re not a fed shill (with reluctance, you finally answered a multiple choice RedPill on women question… correctly), you’re a gamma male. And gamma males are often treacherous. It’s not a coincidence that many of the COINTEL entryists on here show gamma tendencies. To be an entryist, one must act in bad faith, and gamma males are perfect for this role.

      • Strannik says:

        You asked me;

        ”Are you really curious? The gamma male will often feign false curiosity.”

        If I’m not curious I wouldn’t waste my time being here, now would I? Inferring that I’m a ”gamma male” isn’t exactly a warm invitation to satisfy one’s curiousity, now is it?

        ”Why do you think it mandatory that we convince you?”

        Nobody has to convince me of anything, except that since this is a publicly viewed Blog, it stands to reason that somebody wants to convince somebody of something here, after all.

        And what’s with the ”we”? I think this is one man’s Blog and if i’m welcome here that’s great, but if I’m treated with hostility and suspicion, I can always find better things to do than be maligned.

        ”That’s yet another “secret king” statement. It’s in fact, a textbook example of a gamma tell. You think your status is higher than it really is. You’re not Cæsar Augustus Trump, Prophet Elon Musk, Czar Putin, nor are you Emperor Xi Son of Heaven.”

        Lol, that’s news to me, that I think I’m in such rank as they. Now you’re just jerking yourself off I think, settle down.

        ”While you’re not a fed shill (with reluctance, you finally answered a multiple choice RedPill on women question… correctly)”

        No ”reluctance” just not going to be interrogated on a personal blog like a punk by some anonymous stranger. I answered what I decide to answer, regardless of the outcome. Get real.

        ”you’re a gamma male. And gamma males are often treacherous.”

        Now you’re just being funny. Is a ”gamma male” anything like the Hulk/Bruce Banner? Lol, for Heaven’s sake…

        ”It’s not a coincidence that many of the COINTEL entryists on here show gamma tendencies. To be an entryist, one must act in bad faith, and gamma males are perfect for this role.”

        Wow.

        • R7 Rocket says:

          @Strannik

          “ No ”reluctance” just not going to be interrogated on a personal blog like a punk by some anonymous stranger. I answered what I decide to answer, regardless of the outcome. Get real.”

          The Secret King asserts his authority!

          If you want a video of what a gamma male is, here is a clip of the gamma male named Eustace Scrubb from Voyage of the Dawntreader.

          https://youtu.be/wLsAaQfmeD4

          • Strannik says:

            ”The Secret King asserts his authority!”

            Lol, what? I’ve got my self-authority, does that count Chief?

            ”If you want a video of what a gamma male is, here is a clip of the gamma male named Eustace Scrubb from Voyage of the Dawntreader.”

            I’m confused. First you try to insult me (I think, maybe?) and then you offer entertainment?

            ”https://youtu.be/wLsAaQfmeD4”

            I’ll check it out, Narnia isn’t my thing but here it goes;

            Uh, okay… A kid thinks he’s dreaming when he’s really in Narnia on a ship with the other kids, who are quite familiar with Narnia…

            Sounds not very applicable to me but whatever.

            • R7 Rocket says:

              @Strannik
              “ If I’m not curious I wouldn’t waste my time being here, now would I? ”

              Gamma males are ankle biters, which many of your comments demonstrate.

              Eustace Stubbs is a textbook gamma male character. It’s his behavior and personality shown in the video.

              “ Inferring that I’m a ”gamma male” isn’t exactly a warm invitation to satisfy one’s curiousity, now is it?”

              Why is satisfying your curiosity important? The gamma male thinks his status is higher than it really is.

              http://voxday.blogspot.com/2020/02/dostoevsky-knew-gamma.html

              • Strannik says:

                You assume a great deal, perhaps projecting a bit I don’t know. What I do know is that I’m not a hater or seething with resentment in any way. Life is pretty good, I just want it to be better for others and am concerned about Liberalism at the helm in the Western world (not that there aren’t other problematic ideologies out there). What does concern me in relation to this Blog specifically is an atmosphere of suspicion and hostility to newcomers here. Perhaps it is somewhat warranted, maybe not. Funny thing is is that I don’t pick up on that from Jim himself necessarily. So my curiousity has been satisfied, and I don’t think i’m welcome here, or have the patience to endure much nonsense. Jim runs the risk of this comment section becoming an echo chamber of like minded people, and maybe that’s what he wants, it’s his damn Blog after all so that’s not a problem for me either. All of this I suppose is a long winded way of saying adios…

                • jim says:

                  We get a lot of entryists. It is apparent that you are not one, but suspicion is reasonable. We really do have reds under the bed.

                • R7 Rocket says:

                  Strannik passed the RedPill on women test. Every single entryist commentator on this blog failed the RedPill test.

                  Look at Anonymous Fake as the current example.

                  Previous examples that I remember were:
                  Setarcos
                  Carlylean Restorationist
                  VXXC
                  glosoli
                  Viking

                  There were more than this though.

          • The Cominator says:

            Stop talking about Gammas and Secret Kings. Vox’s Day gamma categorization is just autistic faggotry (and IM an autist and I recognize it) on his part. There is no such thing as a fucking gamma and even if there was Strannik who is an actual male patriarch wouldn’t be one.

            Strannik has some purple pilled beliefs but he is neither a ficticious gamma or a real Omega.

            • Strannik says:

              Thanks Cominator,

              By ”Adios”, I meant ”bye” to this particular guy who seems to want to have this malignant conversation with me, the rest of you seem alright.

              All this talk of gammas and omegas and various hues of pill is a bit alien to me, suffice it to say that i’m a recovering ”world Improver” as Spengler might have put it, and when I did so personally, turn away from political and other forms of wrong headed altruism, yes I did become something of a patriarch. The world is what it is, until the Second Coming it will not improve. Only individuals can, and not many of them either.

              • jim says:

                There are no gammas.

                Vox Day is purple pilled, and invented gammas to blame men for female misconduct.

                There is a real type that women perceive as high status, but men do not, hence all the medieval jokes about the bride running off with the wedding singer.

                Vox Day’s alpha is a demonization of that type, which demonization bears little resemblance to the real type.

                It is not a useful category.

                Vox Day has made immense and valuable contributions to the movement, but has a purple pill problem, visible in his kick ass heroines.

            • R7 Rocket says:

              @Cominator

              Looks like the posts on the gamma nerd archetype struck a nerve!

              • Ex says:

                Looks to me more like the gammashit was veering into kafkatrap territory.

                “Do as I say! No? Gamma tell!”

              • The Cominator says:

                I’m an autist nerd and I don’t pretend to be otherwise but there is no such thing as a gamma. This has been discussed here before.

  6. Strannik says:

    R7 Rocket asked me;

    ”Can you answer my multiple choice question that Anonymous Fake refused to answer?”

    No, I think I pretty well have that covered, although I will give you a brief overview of my beliefs now. As I said above;

    ”Eve was directly an agent of the Fall of Man, his ”de-evolution” if you will, and women being feeble in their rationality even more than men are still continue to unconsciously bring Mankind (themselves and their children included) ever more downward in sin, ignorance, and even physical degredation.”

    That is; 1. agents of the Fall of Man

    2. feeble in their rationality to a greater degree than men

    3. unconsciously-or not- strive to bring humanity down in sin, ignorance and physical degeneration.

    4. Therefore it’s obvious that they have to be kept in check by their families and husbands, trained to maintain a traditional household, etc..

    • jim says:

      > > ”Can you answer my multiple choice question that Anonymous Fake refused to answer?”

      > No, I think I pretty well have that covered,

      I don’t think you have that covered, and I would like an explicit, point by point reply.

      Trouble with the Eve response is that the Eve response tends to be, not blue pilled, but purple pilled and black pilled.

      Which is an error, but does not indicate a hostile enemy agent doing a “Hail fellow reactionary” act.

      • Strannik says:

        It’s not an ”error” Jim, it’s the Christian explanation. Woman is saved according to St. Paul, by her obedience. Obedience to parents and husband, and saved through her domesticity and most of all by motherhood. She is to follow her husband as if he was Christ, in order to follow Christ, and be taught by her Father and Mother and then Husband of the things of God. If I had to answer the question I’d have chosen ”E”, but it’s got evolutionary theory baggage there, which i’m not buying, which is why I didn’t.

        • R7 Rocket says:

          @Strannik

          “I’d have chosen ‘E’”

          Good enough. The reason I asked is because you’ve shown gamma tells, so I had to ask to make sure you’re not playing the “my fellow reactionary” game. A game that Anonymous Fake is playing.

          • Strannik says:

            what do you mean exactly by a ”gamma tell”?

              • Strannik says:

                I still find some aspects of ”Neoreaction” problematic, but for all that, I’d still be thankful that at least you folks are free of the faggotry and other liberalism plaguing western society.

                I’m more Demotic and Populist to be sure, (my Monarch more of a Caesar than a Basileous), and unashamedly so, but definitely Authoritarian.

                • R7 Rocket says:

                  @Strannik
                  “ I still find some aspects of ”Neoreaction” problematic, but for all that, I’d still be thankful that at least you folks are free of the faggotry and other liberalism plaguing western society.”

                  The low testosterone passive aggressive responses are a gamma tell.

                  The “secret king” gamma tell, is where a gamma male insists his status and importance is higher than it really is.

                  A lot of entryists on this blog exhibited gamma tells. They all failed or refused to answer RedPill on women questions.

                  I really miss Inquisitor Shaman. His ability to administer righteous RedPill on women tests was second to none.

          • Anonymous Fake says:

            Fascists and tankies can’t be reactionaries now? Anything to the economic left of Ayn Rand is just playing around now? Including Catholic subsidiarity theories? We’re really at the end of economic history?

            Just keep trying 1950’s capitalism over and over again, and hoping it will turn out differently this time? Even China isn’t like 1950’s America.

            It has always been a conservative delusion that the rich are pious, diligent, dutiful and intelligent patriots rather than reptiles in skinsuits cheating and inflicting usury against honest labor. Meritocracy taken too far always rewards cheating, not good character. Monarchists know this. Capitalist liberals don’t.

            At least I can honestly say no one’s paying me off, and I wouldn’t sell any part of my soul anyway!

            • jim says:

              For a fascist to be a reactionary, needs to be red pilled on women and to reject the socialist part of national socialism. Hitler’s socialism failed and devastated his war effort, Franco’s socialism failed and Franco backed off from socialism, losing a lot of credibility in the failure of his economic policies and his retreat.

              A tankie cannot be a reactionary. A tankie is by definition a supporter of communism as implemented in the Soviet Union. Which is not very reactionary.

              A reactionary is someone who responds to the failures of our current system by seeking a reinstallation of an old, known to work, operating system. He is not someone who wants to install a different failing version of the new system.

              I suppose a Russian tankie in Russia would be a reactionary, since he wants to revert the system to an earlier system. But there are no or very few tankies in Russia, because they all experienced the failure of that system.

              In a country where Soviet Socialism has never been the operating system, a tankie is not a reactionary, but a radical.

              I want to reinstall the system that gave us science, technology, industrialization, eugenic elite fertility, and empire.

              • Anonymous Fake says:

                The West peaked in materialistic/racial terms in the 1910’s, if that’s your ultimate benchmark. The Federal Reserve can be blamed for decline even more than WWI, which encouraged innovation and didn’t destroy much of any nation’s population base, at least compared to contraception. Blaming the war for so many problems is a blatant historical red herring.

                In our times, bankers encouraging people to use housing as a speculative asset instead of a family home is what suppresses fertility the most, and this noticeably happens a generation before the poz is introduced. Hanging bankers is a good start to solving all our problems, and this goes without saying, and so it usually isn’t said, but the first serious group to say it is the vehicle we need.

                Occupy Wall Street was black propaganda posing meant to make the criticism of bankers look absurd. What we have to look out for is more radical and less chic.

                • jim says:

                  Bullshit. Your dates do not correspond to observed problems.

                  Dysgenic fertility and the collapse of marriage set in with the attempted divorce of the slut Queen Caroline in 1820, and families have been going downhill since then, with a partial recovery during the interval between first and second wave feminism 1933 to 1963. Science died shortly after World War II, when Harvard got the upper hand over the Royal Society, and imposed the theological method (peer review, truth by the consensus of synod of bishops) in place of the scientific method. This led to technological decline starting in 1972, and now we are out of tritium, lithium six, and plutonium 238, and our fighter planes are getting slower, less maneuverable, can no longer fly as high, and have reliability problems that leave them either grounded or “not fully mission capable”.

                  The theological method is appropriate for establishing consensus on right conduct, but fails catastrophically on scientific matters, such as global warming, vaccination, and the role of fats in heart disease. Every question of science fact gets turned into a moral, rather than scientific issue, not just stuff like warmism and eating fat, but even the quark gluon question, dark energy, and spontaneous symmetry breaking.

                  We peaked in wealth and technology about 2006, hard to pin down the exact date, because some technologies are still improving, notably DNA reading and editing, while others topped out shortly after 1972. Last man on the moon, and all that.

                  > In our times, bankers encouraging people to use housing as a speculative asset instead of a family home is what suppresses fertility the most,

                  Nuts.

                  A home is an asset that can be used to raise children, so what bankers are doing raises, rather than lowers fertility. What lowered fertility and continues to lower it is the criminalization and abolition of heterosexual marriage.

                • Allah says:

                  In our times, bankers encouraging people to use housing as a speculative asset instead of a family home is what suppresses fertility the most

                  This looks like what someone parodying communism would say. Might be getting trolled.

                • jim says:

                  Commies self parody unintentionally.

              • pdimov says:

                “I suppose a Russian tankie in Russia would be a reactionary, since he wants to revert the system to an earlier system. But there are no or very few tankies in Russia, because they all experienced the failure of that system.”

                How is that different from your experiencing the failure of the American system in real time, and still wanting to revert it to an earlier state?

                • jim says:

                  Difference is that Soviet Russia had breadlines, and that even their military equipment was not very good.

                • pdimov says:

                  Sure, but my general point was that having experienced the failure of a system does not preclude wanting to revert to an earlier point.

                  One can always pretend that the failure was not inevitable, but incidental, and that this time it will be different.

                • jim says:

                  A reactionary knows history and thinks about it, has to, because by definition he is looking at the past for lessons and models for the present. The “this time it is different” excuse is getting old.

                  So, no tankie reactionaries.

        • R7 Rocket says:

          @Strannik

          Unlike American Christianity, the Russian Orthodox Church resists Social Justice Progressivism (Islam has even better resistance), but it’s not immune.

          There’s a reason that Jim is calling the Eve response an error.

          • Strannik says:

            You might say I’m in an even more traditional grouping of Russian Orthodoxy

            • R7 Rocket says:

              @Strannik

              In contrast, Progressivism is immune to Christianity and even Islam.

              Despite the fact that Progressivism has vulnerabilities such as its easily debunked claim that men and women are interchangeable. Genetic science’s discoveries threaten Progressivism’s claim that blacks are just like whites.

              Progressivism requires that we believe in six impossible things before breakfast, yet it is immune to Christianity and Islam.

              • Strannik says:

                It’s a religion unto itself, Progressivism is, that came out of Western heretical ”Christianity”. I have specific ideas on that which are fairly conclusive to me. But having that basis like a religion, Progressivism has many convinced adherents.

                Islam when in confrontation with Progressivism, finds it’s own weak spot in sexual and other degeneracy.

          • Allah says:

            Americans have a funny idea about Orthodoxy. Orthodox countries are some of the most degenerate places in Europe, their biggest export is cheap white women. Something like three quarters of their babies are aborted and they are the only white third world countries in existence. Some Westerners see less non-whites there and conclude this must be because they are really right wing when the real reason is that nobody wants to go there except to take their women. Don’t let the kitsch paintings fool you.

            • Strannik says:

              What a load of shit. You must be living back in the 1990’s, with the collapse of the Soviet Bloc and all. Of course, you are a Turk and thus the enemy, so it’s entirely understandable why you slander the men who crush you, over and over again.

              • Allah says:

                Some of them aren’t Africa level failed states anymore, congratulations to them. It is a big improvement, in that their women used to go abroad to get fucked for money and tended to carry a lot of STDs, now they are cleaner and do it for free. They became wealthier and still my lovely brown Muslim third-world war torn shit hole housing the most refugees on earth is just about wealthier than most Orthodox countries. Think about that for some time.

                We haven’t even got to how ridiculous the religion itself is yet, just its tragic effects on its believers. If Orthodox countries ever get wealthy enough to be at the crosshairs of immigrants, they are going to get blacked. That is, if anyone is left after half of them die childless and the other half immigrate to Western Europe.

                My entire country is on formerly Orthodox land, QED.

                • Strannik says:

                  Turk, you said;

                  ”Some of them aren’t Africa level failed states anymore, congratulations to them.”

                  Can’t keep a good Slav or Orthodox Christian down, but you know that definitely, don’t you?

                  ” It is a big improvement, in that their women used to go abroad to get fucked for money and tended to carry a lot of STDs, now they are cleaner and do it for free. ”

                  Sounds like sour grapes from a failed attempt to pick up a Russian or Bulgarian tourist, lol.

                  ”They became wealthier and still my lovely brown Muslim third-world war torn shit hole ”

                  Funny you would speak of your alleged homeland like that, but then again you can take the Turk out of Central Asia but can’t take Central Asia out of the Turk, can you?

                  ”housing the most refugees on earth is just about wealthier than most Orthodox countries. Think about that for some time.”

                  Getting fat from being coddled by NATO membership during the Cold War, a period which is rapidly ending, is something you should be thinking about.

                  ”We”

                  ”We are Legion”, right?

                  ”haven’t even got to how ridiculous the religion itself is yet, just its tragic effects on its believers.”

                  Only the ridiculous effect of eternal life with God, and you can have that too if you seek Him in Truth.

                  ” If Orthodox countries ever get wealthy enough to be at the crosshairs of immigrants, they are going to get blacked.”

                  We know the outcome already, in the end.

                  ” That is, if anyone is left after half of them die childless and the other half immigrate to Western Europe.”

                  You only wish. But like I said, you can have the Truth and it will set you free indeed.

                • Allah says:

                  As expected, you cannot refute the fact that the Orthodox are poor, corrupt, miserable third world thieves who have zero control over their women so you throw insults and religious word salad.

                • jim says:

                  Yes, women are out of control in Orthodox lands – but they are not under control in Iran either, and at least Orthodoxy is trying, however feebly, to do something about it.

                • Allah says:

                  Orthodox lands along with south-east Asia have a reputation of exporting cheap women, are the Orthodox exporting fewer women? Seems like their men are joining them in fleeing their crap countries.

                • The Cominator says:

                  “Yes, women are out of control in Orthodox lands”

                  Orthodox countries have a whore problem but not a feminist one, whore problem is 100x less bad than a feminist problem.

                • pdimov says:

                  >Some of them aren’t Africa level failed states anymore,

                  Which specific Orthodox countries were Africa level failed states, which no longer are, and which are still?

                • Steve Johnson says:

                  Orthodox countries have a whore problem but not a feminist one

                  Same thing; feminism is just the ideology of whoredom.

                  Ignore what people say feminism is all about and look for the unarticulated consistent principle and the way you do that is by looking at a novel case and figuring out how two people who don’t coordinate in advance in how to respond, respond. What guides the evaluation of if something is “feminist” or not? Ultimately, “if a belief or policy restricts female sexual choice or freedom, it is against feminism; if it maximizes it, it is feminist” is the guiding principle of feminism – the unarticulated coordination point.

  7. Anonymous Fake says:

    Have any of you guys ever wondered why you’ve never seen a business that strongly encouraged the Amish to apply? Or even moderate Christians or Muslims? Why do capitalists mysteriously fail to hire the most sedulous workers who happen to oppose sexual liberation? What do you think motivates the capitalists?

    Why do you think the 1950’s always leads to the 1960’s? Usually within a decade.

    • jim says:

      Hiring people on the basis of moral character is illegal, because racist and sexist, and the state has an elaborate, intrusive, and terrifying apparatus to detect and punish employers who do that.

      I well recollect my entirely non verbal conversations with the top boss concerning a sexually immoral woman who was disinclined to do any useful work and frequently issued bogus charges of sexual harassment.

      He acted as if HR had spies listening at the keyhole to rat him out to the secret police – which they probably did.

      • alf says:

        OK, I’ll play devil’s advocate on this one.

        What about the meme that capitalists advocate for open borders because they like to import cheap labor? It is no secret that they like to export labor to cheap countries, so to conclude that they import cheap labor is not that much of a stretch.

        • jim says:

          There can be no doubt that capitalists support open borders for labor movement.

          But what they want is a system similar to that of Dubai, where borders are open for job offers, people are able to come in because the employer offers them a job with visa metaphorically or literally stapled to the job offer, and if they don’t perform, they get thrown out of the country.

          What we have instead is that H1Bs are quite restrictive – very hard to import a maid, and under Trump, it has become a whole lot harder to import an engineer, while our borders are open for people who come in to live on crime and welfare, because they profile as democrat voters and add to the census count for blue states, thus increasing blue state representation in the house of representatives and the electoral college.

          Yes, capitalists want borders open for labor, and closed for useless layabouts. What we have, however, is obviously not what capitalists want. Capitalists are responsible for H1Bs, but they are not responsible for the murder of Kate Steinle.

          I much like the Dubai system. It does not cause the problems our system causes. Don’t like your maid? She gets ejected from Dubai. Good system.

        • Anonymous Fake says:

          [*deleted*]

          • jim says:

            I am deleting all your stuff about sex and women, because it is repetitious spam, because you obviously know nothing about women, and because you have admitted you know nothing about women: “Women are a mystery in a puzzle in an enigma.”

            I am happy to debate those that disagree with me, but you are not debating, just endlessly repeating. Try responding to one of my comments or posts on sex and women, and when I say “respond”, don’t just confidently assert your claims yet again, but present evidence and argument rebutting my claims.

            If capitalists were popping all the virgins before I could get to them, I would be mighty pissed with capitalists, but I know well who is popping all the virgins.

            If women were gold diggers, the situation would be a lot better than it is.

            • Allah says:

              Are you? Whom did you debate and not censor here? The only one I remember is B, and even with him you said you wanted to censor but didn’t because you respected him.

              • jim says:

                I debate everyone. I censor everyone in the same way for the same reasons. I censored B when he repetitiously made assertions that had already been rebutted as if no rebuttal had been made, failing to respond to the rebuttal – which is the same way I censor everyone. You have to engage your interlocutor. If you just repeat yourself and ignore your interlocutor, the thread goes on forever, wasting space and reader bandwidth.

    • Bob says:

      I knew a couple businesses growing up that mostly hired amish. I think there’s a gun belt company that does currently. Amish Belts, iirc.

      • jim says:

        When you have under fifty employees, different rules apply – you are allowed to hire an HR that is on your side, rather than the side of the enemy. If over fifty employees, the government intrudes to make sure your HR is your enemy, a branch of the government that lives in your office to spy on you.

        Under fifty employees, HR answers to the boss. Over fifty employees, the boss answers to HR.

      • Dave says:

        I watched some Youtube videos of Class A RVs being assembled, and the workers on the factory floor all looked Amish.

  8. Strannik says:

    Seems to me as I look at the original Blog post from Jim and this thread, that it really doesn’t matter so much that the military becomes privatized in it’s logistical arm, because in the new era we’re in, mercenaries and private security forces, contractors and whatnot, they are increasingly taking over the professional warrior military functions out of the hands of governments as it is. This is regardless of what I or others may like and renders protest against the universal trend irrelevant.

    The Taliban and ISIS are not State actors in the Westphalian sense…

  9. Pooch says:

    It seems like Trump is not focusing much on arresting and bringing charges against people who are out of power and no longer a threat to him. If that’s the case, I’m fine with that. Let him focus resources on removing libs still in power who are actively obstructing him.

    • Strannik says:

      I agree that that is a sound strategy, because powerless liberals whining also serves to amplify their own nullity to the rest of them, serving to demoralize and confuse.

      • The Cominator says:

        Not a good strategy to put yourself in power you need to create terror and shed blood. Blood is the true oil that anoints kings. Its sad that Trump probably still isn’t strong enough to take over the Justice Department…

        • Strannik says:

          I know that sounds really cool, but it’s not a political strategy. Nazi Germany allowed a degree of dissent among it’s German opponents, with the understanding that such opposition was powerless and could not or would not act to a significant degree. President Trump is not at the point where he absolutely must rely on force alone, not when he isn’t entirely sure who is loyal and who is not. Can you imagine plans of his for a counter-coup leaking to the press? He sure as hell can. It’s tempting to wish the simple and easy solution were carried out; except that it is neither simple nor easy to just start gunning people down.

  10. BC says:

    Any idea why Barr let McCabe go free? It seems like it will really empower Trump’s foes.

    • jim says:

      If Barr is to blame, he is a traitor who deserves death, and if he lives, Trump and his family will surely be executed by the Democrats.

      But I don’t think Barr is responsible. Just as Trump cannot control the Justice Department, neither can Barr.

  11. Anonymous Fake says:

    [*deleted*]

    • jim says:

      Unresponsive. Answer the questions about the behavior of women.

      Who scores? Jeremy Meeks or Jeff Bezos.

      Why?

      • Anonymous Fake says:

        [*deleted*]

        • jim says:

          Somehow you managed to “answer” the question without saying anything about the nature of women. The question was not about Bezos and Meeks, but about women.

          It is the Woman Question, not the Capitalist Overlord question.

          Commies worry about the distribution of wealth. We worry about the distribution of young women. An argument over whether I get more pussy than Bezos and Zuckerberg put together is irrelevant to that question – it is relevant to commie issues of distribution of wealth, but that is not the topic that you were asked about.

          Not going to allow the argument to be sidetracked to whether I get more pussy than Bezos.

          • Anonymous Fake says:

            Women are a mystery in a puzzle in an enigma. They like either Chad or Timmy depending on the day of the month. It doesn’t matter. The elites who use women to direct society matter. The “red pill” demographic thinks far too much of women, in any sense of the word.

            What is certain is that women despise solid 40 hour workweek warriors, the traditional family man, who are neither Meeks nor Bezos. They despise their own children, too, as they dump them in school any time they are allowed to. They don’t pick up on any warrior signals that don’t obviously involve brute force.

            • jim says:

              If Bezos could use women to direct society, I am sure he would use them for something more fun.

              Women matter because they are the means of reproduction. The means of production do not matter because we have enough stuff, but we do not have enough pussy.

              Our society is dying for lack of grandchildren, not lack of bread. Money does not buy power, and it does not buy family, and the things it can buy do not matter all that much. The priestly class turns status into great buckets of money, as for example Biden, Obama, and the Clintons, but Bill Gates cannot turn money into status despite trying very hard.

              Can’t buy power (though Bloomberg is trying) can’t buy status (though Bill Gates is trying) and can’t buy family.

              Trump used money to pull pussy the way I, on a much humbler scale, use money to pull pussy. He used money to set up events in which he would register on women’s primitive ape level status radar as the alpha male. Money cannot get you pussy, no matter how much you have. It enables you to set up events that will, if you play your cards right, get you pussy. But you cannot do that if HR is in the vicinity.

              Marxism only flies if you can stir up hungry people to kill the peasant with two cows and kill his cows, or, in more recent times, loot and burn the supermarket. Not going to fly when everyone is too fat, but no one has grandchildren. Tell the proles that rich people have alienated them from the means of production, they are going to tune you out. Nobody wants to kill the peasant who has more cows than he does.

              Telling people that rich people are the problem is unlikely to persuade when the problem is lack of grandchildren, rather than lack of bread.

              • Oliver Cromwell says:

                It would be useful for someone for someone to put together a concise guide on using modest amounts of money to create status. I have some ideas, and have had some success, but I would have a lot more success if I could focus on this full time.

                Money buys time and the appearance of freedom, which is high status and sexy, but after $1m it does not make much difference to have more. Most men worth $1m are working 100 hour weeks to pay for the $10m lifestyles demanded by their free range wives, not using it to attact a higher quality and more loyal wife.

                I am not sure Bill Gates is playing the game. He never used his billions to buy a personal stylist or a hair cut. I think he thinks he should get status based on his competence, not his money, which is even more clueless than expecting the money to do it.

              • A says:

                Trump used money to pull pussy the way I, on a much humbler scale, use money to pull pussy.

                There is also the strategy pioneered by TylerDurden of Real Social Dynamics fame, where you use money, or the appearance of money, to isolate the woman, then switch to hard caveman. If you are willing to throw caution to the wind, or have a source of income that is resistant to theft by the state, then you can even throw in some push-pull and turn her on to the extent that she will fuck without a condom. Throw her out of the house afterwards, be the asshole you knew you could be, and with any luck some beta bux will end up raising your child.

                All in all, however, PUA tactics are much better for getting pussy than for producing children. A statewide clampdown on women’s behavior will be needed to lift the birthrate appreciably, and especially to give eugenic fertility wherein the children are raised by a responsible mother and father.

            • R7 Rocket says:

              @Anonymous Fake

              “ Women are a mystery in a puzzle in an enigma.”

              No they’re not. Since you’re obfuscating, here’s a multiple choice RedPill on women question. Pick one. Obfuscation isn’t possible with multiple choice questions.

              Women misbehave because –
              [A] Capitalism makes them misbehave, by economically incentivizing reckless high time-reference behavior over long-term planning. The capitalist class benefits from one night stands and sterility, as it benefits from third world immigration of spendthrift cheap labor to replace frugal whites.
              [B] The Jews make them misbehave, since the Jews own the media and the entire entertainment industry from Hollywood down to the tiniest pornography studio, and use them to direct propaganda at women, telling them to fuck blacks and lowlifes. The Jews deliberately intend for dysgenesis to occur, as part of their long-term White Genocide plan.
              [C] Sorry, but this is a misleading question. Women don’t misbehave at all. All misbehavior is done by men, who are vile pigs.
              [D] Lecherous men make them misbehave, since men are ultimately responsible for all female behavior (including misbehavior), and unlike women, men have self-control and moral agency. Thus it logically follows that any female misbehavior would merely reflect bad decisions taken by irresponsible and lustful men.
              [E] They are feral, blindly following ancient instincts from the time we were apes in the jungle, which instincts tell them to cruise for rape by alpha male Chads, and to resist kicking-and-screaming all attempts to restrain them from pursuing alpha male Chads. Stable monogamy has always been a conspiracy by men against women.

              • Anonymous Fake says:

                A is what I’ve been saying and it’s getting deleted. Capitalists have a short time preference and governments best produce long term infrastructure, including the family, by taxing and suppressing the horny capitalists. All serious industrial policy requires a powerful state, while capitalists are in the business of selling insurance to each other and doing each other’s laundry.

                • alf says:

                  It is interesting to see leftist shills switch from progressivism to socialism once they find out no one likes social justice warriors anymore.

                  The good thing about socialism is that it has been tried, failed, and debunked. It is naked greed and envy and hatred, and the majority of people are not buying it. Hurrah capitalism.

                • R7 Rocket says:

                  @Anonymous Phony

                  “ A is what I’ve been saying and it’s getting deleted.”

                  It’s getting deleted because it’s the wrong answer.

                  You fed shills really, really cannot deviate from feminism can’t you? No wonder the Steele Dossier flopped spectacularly. If FBI/CIA cannot deviate from feminism when targeting a high value target (President Trump), they cannot do so anywhere else.

            • jim says:

              > Women are a mystery in a puzzle in an enigma.

              Not to us. We have women all figured out. Women are driven by simple ape level sexual instincts. Since we are descended from those women who did not get much sexual choice, female instincts have not been subject to significant evolution since we looked like apes.

              • Strannik says:

                You don’t even have to believe in evolution to be redpilled on the woman question, I certainly do not. Eve was directly an agent of the Fall of Man, his ”de-evolution” if you will, and women being feeble in their rationality even more than men are still continue to unconsciously bring Mankind (themselves and their children included) ever more downward in sin, ignorance, and even physical degredation. I of course do not include the Mother of God in this typology of womanhood; Her Son saved her and purified her at the Annunciation of His Birth, and she is the very model of Christian obedience in general.

                • R7 Rocket says:

                  @Strannik

                  Can you answer my multiple choice question that Anonymous Fake refused to answer?

                • R7 Rocket says:

                  @Strannik

                  Can you answer my multiple choice question that Anonymous Fake refused to answer?

            • alf says:

              Women are a mystery in a puzzle in an enigma.

              Imagine not having figured out women. Hey, at least you’ll always have porn.

  12. I remember finding an article written 2-3 years ago, a professor saying the climate change movement is dead, because it got all kinds of social justice sprinkled over it now and that is when people zone out. That is, people get it that if they are talking about a yuuge global disaster and then smuggling some petty feminism microagression whatever matters into it, then they cannot mean the yuuge global disaster seriously.

    The Greta happened and now FM says they are winning: https://fabiusmaximus.com/2020/02/12/climate-policy-debate-is-dead/

    The Cathedral works in mysterious ways. They were astroturfing climate activists for decades. Why was this latest assault so much more succesful than the earlier ones? This time everybody gave in, mayors all over etc. I get it, the whole point is that they, the elites wanted it, and just astroturfed demand they can pretend to “give in” to. But why did they suddenly win this one when not for decades?

    Perhaps because Trumpism works for economic growth, and voters like that, so they had to declare economic growth a bad thing. But in that case they would have started the whole thing in America. Not in Sweden then gradually Germany, Europe, UK and only later on America. Sweden, Germany etc. does not have a Trump, did not see that kind of growth.

    • The Cominator says:

      I can’t speak for Europe but I don’t see how they are winning in America when less and less people believe them? I’d say the popular belief in climate alarmist peaked probably in the late 1990s (there wasn’t too much access to the Internet) before Michael Crichton (now he was a good guy from Harvard) published his novel State of Fear which among other things tore into climate hysteria.

    • BC says:

      Based on reddit the the Cathedral has scarred the kids to death with climate change as a doomsday cult. Millions believe it. Which indicates the issue was rebuilt by teaching scaring the shit out of school kids all the way to adulthood about it.

    • jim says:

      > Why was this latest assault so much more succesful than the earlier ones? This time everybody gave in, mayors all over etc. I get it, the whole point is that they, the elites wanted it, and just astroturfed demand they can pretend to “give in” to. But why did they suddenly win this one when not for decades?

      The left always ends up drinking its own koolaide.

      The left inherently moves ever lefter, it has been moving ever lefter for a bit over two centuries, and the wild eyed dreams of what was the lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe a few decades previous wind up being implemented in full, and then implemented even more so, and then conservatives start conserving what was a short time ago evil and madness.

      And the evil and madness always gets implemented in the provinces of the American empire, before it gets implemented in the heartland of empire.

      Trees do not grow to the sky, but they grow till they fall.

      Saint Greta Thunberg is total astroturf, but the left must act as if she is real and as if people take her seriously. This is inherent in the nature of the left.

      • Encelad says:

        The all Climate Change religion hits me close because I have acquaintances of mine who have fallen deeply for this moronic doomsday cult. And they are otherwise smart, or at least smarter than me. I even heard concerns about the inevitability of an armed conflict with the Chinese, since we can’t let them destroy the planet. I don’t know if this is what the Cathedral thinks, and while it seems to me that most of this talking is kayfabe, Jim, you mentioned somewhere that other than holiness spiral, the reason the Left gets more evil and more insane in the fact that the following generation “doesn’t get the joke” and takes kayfabe as real. I hope they are not so foolish to wage holy war against China in the name of Gaia, but honestly I can expect anything from them.

        • BC says:

          The left has been threatening war with China over China’s program to forcibly convert it’s terrorist Muslim population. First I’ve heard of them extending it to global warming.

          • Encelad says:

            This link was on my social feeds today. Totally otherwise respectable people commenting: “I don’t say this is good, but…” “I know I should not be relieved because it’s a tragedy, but at least..” etc..

            http://archive.is/wip/6dEbv

            These people are more dangerous than they appear. If you call humans “cancer of the planet” then, the logical solution is only one…

      • >And the evil and madness always gets implemented in the provinces of the American empire, before it gets implemented in the heartland of empire.

        This is one of the things I never fully understood. Moldbug had a good parallel, that ideas spread like invasive species to places without natural enemies, or like smallpox devastating a population that has no natural immunity. And the US has a certain immunity, a combination of older kinds of liberalism and conservative Christianity. Yet, most of the time, most viral infections tend to happen in the center of the outbreak. Most of the times, most members of a species live where they evolved.

        Similarly, one can make arguments that there is more resistance to empires in the center than in the periphery. The mob of the city of Constantinople could depose emperors, while provincial revolts were crushed. Still. Something does not really add up to me.

        One can make arguments like Germany was ideologically reconstructed after WW2. But Sweden? What happened to Sweden? Why would Sweden after WW2 listen to America? They were neutral in the war, they stayed neutral, not even members of the NATO. Their Grippen fighter planes are not even compatible with NATO armament.

        Their original 1930’s spiral towards socialism looks like an entirely homegrown Lutheran spiral to me. Back then that socialism was quite nationalistic. Then… I seriously don’t know what happened.

        They tend to out-poz most European countries. Danes make a lot of jokes about that. In this model, it would imply they have a sort of a special relationship with Harvard or Washington. But do they? I never saw any evidence of that.

        • > Lutheran spiral

          BTW once I was bored and looked into the background of the non-Jewish members of the Communist Party of the USA. I didn’t keep exact stats but I saw a clear overrepresentation of Lutherans.

        • Not Tom says:

          But Sweden? What happened to Sweden? Why would Sweden after WW2 listen to America?

          Scandicucks gonna cuck. The theory I’ve heard is that all of their best men left Sweden to become adventurers and pirates, and what was left were… well, the leftovers.

          And if that sounds far-fetched, well… it’s never just one thing. HBD is real, not just in broad racial categories but also ethnicities. The Cathedral is real. Hypergamy, shit testing and sexual selection are real. Jewish legalism and neuroticism are real, the Hajnal line is real, maturity transformation is a real financial problem, Democracy is a horrible political system, the gay mafia is causing serious problems, and the economic and cultural devastation of Europe after two world wars left a huge vacuum that Marxism partially filled.

          Social entropy (Moldbug called this the “W-force”) works in strange and sometimes unpredictable ways. Even if we could identify a single coherent root cause, and I doubt that such a thing exists, it wouldn’t matter any more because it has corrupted and become entangled with so many other formerly-innocuous things, like the modern toxic form of “corporate culture”, which is both a consequence and an amplifier of the progressive state religion.

          We’ve got a big, big cleanup job ahead of us, but we have to start somewhere, and the best place to start is probably restoring elite fertility, regardless of what precisely may have happened in the past. That’s true in America and it’s true in Sweden. Fix the management, and the rest naturally follows.

        • Pseudo-chrysostom says:

          For a long time i’ve had the intuition that sundry satanists, heebs, and commies (but i repeat myself), were perversely attracted to spreading poz in nordic countries, precisely *because* they were such nice places, and emblematic of ‘archetypical’ europoid peoples.

      • BTW it seems Kuhn invented “consensus science”: https://principia-scientific.org/who-got-the-scientific-method-right-karl-popper-or-thomas-kuhn/

        “In contrast to Popper, the Kuhnian view is that “wrong” results (i.e. those which are in conflict with the prevailing paradigm) are considered to be due to errors on the part of the researcher rather than findings which damage the consensus view.”

        “However, as conflicting evidence increases, a crisis point is reached where a new consensus view is arrived at and this generates a so-called paradigm shift.”

        I don’t want to shoot the messenger. Kuhn didn’t say consensus science is the correct way to do science, he just said this is how scientists tend to operate in practice. And indeed they often do. It is known that many experts want to stick to the orthodoxy they were thought. Social inertia is a known thing, and no one likes to study something for 30 years and gain status through that, just to have the very thing disproved. Ideas are thus often “sticky” and require a serious assault to overturn.

        Interestingly, you tend to say best science was English science 1680 to 1800 and Kuhn’s examples tend to be earlier (Copernicus) or later (Einstein). I tried to look up the era now, to see if ideas were “sticky” or rather new ideas were easily accepted, and I could not find an answer because it seems the science of the era was practical (Hooke’s microscope, Boyle’s pump) and experimental (Cavendish discovering hydrogen). They didn’t do that much theory, there wasn’t really much of a ruling theoretical paradigm, so I cannot really find out if it was easy to change or not.

        Kuhn’s work is a reply to Poppers. Popper’s primary influence was the big disappointment that the biggest minds of the era tended to believe in luminoferous aether and it was proven wrong. So Popper, like Kuhn, focuses very strongly on theories. It seems that in that era you like people did not theorize so much and were more practical-experimental.

        • @jim

          At this point I have to ask you: do you have a view similar to Nassim Taleb’s on science and technology? Taleb says mostly things are done by near-random tinkering. Even rocket science, the proverbial difficult theory was invented after tinkerers built rockers. Practice informs theory, not the other way around. Tinkering might be called engineering or technology when it is about something of everyday use, or it can be called science when it is about inventing a telescope or microscope and just looking at stuff with it and the stuff discovered with it becomes part of science. So it is not as much about engineering driving science, but more like tinkering-engineering and tinkering-science driving theoretical science, not the other way around.

          I personally find it pretty impressive that when the telescope or microscope were invented, all kinds of discoveries sort of automatically popped out of them just by looking at stuff with them. This can be contrasted about all the experiments that get published today in peer-reviewed journals. An experiment is an artificial setup. It is often questionable how it relates to the real world. Just looking at the real world stuff with such devices is, observing the real world as it is, with more accuracy than the unaided eye, is IMHO more reliable, what you see is there, simply. So from this angle science could be much revitalized by building new kinds of “detectors” and just looking at things with them. Are you thinking in this kind of direction?

          • Aldon says:

            All you need to do to make any seriously non-cucked or degenerate man doubt “science” is to ask where all the “big science” practicioners are who are writing against trannies, feminism, multiculturalism, and rejecting liberalism. There’s who, E-celebs like Ed Dutton?

            • That does not mean much beyond that they are afraid. The Soviet scientists who sent Gagarin to space did not speak out against the system either. Cost: loss of job/career/potentially life. Benefit: nothing, as speaking out against the system does not change the system. I guess some people should be brave (when the right time comes) but not the lab-coats, but rather those who are in politics and have the ability to change politics, like charisma.

              • Aldon says:

                Except the system impacts what can and can’t be openly funded and studied. What the science men themselves preach and practice.

                You have Dick Dawkins saying we’re all africans. The space program a bust. The science of intelligence limited by refusal to accept racial and sex differences. The denial of homosexuality as a pahthology and the pushing of cutting a boy’s weiner off as totally fine. Denial of race. And all the rest.

                We’re discussing matters thst impact.the fate of society. For none of the labcoats to not just oppose it but do mass studying to the contrary points to dishonesty to accepting the narrative.

                • Not Tom says:

                  For none of the labcoats to not just oppose it but do mass studying to the contrary

                  Not really. That’s like claiming engineers are “mass implementing” censorship. While it’s true that 98% are afraid to oppose it, it’s less than 1% who are actually doing it. Scientists aren’t a class; most of them work in very narrow fields, studying phenomena that are assumed to be mundane and praying that they find something unusual or unexpected enough to get published. They’re doing exactly the kind of tinkering that they should be doing.

                  The journals themselves, and the culture around publishing, are pretty dysfunctional. Used to be the case that journals were like blogs, anyone could publish, and what mattered was citations and applications. That was a pretty good model. Today, publishing itself is the goal, gated by the priestly committees of peer reviewers. If being published is the primary incentive, then researchers will produce a lot of useless garbage that publishers want, rather than what other practicing scientists have a legitimate use for.

                  A concrete, real-world example of where the former culture/system is still in place is open-source software. Programmers write whatever the hell they want, GitHub doesn’t really care what you publish, and the entire community decides what’s useful by using it – skin in the game. Also note how the Cathedral is trying to change all that with mechanisms like Codes of Conduct; they want to take control of GitHub, take control of the distribution, just like they took control of the science journals last century. If they aren’t stopped, engineering will become just like science, not because engineers have changed, but because the system and incentives have changed.

                • jim says:

                  Not so. The key open source projects have been shattered, as science was suppressed.

                  Open source now has “codes of conduct”.

                  Whenever an open source project adopts a code of conduct, the key contributors are purged for suspected crime thought and the project slowly dies of bitrot.

                  It’s purpose gets redefined from producing something that works to proving that morbidly obese transgendered women of colour are so much better than cisgendered white males, who need to go away and die.

                • Anonymous 2 says:

                  An interesting example is the fresh, new research area of cucked AI. Everyone involved seems to have smoothly swung into action without much or any debate or complaint.

                  “AI/AS should be designed and operated in a way that respects human rights, freedoms, human dignity, and cultural diversity.”

                  https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/03/27/ethically-aligned-design/

                  I assume we all can see where this is going.

                  https://blog.acolyer.org/2020/02/03/measure-mismeasure-fairness/

                  https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/even-artificial-intelligence-can-acquire-biases-against-race-and-gender

                  http://diversity.ai/

                  (Plenty more available. I should note that “acolyer” is a paper review blog, not a researcher per se.)

                • Not Tom says:

                  An interesting example is the fresh, new research area of cucked AI. Everyone involved seems to have smoothly swung into action without much or any debate or complaint.

                  Which, again, is currently a tiny minority of the people working in the field, but amplified by the Megaphone and bullying the rest into submission.

                  The big “scandal” here with scientists, engineers, etc. is that people basically do what they’re told, even if they find it uncomfortable. We already knew that; it’s one of the few reproducible findings from the psych field and is the whole point of priests-and-warriors reaction.

                  The people you want to blame are the people who made their entrance into the industry pushing poz, not the old veterans who would have lost their jobs by resisting it. Call them cowardly if you want, but most humans are cowards, when you get right down to it; that’s why we have warriors.

                • Anonymous 2 says:

                  Regardless of how many work on this poz topic, concerns about diversity etc are now considered valid and, I expect, even overriding to other aspects of research. Hence, you may have devised what you consider a better predictor for criminality or credit scoring but first please provide satisfactory answers to our questions on its impact on diversity.

                  Usually you can detect some pockets of resistance when these sorts of assaults occur but in this case everyone seems instead to have organized a parade, something which I found interesting (but not really encouraging).

                • jim says:

                  > Usually you can detect some pockets of resistance when these sorts of assaults occur but in this case everyone seems instead to have organized a parade,

                  Everyone seems to have forgotten that the previous parade gave us the Great Minority Mortgatge Meltdown.

                  The problem was that they stopped using indicators of creditworthyness that had disparate impact, so they wound up using indicators that showed that a drunken cat eating wetback fished out of a gutter outside Home Depot with a bottle of whiskey was a worthy recipient of a million dollar no-money-down mortgage. If you prevent an AI from engaging in crimethink, you are going to lobotomize it.

                  Affirmative action on mortgages was embarrassing, because even selecting the most creditworthy blacks, their creditworthyness ratings would have been unacceptable had they been white. So to cure the embarrassment, they mucked with the indicators, with the result that they wound up selecting the least creditworthy nams, rather than most creditworthy.

    • Steve Johnson says:

      An underappreciated reason for climate change hysteria is because now “climate change” is a mental deflection for progs when confronted with evidence of genetic racial / ethnic differences.

      “Both sides deny science – the right denies evolution, the left denies genetic difference between groups, the right denies climate change”. This isn’t just a rhetorical trick that they bring up when confronted with argument – this is a mental shortcut that is used to soothe cog dis so the more individuals become convinced that denying HBD is intentionally dishonest the more they have to increase the mental importance of “climate change” to keep up their mental “both sides are bad, might as well stick with the good guys” frame.

      • I am not sure those differences are really on their horizon yet. It is not official science, they can dismiss it easily.

        Look. Somewhere during the 20th century libs came up with the idea that you can no longer say Western Civ is superior than the rest because it is liberal. Mild Western conservative antifeminism is to be loathed, yet far more serious Islamic antifeminism is to be respected and imported. This is a huge cog dis, a huge doublethink, they have a coalition of the fringes who would be natural enemies if they would not have a common enemy in us, and libs have to think they all are good guys. To able to deal with this, they must be able to tolerate huge amounts of cog dis, doublethink.

        All those former libs who could not have tolerate this cog dis, have been redpilled by this very fact, by this gigantic double standard, and left their ranks.

        Besides, science is dry and boring. When most people say science, they mean their philosophical interpretation of science, the story they constructed from the facts of science. For example, Christians used to have a problem with Darwinism because its philosophical interpretation was “life is struggle for survival”. And you just cannot derive the finer things in life from that. So it is important to broadcast the message that the modern philosophical interpretation of Darwinism is more like a struggle for sex, there are plenty of male deer out there who survive just fine but don’t get to reproduce.

        Even if everything IPPC said was right, which is not because everything above 1 degree per 100 years warming is a completely finctional forcing in the models, their interpretation of “we are destroying the planet” would be flat out wrong, the planet would adapt, it always did, it is humans who would be in the shit. It is a pretty interesting twist that the people who would be in the biggest shit would be 1) lib elites, as they like to live in coastal cities that would flood 2) people living in tropical, hot places, who tend to be the libs favorite pets. It is almost… too convenient?

      • Dave says:

        It’s also a mental deflection from the fact that progs are going extinct because their religion is incompatible with the basic realities of human reproduction. They must convince themselves that they *chose* not to have children, and that it was the right choice because all life will soon perish in a fiery climate apocalypse.

        • Anonymous Fake says:

          [*deleted*]

          • jim says:

            These claims have already been rebutted. Please respond to the rebuttal. Simply repeating the same claims as if they were obviously and uncontroversial is spam.

            • Anonymous Fake says:

              You can rebut all you want. My point is that it has to be done in school, where capitalists mysteriously are nowhere to be found, except when they’re offering usurious student loans. My “lustful capitalist” model explains this better than any other.

              This is a ground game issue, mostly not an ideological issue. It’s an issue of force, not direction. Leftists seize the best locations (“the megaphone”) and conservatives wonder why capitalists consistently drag their heels, especially against the religious right.

              • jim says:

                Nothing mysterious about the fact that capitalists are not to be seen in school informing students about the job market.

                If I was recruiting, would not touch the schools with a ten foot pole. When a businessman gets roped into a school presentation, he gets made into a stage prop for the lies of our enemies. I have seen it happen from both sides.

                It is a hostile environment controlled by our enemies who are professional liars. Their job us synchronized lying so that the students hear the same lie from seemingly multiple independent sources. If you are going into fight, best to control the choice of ground.

                It is a priest versus merchant conflict. Thing is, the schools want the businessman to tell the kids that what they are learning is valuable. It is not. The schools will not allow the businessman to tell the students what will get you ahead.

                The schools want, and you want, good jobs to be issued as a reward for being teacher’s pet, not a reward for creating value for other people, want students to believe that is the way the world works, and if businessmen let themselves get roped into a school presentation, they will find themselves a loudspeaker for their enemies with the enemy holding the microphone.

                A businessman doing a presentation at a school would be like a doctor doing a presentation for lawyers. There is a basic conflict of interest between people who live by creating value, and people who live by creating lies, and if someone who creates value is on enemy turf, he is going to lose.

                • Mister Grumpus says:

                  “Synchronized lying”
                  +1

                • Anonymous Fake says:

                  What warriors and priests have in common is a sense of duty to their education, and a sense of honor that their work will be compensated fairly as its fruits get passed down through the generations. The warrior doesn’t like it, but he understands it, and this is the heart of all conflicts by definition: understanding something and disliking it. He knows it’s contrary to his nature, and he wants to reform it, but this always comes after securing what he is owed before moving on.

                  Merchants, curiously, have no problem with just dumping their kids in school and completely forgetting about them. This is the r-selected behavior pattern at work, that of a promiscuous animal with low investment in its offspring. The lustful capitalist. He only pretends to let the schools chew him out.

                  The warriors, our guys, are right in being upset at the schools, but they don’t demand respect from merchants as much as they need to. They understand correctly that the priests can be rational, but the priests can comfortably ignore warriors who miss the entire picture, which is to see the whole playing field of this game. Warriors have to see capitalists for what they are before they liberate themselves in a just amount and manner from the priests.

                  When there is synchronized lying between priests and merchants, the warrior has to punch down to the merchants first, for many reasons, before the priest gets the point. Merchants deserve a good thrashing every once in a while. The priests are oblivious.

                  The warrior ideally works in the market like a merchant, but demands a set salary like a priest. He looks at the potential for personal labor income in the context of his corporate firm and profession, not the market’s demands. I think only the Japanese truly understand what an employed warrior is like. The West only sees a “man of action” because the action isn’t understood, but there is more meaning to it than what the speculators and usurers do.

                • jim says:

                  > What warriors and priests have in common is a sense of duty to their education, and a sense of honor

                  Bullshit.

                  When the story that a priestly caste is coordinating on gets too far out of contact with reality, when you are coordinating on claims about this world that are false, falsifiable, and readily falsifiable, any sense of honor or decency becomes a disqualifying characteristic.

                  In a holiness spiral, the lies get worse and worse, and thus the people recruited into priestly jobs get worse and worse, gradually becoming “Point Deer make horse”. 指鹿為馬

                • R7 Rocket says:

                  @Anonymous Fake

                  People who refuse to answer RedPill on women questions should shut the fuck up.

  13. Strannik says:

    Cominator, you said;

    ”It almost sounds like you are arguing for the so called “rule of law”…”

    There’s no ”almost” about it, I am.

    ”Rule of law is a lie to justify rule of lawyers and always was.”

    Is writing down; ”you should not murder (or steal, etc…), and if you do you will be subject to penalties” a lie?

    Is holding people to accountability for their actions or failure to act a lie? No, it isn’t.

    ” The old left was fundamentally right when it said there was always a different law for the powerful than for the ordinary person…”

    Yes, and they and many others not even remotely ”Old Left” thought it was fundamentally unjust, because that’s what most people who have a conscience written in their heart believe, that there shouldn’t be a ”different law for the powerful than for the ordinary person”.

    ”that is innate to the nature of government that those connected at the highest levels don’t face the same law as us.”

    That’s not civilization, but savagery, Darwinian rule of might; ”red in tooth and claw”. In fact if anything, those who have power and responsibility should be held more accountable for their actions, not less.

    • The analogy for law is a measuring tape. Or scale, as in, be measured in the scales and be found light or heavy.

      The basic rule of law fallacy is to think these can sort of run automatically. Government by steam. The scale somehow gives an objective output on its own, without human judgement, interpretation.

      This is generally not so, in reality there is a human deciding on the measurement and the verdict. Judges, priests or kings.

      There is a certain kind of rule of law that is possible. If the rules are simple, like do not kill nor steal. (But can they be really simple? Is gun against pocket knife acceptable self-defense? Is piracy theft? They are never really simple.) So if they have a widely accepted common-sense intepretation. And if the judge, priest or king *decides* to go along with the common-sense interpretation, then the average dude of course feels like the law rules. Because the average dude has his own interpretation of law and if the ruler has the same interpretation, then of course he feels like the law rules.

      So the point to understand is that the law is not going to interpret itself, it is not automatic. What YOU mean under “law” is in fact YOUR interpretation of the law. If the ruler happens to have the same interpretation, great, you think the law rules. Because you confuse your interpretation with the law, with the law. I do too, everybody does. I mean, if the law is entirely man-made, then literally nothing but interpretations exist. If the law is trying to follow a pre-existing Divine or Natural law (God of Nature or Nature) then there is an essence of it beyond the interpretations but in practice only interpretations will be used as the basis of decisions.

      So, I might sound a little bit “post-modern” here, but in practice it is just interpretations. If the ruler uses the same interpretation as you do, it feels to you like the law rules.

      So. Then what happens when interpretations conflict? You think gun against pocket knife is not acceptable self-defense, some judge thinks it is. Who wins? Who gets to decide?

      Judges, priests, intellectuals tend to hide that their intepretations are their intepretations, they tend to present their views as objective truths. A more honest way is for a man to stand up and say “I interpret the law and judge the case this way. It is my personal decision. I accept responsibility for it. Be it on my soul.” This man is typically not a slimy intellectual, but someone brave and manly. A warrior. A King.

      This is a bit like Schmitt on “the sovereign is he who decides on the exception”. We all want Kings to usually rule in accord with common-sense interpretations of law. That would feel much like rule of law. But someone has to decide on the exception, someone has to decide between conflicting interpretations.

      • “In fact if anything, those who have power and responsibility should be held more accountable for their actions, not less.”

        By whom? This is what you need to think about. If you say God, fine. But the fallacy is to try to construct a political machine god. If some can judge the powerful, THEY are the powerful. Who judges them? No, not the people, forget that, the people follow one elite group or another. You have someone somewhere saying a final word, typically a single person or small committe dominated by a single person. Who judges them? If no one, then make their power formal and obvious. Make one of them King. There is always an “unjudged judge”, who is always powerful yet unaccountable. Think SCOTUS. SCOTUS legalized gaymarriage. What can one do against that legally? Nothing, really. Change the Constitution maybe, but they can just interpret the new one the same way. That is the point. There are always some kind of unjudged judge, unaccountable powerful person at the end of the chain of judging.

      • I mean, this way of thinking does not necessarily lead to monarchic absolutism. It is an analysis method, asking who holds those who hold the powerful accountable, accountable? Who judges the judges, quis custodiet…

        The purpose of this method is just to think clearer. Everybody wishes that God will hold the powerful accountable, so people like to try to make an earthly version of it without even being conscious of it. This is just about making it conscious. Once you are conscious about it, you have options.

        – Judges. SCOTUS. Actually this looked like a good idea for a century. Judges are the sort of law nerds who take laws seriously. Then it resulted in disparate impact and gaymarriage. Why? Because they were educated in pozzed universities.

        – Council of priests. Same as above. Church gets pozzed, then it does not work.

        – Council of nobles. Council of warrior aristocrats. Leads to civil war. One faction judges this way, another that way, well boys let’s just fight it out.

        – King.

    • Not Tom says:

      That’s not civilization, but savagery

      Ok, that’s it, you officially need to lurk moar. Read the Moldbug archives, read BAP if you’re into that sort of thing, then read the Jim archives, then start commenting again when you have at least a passable understanding of realpolitik.

      Reaction is a movement of people who looked at Whig history and ideas, and looked at Tory history and ideas, and decided that Tory history made a lot more sense and Tory ideas were a lot less destructive. You are trying to feed us Whig history and ideas. While that’s not as bad as trying to feed us Progressive history and ideas, it’s still a massive downgrade.

      If you want to debate in favor of the Whig narrative, show us first that you’ve actually read and understood the Tory narrative. Don’t just assert the Whig narrative as truth using annoying quotes and rhetorical flourishes like “savagery”; explain your understanding of the Tory narrative and explain why you think their arguments are wrong.

      This is like the political version of the WRP test. In the WRP test, you have to demonstrate that you can actually say what reactionaries believe about women without obscuring or misrepresenting it. This is the Tory test; prove that you understand the arguments against “rule of law” before wasting ten minutes of our time fervently insisting how great it is.

      I don’t like to attack putative allies, but if you’re going to stridently push these tired old tard-con memes about government, and not actually listen to other people’s explanations about why those memes are stupid, then gonna have to write you off as just another tard-con.

      And seriously, learn to reply and blockquote. It was funny the first few times, the chad meme was funny, but it’s starting to get old. You’re making the entire comments section all about you and what you believe. Don’t be that guy; if you just want to hear yourself talk, start your own blog.

    • Jan Martense says:

      ”that is innate to the nature of government that those connected at the highest levels don’t face the same law as us.”
      That’s not civilization, but savagery, Darwinian rule of might; ”red in tooth and claw”. In fact if anything, those who have power and responsibility should be held more accountable for their actions, not less.

      This is something I think everyone struggles with. And contra Not Tom, the idea of “rule of law” has been floating around forever, although certainly the Whigs took it to a hysterical extreme as they did everything.

      A good first step is trying to separate “ought” from “is.” As a Christian I, like you, believe there are certain laws of God which always exists by virtue of our humanity (e.g., as long someone is human they apply to him, by his very nature). And I believe that breaking said laws hurts both ourselves (by eroding our virtue) and those around us. And ideally, everyone would follow those laws. In fact, we already have a word to describe the kind of place where everyone DOES follow those laws: “Paradise.”

      But as nice as Paradise would be… we lost it at the Fall. And it’s not coming back, at least not by our own efforts. People will always sin, it’s just a fact. Luckily for society, people’s worst inclinations to sin are usually restrained by those directly above them in power. Ideally, a child’s inclination is restrained by his mother, and the mother’s by her husband, and the husband’s by his baron, and so forth. Until you hit the King. Who restrains the King’s inclination to sin? No one. Hence, although the King SHOULD follow natural law, Nrx recognizes that in reality, he will not. Ever.

      Of course, liberals have come up with all kinds of crazy solutions to this problem, the worst of which is called “democracy,” wherein the King’s power to break laws with impunity is given to…literally everyone. At least in theory.

      The problem will never go away. But the first step to minimizing it is at least recognizing that someone WILL always be above the law, even if they shouldn’t be.

      • jim says:

        > The problem will never go away. But the first step to minimizing it is at least recognizing that someone WILL always be above the law, even if they shouldn’t be.

        Christianity closes the circle symbolically. The peasant kneels to the King, the King kneels to God, God sacrificed himself to man, and the peasant eats God. We are all in this together. But attempting to actually close the circle in this world is immanentizing the Eschaton.

        Suppose you have a competent and socially cohesive elite. They will agree on rules of conduct whereby they sort out their disagreements without actually killing each other, and the result will look very like rule of law. But actually it is rule of an elite – and you get a republic of virtuous men, which is to say, a republic of a virtuous elite, because if you try to include all men, you are going to get a virtue shortage. It is rule by gentlemen – “gentle” because they don’t use violence on each other, just on everyone else.

        A Republic looks mighty like rule of law, but it is actually rule by a smart, virtuous elite that is in cooperate equilibrium. It is very good system. But we don’t have a virtuous elite, so, lacking a virtuous elite, rule by Kings is inevitable. We aim to provide a state belief system, based on the Christianity of the era where we had rule by Kings, that will make rule by Kings smoother and less obnoxious – and, over time, create a smart, virtuous, and eugenically fertile elite.

        Lacking a virtuous elite, the elite uses violence on each other (Sheriff Joe, Paul Manafort, Roger Stone), and eventually you get rule by one man. Sometimes cities burn and major portions of the population get murdered in the process leading to rule by one man. We would like a transition that goes a little smoother than that, something like August Caesar claiming, and probably believing, that he is restoring the Republic.

        And we would like a transition that comes sooner, Trump, American Emperor under God, the first of his name, to be followed by Trump Junior, rather than later, because, as the left goes ever lefter, the transition is apt to be bloodier. We may well end up with the transition being managed by a Stalin rather than an Augustus Caesar.

      • Not Tom says:

        This is something I think everyone struggles with.

        If you say so. To me, it all boils down to “life isn’t fair”, which I had learned by age 8 or so.

        The idea that anyone is going to make everything perfectly fair and just is childish – literally fairy-tale stuff. All we can do is look through history and try to infer what leads to a society that is at least reasonably fair and just, even if there still happens to be a lot of unfairness and injustice. And historically, those societies have always been ruled formally by a sovereign – one man, or in some rare cases with power divided amongst a virtuous elite, but the latter tends toward long-term instability.

        Faced with constant acts of hypocrisy by the powerful, one can either gasp and sputter and cry “unfair!” until purple in the face, or calmly accept that power is inherently hypocritical, and someone is always in power. No one expects the CEO to keep a 9-5 schedule, no one expects the police to follow speed limits. It’s not in any way a natural way to think, and legalfagging over “accountability” and “checks and balances” requires adherence to all sorts of hideous satanic memes.

        • Not Tom says:

          Incidentally, if you take a good look, you’ll see that most of the legal doctrines themselves encode the idea that the sovereign cannot be forced to follow any particular set of rules.

          For example: In English law, one of the fundamental rules is that no parliament can bind a future parliament. You are literally not allowed to even try to write a law that can’t be changed on a whim.

          And in the U.S. Constitution, any part of the Constitution itself if a supermajority of States agree, i.e. if a supermajority of elites (as understood at the time) agree.

          Corporate Terms of Service always say that the terms can be amended at any time, for any reason, usually without prior notice.

          We see this pattern all over the place, all the time. The people who make the rules don’t have to follow the rules, because what would be the point? They could just change the rules if they wanted. And in 99% of cases, nobody really objects to it or thinks it’s even unusual, never mind evil.

          If you find yourself rationalizing that something is terrible and unthinkable in this one scenario, but totally OK in every other scenario… it’s time to check your priors.

          • Not Tom says:

            “any part of the Constitution itself if a supermajority of States agree” should be “any part of the Constitution itself can be changed if a supermajority of States agree”.

            I could swear that was correct when I submitted it.

            • Strannik says:

              I guess I just assumed that the ‘Schmidttian State of Exception’ was assumed as true, but it’s still the exception that proves the rule. Sovereignty assumed when the US Constitution was still being followed that in order to save the Constitution (the written or un-written Constitution, as per de Maistre, etc…) one man at the top must have the power to go beyond it in order to save it. Hence the power of the President in Article 4 of the US Constitution to see to it that states continue to have a republican form of government…

              But I know that ultimately it’s a ”goddamned piece of paper” if nobody follows it anymore.

              I’m not Whig or Tory when it comes to Reaction, they have nothing to teach me with their squabbles because the roots of the problem go deeper in my opinion. I’m more of a Continental Reactionary, in the vein of Juan Donoso y Cortes and the previously mentioned Joseph de Maistre.

              So to me it’s not either/or; you have the rule of law for all save the one sovereign, who is above the law but is ultimately the Guarantor of it.

  14. BC says:

    Coup attempt #3 just started. Trump needs to end this.

    • Not Tom says:

      Eh? I haven’t seen anything of significance. You mean the Roger Stone prosecution that’s been going on for months?

    • The Cominator says:

      Looks like a countercoup to me… the Justice Department is being cleaned out finally.

      • jim says:

        National Security council being cleaned. DOJ is starting to investigate itself. Devin Nunes is talking measures that would amount to a countercoup. This is likely to explode.

        On February 11th, Trump abruptly took action to take away the power to persecute Trumpists and protect corrupt Democrats by firing four people and withdrawing the nomination of Jessie Liu.

        At the same time, the Department of Justice, which has been steadfastly ignoring Rudi’s evidence on corruption in the Ukraine, has abruptly reversed itself.

        • The Cominator says:

          He needs to clean out the military brass too… especially the ones who command ground troops closest to DC…

          • BC says:

            Trump might have kowed them with his recent moves. Problem with the brass is they need congressional approval.

          • jim says:

            > I don’t know where this idea comes from that the left is suppressing vitamin C research or trying to trick people into taking less.

            I too have looked at the research, and I do not know where the truth lies, but I can see the heavy hand of the official church on the research.

            Maybe the official church is suppressing error and promoting truth in this case, but I have not found its opinions on truth and error reliable.

            • The Cominator says:

              I trust Linus Pauling a real scientist more than the hacks debunking Vitamin C in the modern day…

        • The Cominator says:

          Trump apparently just also tweeted about Tony Podesta (I know I took some epic flak for my partial defense of pizzagate here) yeah something big is in the works…

        • The Cominator says:

          McCabe walks WTF… GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

      • BC says:

        You’re correct. The roger stone crap was pre-planned but only as a parting shot as Trump purges them. Their calls for a special prosecutor are going no where and the public isn’t interested.

  15. A bit offtopic, but Commie cars were mentioned here several times. Anyone interested how a Trabant was made in East Germany? This is from 1990 or later, because the map shows a unified Germany: https://youtu.be/emoF0EFxjjA?t=41

    My favorites are “bringing the crank shaft into the desired tolerance”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emoF0EFxjjA&feature=youtu.be&t=1219 and “coreography for a band-saw” starting at https://youtu.be/emoF0EFxjjA?t=1526

  16. BC says:

    Jim are GDP figures being gamed? People are doing super well economically but GDP numbers appear to be pretty low.

  17. Greg says:

    How will we survive the coming ecological collapse?

    • jim says:

      The ecology is doing great. Name a species that went extinct recently. The planet is not perceptibly warming but it is very perceptibly greening. Lands where the vegetation was so sparse a goat had a hard time when I walked them as a lad are now covered in young forest. Satellites show leaf area has increased by seventy percent, but my eyes go back further than satellite measurements of leaf area.

      • The irony is, Jim, that a great ecology is bad for humans. If you go to an Amazonian rain forest, it is just bursting with life. But much that life wants to kill you, kill your livestock, competes with your livestock for food or competes with the plants your livestock wants to eat. Then you go to Denmark and it is ecologically super boring, at least up in northern part of Jutland where I was. It is just grass and cows and nothing else. But that is great for humans, nothing gets in the way of people wanting to live there and wanting to eat steak.

        • Gret says:

          Yes, Jim, but too hot and we’ll all die. Dubai is not very green, no?

          • jim says:

            At the current rate of temperature rise, in a hundred years the “world” will be three degrees warmer- meaning that Alaska and Siberia will be a lot warmer and Dubai will scarcely change.

            In the tropics, satellites indicate no summer warming.

            The parts of world that suffer from heat more than the suffer from cold are the parts of the world that have a wet season and a dry season, rather than summer and winter. And the wet season is not getting any hotter.

  18. Strannik says:

    As you said Jim;

    ”Predictably, shaking off unjust customs led to shaking of just customs, and now marriage is illegal, whites are second class citizens, and the elite looks and acts gay.”

    However, note also in my quote from Blaise Pascal, that the ”Great” can profit in such times, triumphing over the masses and the original revolutionary ”curious investigators of accepted customs” alike.

    In a Revolution, you find out what people are made of, for good and for evil.

    • jim says:

      We can definitely tell that the communists were evil and the French revolutionaries were evil.

      In the short run, decent people came out on top in the American Revolution, but it was a near thing. What made it work is that each state had its own state religion, and George Washington subscribed to the rather conservative state religion of Virginia, not the state religion of New England, headquartered in Harvard. “No Establishment of Religion” was an effort to stuff the state religion of New England in the bottle.

      The Whigs were an alliance, and George Washington part of the sane portion of that alliance. Which sane portion eventually lost.

      • Strannik says:

        What I am proposing (and this covers recent comments in reply to me by ‘Not Tom’ too) is that while one is enduring the after-effects of the American Revolution as we are, we need not reinvent the wheel. Working within the constrains of the US Constitution for example, one can wind up with a President who is more like the Dutch Stadtholder, a Monarch, and over time, the Right Belief can be established on the State level.

        • Not Tom says:

          Incorrect. The U.S. Constitution has no legal force, and absolutely will not help us end up with a monarch.

          The first president whom history recognizes as a true monarch will have been the one who, like Andrew Jackson before him, realized that law enforcement is a power struggle between the executive and the judiciary, and openly pursued the goal of asserting hard power over the latter. It will be the one who, like all of the Democratic presidents before him, saw the Constitution as a quaint old bit of Whig idealism, and treated it with the same lack of regard that they did, but with emphasis on different aspects, for example ignoring the 19th amendment rather than the 2nd.

          We’re not big fans of legalfags and constitutionfags here.

          • Strannik says:

            I understand that you and some others have separated legitimacy from righteousness because it hurts your head to produce justifications for what you want to do outside of raw naked power, but many people out there still want and expect those justifications, even if it amounts to a ”quaint old bit of Whig idealism” as you call it, on your part to produce such a fig leaf.

            Such people will see some take power as you seem to propose, but they have a reasonable expectation of law and order so that they are secure in their lives and their livelihood, so that the stronger do not prey on the weaker merely because they are stronger.

            That is, if you want stability. Law and Order must be written down, so that people can easily point to it as to Rome’s twelve tablets and say; ”this is my protection, and yours”. Not the barbarism, the despotism, of arbitrary whim.

            • The Cominator says:

              Neoreaction posits that there is basically always a state religion at least unofficially… but at the same time we should not worry too much about the founding myth unless the founding myth contains bluepilled lies that leave future generations at risk of “not getting the joke”.

              So while “In Order to Form a More Perfect Union” was not a problem, “All men are created equal” was a HUGE problem. Hence I think the myth should be kept sort of vague on all points other than that leftists, feminists and muslims are evil and not to be tolerated (and on that it should be explicit)…

              • Strannik says:

                I’m not into utilitarian ”noble lies” which are anything but noble. I’m into Truths not Myths. I just don’t find ”Neoreaction” compelling in that regard any more than the Liberalism of the 18th through the 21st century. For me, all men are created equal in that each person is made in the image and likeness of Almighty God, it doesn’t mean anything more or less than that really, respecting a person as a person not that they’re ”equal” in talents or in eternal destiny.

                Seems to me this ”Neoreaction” is a kind of amalgam of monarchy and right-wing revisionist libertarianism almost, with the spiritual/religious aspect bolted on as something necessary for the masses to restrain them somewhat but not the leadership in private, a governmental ”department of religion” to give a slight halo of goodness over the deeds of the government.

                I just don’t see things that way.

                • The Cominator says:

                  It almost sounds like you are arguing for the so called “rule of law”…

                  Rule of law is a lie to justify rule of lawyers and always was. The old left was fundamentally right when it said there was always a different law for the powerful than for the ordinary person… that is innate to the nature of government that those connected at the highest levels don’t face the same law as us.

                • BC says:

                  I’m not into utilitarian ”noble lies” which are anything but noble. I’m into Truths not Myths.

                  Are you really? Here’s a hard truth: The American founding fathers paid off the debt issued during the American Revolution only after the Congress critters had bought up almost of the debt for pennies on the dollar. The debt had been issued the farmers and merchants in exchange for goods during the war but by then they’d given up on getting their money paid at all. What does that make the founding fathers? Bandits.

                  The Neo-Reactionary analysis of goverment is simple: It is and always has been banditry. Every goverment has been since the dawn of civilization has been a banditry operation.

                  Some bandits like the founding fathers generally kept their robbing pretty limited and worked to grow the country so that their kids and grandkids would have more to rob. That’s a good goverment. A bad goverment is more akin to mobile banditry where everything not nailed down is taken and wealth decrease year after year.

                  Seems to me this ”Neoreaction” is a kind of amalgam of monarchy and right-wing revisionist libertarianism almost, with the spiritual/religious aspect bolted on as something necessary for the masses to restrain them somewhat but not the leadership in private, a governmental ”department of religion” to give a slight halo of goodness over the deeds of the government.

                  You couldn’t be more wrong. Religion is the very basis of civilization. We known that mass religion predates every known civilization and city and that grew up around religious centers. No state religion and soon you’ll have no civilization.

                  Religion by it’s nature is a priesthood conspiring together to tell the public the same thing to ensure their power. Good religions work towards good long term goals and bad ones tend to be short sighted in it’s goals.

                  But religion by itself proved to be a poor vessel for long term stability when the priests are in charge probably due to holiness spirals.

                  The very first king was original an elected General who lead the armies of a Sumerian city state to war. At this time all Sumerian cities were ruled by the priestly class as they had been from their state. He overthrew the priests and installed his daughter as high priestess. From the social tech of kings spread far and wide and soon every city had king ruling it with the state religion supporting the King.

                • R7 Rocket says:

                  @Strannik

                  You’re into truth eh?

                  Let’s see if you can accept the truth about women just as well as Patriarch Kirill I can.

                  Well then, should women be property of their fathers (unmarried)?
                  Should women be property of their husbands when married?
                  If a wife defies her husband’s authority and disrespects him through nagging, should the husband slap her in order to correct her disobedience?
                  Should child support and child protective services be abolished?
                  Should family court judges and divorce lawyers be put in front of a firing squad?

                • You don’t understand it correctly, but it is hard to understand, stick around longer and you will. BTW that department of religion for the Tzar was the Holy Synod. I am around for years and still it seems Jim is one step ahead of me, one step I don’t seem to be able to understand. Let’s go through the steps:

                  1) As BC said, every government ever is a bandit. That isn’t even NRx, that is just Rothbardian libertarianism. NRx is one step ahead of that. And yet, even this first step is hard. Everybody seems to believe from liberals to nationalists that if we would just elect the right guys, all would be well. This is cynical and not many can stomach it. Why? Because every bandit government ever pushed the propaganda that they are not bandits, they are good Christians/patriots/democrats/whatevers. And everybody has fossils of this propaganda in their worldview. But the libertarian still thinks there is a way to stop banditry: just remove government.

                  2) The NRx step is that you cannot remove government. Best case is to live under moderate, well-incentivized, relatively decent bandits. This means there is no way to restore morality, to restore ethics, to have that kind of non-banditry situation that every government promised, that every worldview from Christianity to nationalism to liberalism promised. So it flat out denies what I would call public morality. The average dude is not allowed to be a bandit, hence he must believe banditry is wrong, hence public morality must teach the government is not a bandit.

                  3) So this view is highly cynical but true. I tend to call it taking the conservative pessimism about human nature, like, original sin, sin. One could call it existential horror. To see not only history but all potential futures to fall below of that basic morality every wordlview from Christianity to nationalism to liberalism says, namely that banditry is bad.

                  4) Yet, Jim is all whitepilled about it. He is saying if we are taking human nature realistically no need to be pessimistic. This is the step I cannot really follow. Yes, but every PUBLIC morality, everything churches, ideologues and philosophers ever said contradicts the realistic view of human nature, every public morality disapproves of banditry. My thoughts here at this stage are more in line with Spandrells, that it is important to have a small circle of cynics who see the truth but the public morality cannot be cynical. Public morality has to be based on feel-good tales of the Christian or Confucian kind that no, your government is not a bandit, it is your benevolent fatherly Christian or Confucian ruler who wants the best for you. If public morality is cynical, everybody believes it is morally right for him to try his own tiny local version of banditry. Requires too many police to suppress. So I am feel torn between cynical truth and the necesssarily feel-good public morality that can make a civilization run smoothly. Since everybody believes in the later, it is very hard to not be sucked into it, and from being sucked into it, the truth seems very pessimistic and not at all whitepilled to me.

                • Not Tom says:

                  My thoughts here at this stage are more in line with Spandrells, that it is important to have a small circle of cynics who see the truth but the public morality cannot be cynical.

                  I’m not sure where exactly you differ from Jim on this. Take his statements on homosexuality, for example: the highest echelons of the priesthood need to be aware of its destructive power and have some sort of “in case of buggery, break glass” contingency plan, but the average man on the street shouldn’t even be aware that it exists. Priests cynical, lay naive.

                  Or on patriarchy itself. The priesthood needs to know how depraved women can really be, how some will fuck dogs and horses, and the rest will fuck criminals and lowlives, and all of them will lie and say it was actually Bob the programmer next door who raped them. But the average husband and father should not see his wife as mere inches away from whoredom, ruled by satanic urges and duct-rape rationalizations, but merely as an errant child needing occasional discipline, because society prevents the worst outcomes.

                  The lay can’t be completely stupid, though. The lay can’t be out there glorifying gays, demanding free stuff, fawning over single mommies and generally putting pussy on a pedestal. Priestly elites have to walk a tightrope of guiding the lay away from pure evil, without using relying on heavy-handed cringe propaganda.

                  Like I said in previous posts – eventually some innocent but curious people will ask “why”, and the church needs to have an answer for them beyond “because God said so”. Preferably an answer that is 100% true, both factually and directionally, but still hides the full extent of depravity, for example “women are sexually attracted to masculine men” but not “women are sexually attracted to actual gorillas”.

                • The Cominator says:

                  “I’m not sure where exactly you differ from Jim on this. Take his statements on homosexuality, for example: the highest echelons of the priesthood need to be aware of its destructive power and have some sort of “in case of buggery, break glass” contingency plan, but the average man on the street shouldn’t even be aware that it exists. Priests cynical, lay naive.”

                  I think gays are a poor example here. People were ALWAYS aware the perversion existed but the social convention was to always kind of pretend that it didn’t exist (at least in adult life boys would mock other boys who displayed effeminate tendencies as homos of course) until it was shoved in their face and then if shoved in their face out come the torches and pitchforks.

                  The priesthood should not be in the business of hiding the truth on too many things, the Cathedral is losing power precisely because it is doubling down on too many official lies that people insist are official truths. It CERTAINLY should not hide the truth about women… the only really hidden truth the priesthood needs to conceal is that power is a trick and the priestly legitimacy of the crown is just window dressing for force and propaganda because realizing that power is a trick too many will “abandon the lie” and get the disruptive idea that “chaos is a ladder”. The mass of people need to be kept naive about that… and believe the king’s power is truly endorsed by God.

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMLa4IeFKHM

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxlIraEV8n4

                  Such a great show up until the end too bad it ended so badly…

    • Not Tom says:

      People still believe the vitamin C hype? I thought we got past that in the early aughts.

      Exercise frequently, wash your hands before touching your face or eating, and avoid public places if you’re paranoid. The first will actually boost your immune system, and the last two will prevent exposure.

      Don’t sell snake oil. You’ve even got all the referral and campaign ID tags in there.

      • jim says:

        I don’t know if vitamin C protects, but I do know that power is silencing evidence that it works and manufacturing evidence that it does not work. For a scientist to produce evidence that Vitamin C works is like a scientist producing evidence that warming is slight and fine.

        The trouble is that the religious method, truth by the consensus synods of Bishops, tends to replace the scientific method, and when the synod has come to its consensus, it is a really bad idea to produce scientific data to the contrary. So science is not only unreliable on Global Warming, it is unreliable on everything – the replication crisis.

        • Not Tom says:

          I’m not seeing that at all. There were major studies published, still on the books and not suppressed in any way, showing the supposed benefits of vitamin C. The problem is that these studies were very weak and poorly designed, like the studies on saturated fats, and subsequent studies and meta-analyses showed either no effect or a much smaller effect.

          We’ve seen how the sausage is made with climate “science”. I’ve never seen anything even close to that with vitamin C megadosing. Some amount is necessary, of course, but vitamin deficiencies are an entirely different issue from supra-physiological supplementation.

          We have to distinguish between science that is suppressed and science that just legitimately isn’t there. We know what it looks like when science is suppressed; we see, consistently, papers that purport to show one conclusion but whose data actually show the opposite conclusion. Where are those with the vitamin C studies?

          • jim says:

            > We have to distinguish between science that is suppressed and science that just legitimately isn’t there

            This is harder than you think. I have not researched the vitamin C issue, but I have researched the debunking and it is debunking by authority on command. Likely both sides are behaving badly, as happens in vaccine issue. But that the unofficial side is behaving badly should not grant automatic credit to the official side.

            The scientific method is not to debunk the other guy’s research. It is to do your own experiments, and if your experiments mysteriously produce different results to the other guy’s experiments, then you do experiments to find out the reason for the difference. Which, as in the famous N Ray controversy, is apt to look a lot like debunking, but there is a vital and fundamental difference.

            • Cloudswrest says:

              One thing I’ve read is the Vit C levels in animals that make their own is much higher than in primates. I think it would be an interesting experiment to fix the Vit C pathway in some model primate and see what happens.

        • Theshadowedknight says:

          I find that in all cases I can see, doing the opposite of what the left does while also rejecting their frame is best. They are driven by a psychotic omnicidal urge, so everything that they do is harmful.

      • The Cominator says:

        I suspect Vitamin C does work while i generally dislike sportsball i was socially obliged to watch some of the superbowl and noted during the halftime show that Shakira looked very very young like 21 to a degree makeup couldnt explain… She apparently claims vitamin c is a big part of her regimen.

      • info says:

        What do you think of this guys advice to strengthen immune system:
        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F91E9SoIUHo&feature=emb_title

        Same dude recommended keto for health.

      • Not Tom says:

        Uh huh. Well if the Rogue Fitness guy who says we can all get lean and ripped on one hour a week said so, then it must be true!

        Yeah, I know, he quotes some pubmed studies on things like sepsis and cancer. No idea how accurate those are. Notice how his links for Vitamin C megadosing for colds and other minor respiratory illnesses do NOT point to recent studies, only to other hucksters referencing the same old studies? Yeah, red flag.

        Vitamin C is necessary, like many other nutrients. Like many other nutrients, we may not produce enough of it ourselves and need to get some from our diet. Fruit and vegetables should provide more than enough if your diet doesn’t suck. Supplementing an extra gram or two is probably harmless since it does get excreted very quickly. Beyond that, studies are poor and evidence is scant.

        I don’t know where this idea comes from that the left is suppressing vitamin C research or trying to trick people into taking less. Plenty of people on the left are way into the C megadosing nonsense, and the very post I’m replying to proves that research isn’t being suppressed – there’s tons of it, it’s just mostly very low quality or centered around medical uses that do not even remotely resemble the lay understanding of it (“boosts your immune system!”).

        It’s like the sorry-ass Anabolic Window “research” – increase the sample size and include the most basic of controls, and suddenly the effect disappears.

        • ERTZ says:

          He links studies pro and contra megadosing.
          Expecting a “truth” in the sense to come to a conclusion that it’s bad or good is an oversimplification of the problem at hand, a common thinking error:
          Reality may be so and probably is that megadosing has BOTH positive and negative effects on different health aspects-the optimum may not lie in doing it or not, but perhaps in doing it once per week to reap most benefits and minimize most negative effects.

          Also, people are genetically quite different metabolically – from recombination and mutation in genes, and from different (“trained”-from different environmental/microbiological stimuli) immune system specifics, and different microbiomes and viromes.
          Conclusion: We don’t know for sure in any specific case, we must try; what is a life-improving boon to one can be ineffective or detrimental to another. Every nutritional and pharmacological intervention is a risk, an experiment, because we aren’t anywhere near complete understanding of the complexities underlying reality – all health intervention is actually only try and error, even by the best doctors.

          >I don’t know where this idea comes from that the left is suppressing vitamin C
          >research or trying to trick people into taking less.
          Many of the left, but people generally, consciously and unconsciously, openly or subtly sabotage their social and sexual competition.
          We are all in war with each other for resources, power and reproductive success.
          Giving out bad advice and hiding knowledge that gives a real advantage in that total war is common in all areas of life. Leftists being inferior are especially prone to sabotage; real generosity is almost exclusively found in those that are doing very well; almost everybody else is strongly influenced by envy and status anxiety.

          • Mr.P says:

            For whatever it’s worth — may just be aging but was enduring horrible nighttime cramps in feet and shins.

            Chiro recommended vitamins: potassium, magnesium, calcium, vitamin C, multi.

            No more cramps as long as I take the vitamins daily or once every other day.

            Anecdotal evidence suggests, to me, some goodness derived from taking vitamin supplements.

            • BC says:

              A lack of potassium is generally the cause of muscle cramps. However, you can run out of potassium if you’re not getting enough sodium in your diet(or are sweating too much) because you body will use potassium for the same thing it uses sodium for if you run out.

              • Not Tom says:

                Indeed. Both potassium and magnesium are strongly implicated in different types of cramps. Any good doctor should have covered this during a routine visit, and most doctors would. The “electrolytes” in any decent sports drink also include plenty of potassium because you sweat them out during intense (emphasis on intense) physical activity and drinking a ton of plain water can actually make it worse.

                Not the same as vitamin C megadoses. Many people actually do not get enough potassium in their diets – unless they eat a lot of bananas and prunes. Combined with the totally unnecessary and overblown sodium phobia, it’s actually very easy for many to become seriously deficient.

                I have, however, read in a number of places that magnesium supplementation is not effective – IIRC, something about all the pills containing a form that’s hard to absorb, compared to dietary sources. Bioavailability is an often-overlooked problem with supplements. Shin cramps sounds like a potassium problem, though – magnesium deficiency is implicated more in calf cramps.

                For reference, the potassium RDA for adult men is 3400 mg, and the typically best sources, like a potato with skin or a can of beans, only gets you 600-700 mg. Apparently a half-cup of dried apricots comes out to a whole 1100 mg, which is spectacular if you also enjoy chronic searing flatulence. And it’s still only 1/3 of what you need.

                Careful with calcium supps. Usually the dosage is small enough not to make a big difference, but you can cause hypercalcemia with supplements. It’s very rare, but it happens. Instead of blindly supplementing, you really should get yourself a (free) nutrition app, punch in your meals for a week or so, and find out how much you’re actually intaking. Even if some supps aren’t physically harming you, don’t you care if you’re wasting money?

            • Bob says:

              My experience. Cramps after lifting. Started taking cal, mag, zinc. No more cramps.

              I suspect it was the mag that helped you and I, not the vit c.

              To get further OT, years ago a commenter suggested to take 5x-10x the dose of vit d, since I mentioned I was borderline deficient. So I did, to no effect. Then I tried a brand that was usp certified, at 10x the dose, and wow, I feel way more energetic, optimistic, and my sleep problems went away. The bane of being white…

  19. Strannik says:

    Jim, you posted above that;

    ”jim says:
    2020-02-08 at 23:30

    > “Lord Howe supplied George Washington with gunpowder, and with his brother, General Willaim Howe, set his men up to die. The Howes commanded British forces on land and sea, and coordinated their actions to ensure defeat and the deaths of their men. Should have executed both of them for high treason.”

    Do you know of any good articles on this contention of yours? I have heard something to this effect before long ago, but i’ve never come across anything solid.

      • Strannik says:

        Revolutions are interesting phenomena. Men plan and conspire, chance accidents happen, battles are fought, and when they’re all said and done, one can truly say one has seen the hand of God at work; ”the world turned upside down”. But is the result for good or for evil, ultimately?

        • Not Tom says:

          The fruits of revolution are always rotten and evil, because a revolution is illegitimate power usurping legitimate power. Revolutionary government is always leftist, and always causes an accelerating cycle of more revolution, with the best possible outcome being formalization of the instability by implementing democracy.

          A coup is different. Coups happen when one legitimate faction gets the upper hand on another legitimate faction, generally the aristocracy agreeing to dethrone the king. The result of this can be very bad, but can also be good if it eliminates the factionalism and the new sovereign is reasonably sane.

          • RedBible says:

            Then what is the core difference between an illegitimate faction become and an legitimate faction?

            It appears to me that at least several times in history where what at the time was a “small” “unknown” group, goes and takes over another group, and then probably repeat that again down the road. That approach seems to make decently stable societies, So I question a different question could be “how does power become legitimate?”

            • Strannik says:

              To me, power is legitimate when it serves the common good of everyone in society, regardless of circumstances of birth or wealth or any other private criterion. Legitimacy serves the rule of Law then, the rules that maintain the ability of society to function peacefully. This is then a Republic, from the Latin ”Res Publica”, the ”Common Good”. It requires civic virtue of course, in order to operate.

              • jim says:

                I like power that serves the common good, and this blog is aimed at establishing power that serves the common good.

                But the trouble is that if the priesthood declare that serving the common good is what makes power legitimate, if that is your story of legitimacy, there will be no end of people claiming that they would serve the common good better – some of them, like the commies and the warmists intending to murder large numbers of people and destroy immense amounts of wealth.

                The priesthood, having committed to the serving the common good story, will then tell people that rule of priests serves the common good: Rule of “law”, meaning rule by men in literal robes. Which in practice results in lawless anarcho tyranny.

                We would like to have a story about legitimacy that “results” in power serving the common good. But if our story “is” that legitimacy is what serves the common good, we will be destroyed by each other’s evil.

                • Strannik says:

                  Custom serves to establish anything, and that’s built on the foundations of opinion and imagination, and on Might. It’s as Blaise Pascal once said;

                  ”The art of opposition and of revolution is to unsettle established customs, sounding them even to their source, to point out their want of authority and justice. We must, it is said, get back to the natural and fundamental laws of the State, which an unjust custom has abolished. It is a game certain to result in the loss of all; nothing will be just on the balance. Yet people readily lend their ear to such arguments. They shake off the yoke as soon as they recognise it; and the great profit by their ruin and by that of these curious investigators of accepted customs”

                  I’ll have to rephrase then what I understand as being the ”Common Good”. I am an Orthodox Christian, and so for what might be called ”Political Theology”, I have turned to the Orthodox Father in the West, Blessed Augustine, (and his views on Grace are really the actual accepted doctrine of Orthodoxy since the Council in Trullo reaffirmed the Canons of the Council of Carthage);

                  Augustine basically says that Man’s common good, (man being those who will be saved and those who are unsaved alike), is that which prevents us from exterminating each other in an orgy of looting, rapine, and murder, so that all can have some things, rather than everybody gain nothing and lose everything including our lives. Anarchy and Civil Wars are the worst of evils, save an actual war of conquest and extermination by a foreign invader.

                  This is the foundation of all my political criterions for the establishment of a government over a nation.

                • jim says:

                  Predictably, shaking off unjust customs led to shaking of just customs, and now marriage is illegal, whites are second class citizens, and the elite looks and acts gay.

                • Not Tom says:

                  Legitimacy and righteousness, common or otherwise, have nothing to do with each other.

                  Your position is not substantively different from every demotist argument about consent of the governed. You don’t label it directly as consent, but who is the final arbiter of the common good? It is either the king, the bishops, or the proles, and we’ve seen what happens when you try to put the latter two in charge.

                  We get it bruh, you’re a big fan of Russian Orthodoxy and think everything should be run according to that canon, but this ain’t the orthosphere and that ain’t an answer to the question. You’re telling us how you think a ruler should rule, not what makes them a legitimate ruler. It’s not exactly moralfagging, but it’s pretty close.

                • jim says:

                  Dark Enlightenment reflects on the incentives of the ruler.

                  Democracy provides an incentive for peace and prosperity – but the elite always rules. The elite has decided to elect a new people – unfortunately the new people have a past record of voting for other people’s stuff and for socialism.

                • Not Tom says:

                  My reply was meant for Strannik. I realize now that wasn’t obvious, since it was neither in direct reply to one of his posts nor quoting. Should have quoted.

              • >It requires civic virtue of course, in order to operate.

                That shouldn’t be an afterthought, that is almost the whole problem.

                Hence Montesquieu saying that when you do not have enough civic virtue to run a republic, like England showed around Cromwell’s time they didn’t, a monarchy is better because it requires no civic virtue. It works on the far more reliable status drive instead, that the nobility wants all kinds of ranks and distinctions from the King as the font of honor, and thus they serve the King loyally and through the King they serve the country.

                Of course the big question is if serving the King really does serve the country. IMHO a case can be made that when elites are united and secure, they ipso facto serve the common good. That is, NOT serving the common good is always a case of elite infighting.

                The obvious example for this is China, where even from starting from something as terrible as Maoism AND keeping the same Commie party in power something far better was made, where people can make money and neither the government nor criminals prey on them hard enough to stop them from creating wealth. And I don’t see any other explanation for this than Deng having united the elites and made them secure. So they allow the common man to try to get rich, the Party elites skim a part of it and spend it on having 12 girlfriends. And starting from something as terrible a Maoism is really playing the game on hard mode, the results are still going to be kinda mixed. Starting from a Christian monarchy should be a lot easier and better.

                • The Cominator says:

                  Republics never work for large countries either. Large countries have no sense of the common good because California and Idaho have little in common. Large states with diversity and women voters… nigga plz.

                  Venice which remained essentially a city state was the longest lasting Republic in history.

                • @The Cominator

                  Heh, Montesquieu has a story of a very small republic as the best possible example of a republic ran well. In which they hold a gathering of everybody once a year, and all the young men are ranked from first to last based on how useful they were to the common good. And the one ranked first gets to choose a wife from the unmarried girls first, the second chooses second etc. Presumably the ones ranked lower if they do not want an ugly wife they just try to work harder on the common good next year.

                • BTW the reason I like mentioning Montesquieu, the dude who came up with the disastrous idea of the separation of branches and of course was all “muh rule of law”, is that while he was a huge liberal in that age, it is interesting to see how many ideas that today are considered reactionary he had. Because those were simply the common normal ideas of the age and he only challenged a few of them, accepted the rest. So it sort of illustrates just how normal and obvious they were for even a liberal of that age.

              • Not sure that civic virtue is real. Might look like virtue through the fog of history, but it might have been the simple fact that the ruling class had more to gain from cooperation than infighting. When Rome was surrounded by enemies, its Senate was virtuous and cooperated incredibly well. Look how fast that fell apart once external conquest became difficult, and suddenly there was a great need for Caesar.

                Same with the Founders. There was a frontier to conquer and a lot to do besides.

            • Not Tom says:

              I don’t believe there is a sharp dividing line between legitimate and illegitimate power, just as there is no sharp dividing line between alpha and beta, or between white (race) and non-white. However, the categories still exist, they are significant, and in most cases it is relatively clear which category someone belongs to.

              “What makes power legitimate?” is the one question that every political ideology (or political formula) is trying to answer. The democratic frame is that “the people” must consent. The reactionary frame is that the elites must consent. The reactionary frame is more clearly in evidence; for example, Trump’s ability to govern effectively has been largely dictated by the number of elites on his side at any given moment.

              Elites can be brought on side by persuasion or by force, I don’t think it really matters as long as the power is secure. If all the elites love their sovereign, or are simply way too terrified to organize against him, power looks legitimate.

              The inquisitive might point out that this kicks the can down the road, and we then have to define what “elite” means, but I think you’ll find that most people agree on who the elites are, regardless of personal politics.

            • jim says:

              Power is legitimate because it is legitimate, as money is money because it is money.

              Trouble is that if power is up for grabs, much grabbing will ensue, so you need a story about legitimacy that limits the grabbing.

  20. Anonymous says:

    Questions off topic to the parent post. Would I and other non-elites be better off ruled by warriors instead of priests? If so, why? Yes, when the priestly class is in charge, there’s the possibility that things will end in a catastrophic holiness spiral that kills me and the other millions of non-elites. But when the warrior class is in charge, what’s to stop them from killing me and taking my stuff? Cooperating internally to do that kind of thing is how they ever get to be in charge in the first place. Whereas on the other hand, most of the time all priests do is nag me about what I should do and how I should think. Our current priesthood directs non-elites in evil ways, but a different priesthood could just direct non-elites in good ways instead.

    Is the idea that it is a sure thing that a holiness spiral will eventually happen when priests are in charge, even with a good priesthood?

    • jim says:

      > Would I and other non-elites be better off ruled by warriors instead of priests? If so, why?

      If priests have too much power, they are apt to get trapped in a holiness spiral, which generally winds up destroying their society and their people.

      Perhaps rule by sane priesthood is better than rule by sane warriors, but that is not what we have now. Since 1820 we have been moving ever lefter ever faster.

      Maybe the right religious order can stop priests from holiness spiraling, but the usual historical solution is that warriors thump the crazies.

      The biggest problem is that holiness spiralling on sex has resulted in a society with dysgenic fertility and below replacement fertility. People are not getting sex, and they are not getting grandchildren.

      • The Cominator says:

        Priestly rule has only ever worked for the Chinese really… I fail to see it ever working for whites historically

      • Anonymous Fake says:

        What “religious order” do you suppose is controlling things? The Unitarians?

        • jim says:

          Harvard. The Unitarians were holier than Jesus, but were rapidly outflanked on the left by those holier than God.

          Harvard was founded by state priests expelled from the state Church of England, and was the Vatican of the state church of New England.

          When it conquered America in Mormon war and the civil war, it proclaimed itself to not be a religious organization in order to comply with the letter, but not the substance, of the first amendment.

    • JanMartense says:

      Would I and other non-elites be better off ruled by warriors instead of priests? If so, why?

      Rule entirely by warriors is bad too; ideally you need a balance. The priestly caste supplies moral standards which limit the warriors’ (and craftsmans’, for that matter) ability to commit violence on their own people. Meanwhile the warriors not only protect the other groups, but impose limits on the impractical tendencies (i.e. holiness spiraling) of the priesthood. Rule by priests without warriors gets you the Reign of Terror, but rule by warriors without priests gets you Attila the Hun. It can also result in decadence as warriors ignore the pursuit of virtue. This balance is why medieval and Renaissance Europe was so successful and relatively socially stable. Republican Rome (which was really quite aristocratic) is another decent example.

      The caveat: if the particular religion espoused by the priesthood is already an insanely-spiraled Satanic death cult, even Attila the Hun is preferable to restore sanity by force.

    • Not Tom says:

      Warrior rule does not imply exclusive warrior rule, it means there is a hierarchy with warriors on top.

      But when the warrior class is in charge, what’s to stop them from killing me and taking my stuff?

      It doesn’t scale. In order to take people’s stuff, they need to have stuff to take. To have stuff to take, they need to produce stuff. To produce stuff, they need to cooperate, and to cooperate, they need a state religion.

      Hence, ruling warriors tend to recognize the need to delegate most of those responsibilities to priests. At the very minimum, they will create some kind of legal code and expect the lesser warriors to follow it. Even literal pirates did this; search “pirate law” for details. And any code of laws is essentially a primitive priesthood and will eventually become a full priesthood.

      Very dumb warriors may fail to understand the scale problem, and we see this in low-IQ countries that are essentially run by warlords. I don’t know the solution for low-IQ peoples other than to either put foreigners in charge (colonialism) or hope that some sort of eugenic fertility raises their IQ over time, which it might, if the west weren’t constantly trying to “help” them by giving them free stuff and sucking up their best and brightest for near-zero marginal utility. But in general, the situation is going to be pretty grim for Somalia unless someone much smarter comes in to run things.

      But that’s not generally an issue with European-descended peoples, in which dumb warriors generally do not get to rule, because white men are prone to infighting, and remaining in power requires wit.

      What you want is rule by what Jim calls “stationary bandits”. If the king lives a thousand miles away, or even a hundred miles away, it’s just not efficient for him to personally come to your home, kill you and take your stuff. Will he send other people to take your stuff? Yes, they’re called tax collectors.

      • jim says:

        > Very dumb warriors may fail to understand the scale problem

        Note the would-be warrior Viking.

        The judiciary is inherently priestly. Thus to keep them under control, need a system similar to William the Conqueror’s writs, where the warrior sovereign is the supreme judge, can overrule a judge from the saddle of his horse, and if judges get too creative in interpreting the King’s writs, can damn well tell them what the King’s writs mean.

        This can result in sovereign lawlessness, as for example William the Second, but William the First and Henry the first were the foundation of English common law. The Sovereign, if he claims backing by God, needs to decide law in a manner that makes this not altogether implausible.

      • > I don’t know the solution for low-IQ peoples other than to either put foreigners in charge (colonialism) or hope that some sort of eugenic fertility raises their IQ over time,

        It was a big mistake to turn them into nations instead of leaving them as tribes. Everybody in their national governments feels it is their sacred duty to steal from the nation and give it to their tribe. I am not being facetious. It is the same sacred duty as defending your country. Except that their country is not the nation, but the tribe. For them being loyal to the nation is about as inconceivable or more as for us to be loyal to the United Nations.

        Hence, they should be reorganized as a very loose confederation of very independent tribes. The confederation, intertribal council provides a forum to have a bit of talk with each other as that might help prevent wars and does nothing else.

    • >Would I and other non-elites be better off ruled by warriors instead of priest?

      Beyond what others said I see two things I like in warriors. First, their tendency to call bluffs. When the intellectuals go on these spirals, there are three genders, no, ten, no, one hundred, no, infinite! I think what they are doing is like a bluff war in poker. Neither has a good hand – neither position is backed by reality – they are just raising the bets to see who folds first. I think it is very much like that poker game when you have a crap hand but keep bluffing and hoping the rest of the players will chicken out first. And I think warriors have a certain tendency to call bluffs in the “Just how many divisions the Pope have?” sense.

      The second is that the warrior aristocrats and common can bond on the shared common sense of masculinity. I mean, priests should be masculine too, that is why they should marry, but still they are sort of different. Ultimately the common soldier and construction worker, and also the warrior-aristocrat, makes his living through his mascuclinity in ways that priests and intellectuals just don’t really do so. When Frederick the Great told the hesitating Guards “Rascals, you want to live forever?” that was not courtly language, that was locker-room slang, the language of the common man. He in that sentence nearly talked like an equal. There is this kind of bond between fighting men of very different ranks. Cue Schumpeter on “The stock exchange is a poor replacement for the Holy Grail.” He was talking about why capitalism needs a strong aristocratic element. The common man does not really like following the orders of a soft fat capitalist, nor those of an an overly nerdy intellectual engineer. So they have to be backed by high-T warrior aristocrats to be obeyed. But the flip side is that said high-T warrior aristocrats are also going to control the behavior of soft fat capitalits and overly nerdy engineers, they make them behave in a way that is compatibly with the simple but manly behavior and attitude of the common man. For example, not letting them finding excuses for going back on their promises.

      • Some thoughts on this blufff-calling nature of warriors. The classic sociobiological understanding of status, as prestige vs. dominance. Prestige or respect boiling down to asking people to do something and they want to do it for you out of respect, dominance to being able to force people to do what you want by threatening violence. This maps to priests vs. warriors and also to the modern terms of soft power and hard power. And they can be converted to each other. Someone very respected can call crusade and then men will enlist to want to fight for him and thus the one with soft power gets hard power. I think it also works the other way around too. So what Stalin was saying is that if the Pope would call for an Anti-Communist crusade, how many divisions would spring up? Enough to defeat the Red Army? So my point about calling bluffs is this challenge to convert your soft power to hard power, prestige to force, call upon all those who respect you, do battle and decide empirically who is the bigger one. The bluff-calling aspect is that those who only pretend to be prestigious, pretend to be high status, would not be able to call upon a lot of men to fight and die for them.

        In modern terms, Greta fans say we are causing human extinction and we think they want to destroy our way of living and instill a global communist dictatorship over the economy. So the warrior says, let’s meet at a pitched battle somewhere. How many Greta fans would be dying for her words as opposed to just virtue-signalling as long as it is cheap but once it is risky and costly they would reveal a preference that they are not really meaning it seriously? How many on our side?

        This is the bluff-calling aspect of warriors. People keep saying the fashionable virtuous prestigious thing and pretending to follow prestigious leaders and warriors tell them either show a revealed preference that you mean it so seriously you would fight and die for it, or shut up.

        I was born slightly behind the Iron Curtain. There was an ironic story written by a dissenting writer that Che Guevara calls for Communist volunteers all over the world, comes here to recruit, and tens of thousands show up and make a public oath, and then each of them finds an excuse like showing some doctors papers for not actually enlisting and Che leaves with only one grumpy old veteran with a backpack full of cigarettes who keeps arguing with him about everything.

  21. New and new critics of capitalism are cropping up in the comments here. And I have an idea. Let’s make a clear difference. We want Capitalism-With-Aristocracy, call it CWA. What was happening in the last X centuries is Capitalism-Without-Aristocracy, CWOA, plus socialism.

    CWOA means a system where the demand society presents to capitalists come from the masses, the mass marketplace, people who have no taste. Hence artists suffer, they have produce popular shit to make a living. The classic case of underground bands vs. sellouts. While people are far better at choosing for themselves on the mass marketplace than choosing for everybody else in democracy, the fact is still that CWOA cannot escape the problem that its demand-generator is the lowbrow lower-class person with all his failings. Not just taste, other things that were mentioned here like preferring carby food also in play.

    In CWOA, people of finer tastes or just more imagination than the low-class low-brow consumers have no recourse but to apply to the state, to demand a kind of socialism, to hope that the state will sponsor them producing the kind of things the masses have no interest in buying.

    While the CWA we would like to restore aristocrats mean an entirely different source of demand for capitalists. They act as sponsors for artists who can afford to make quality stuff and get paid for it, because the aristocrats compete for status showing off their artist pets to each other. If you look at all the masterpieces from the past we admire, from buildings to jewelry or beautiful swords, they were made by capitalists for the purchase of aristocrats (and kings and high priests). THIS is the reason the past looks so aesthetically glorious – this source of demand! In CWA anyone who has different, loftier, more tasteful or just more imaginative ideas than the masses can try to sell it to the aristocrats – the nature of the thing is that only one or a few clients suffice to make a living.

    To *some* extent it is happening, the Harvard-Washington class are sort of acting like aristocrats who are actually sponsoring abstract artists and get into all kinds of fad diets – they definitely mean a different, not mass-market source of demand for entrepreneurs. But they are simply bad aristocrats. Partially because they are priests, not aristocrats. Partially because Leftism does not simply destroy, it also tends to create sick, zombie parodies of the things they destroy.

    So I think at least some people who criticize capitalism from the right do so because capitalism without aristocrats tends to be dominated by the mass market hence the mass man. It is “too democratic”. But capitalism with aristocrats, with aristocrats creating and entirely different kind of demand for capitalists to fill is very different and we want that.

    • The Cominator says:

      “To *some* extent it is happening, the Harvard-Washington class are sort of acting like aristocrats”

      Real aristocracy has to be warrior in nature not priest in nature, there has to be a culture that at least one of the boys each generation will be a career officer or if long peace some kind of adventurer (we need space for this alone) and I mean as far as officers one who is potentially at least as a juniour officer exposed to enemy fire not a clerk.

      Modern art is degenerate CIA trash.

      • info says:

        In the past the Steppe served as the earth’s version of space. A high mobile and adventurous lifestyle.

        An environment that seems to have supplied elites like the Indo-European men who took over Western Europe and ruled places as far as India.

        And supplied the Elites that founded the Persian Empire.

        As well as elites of the middle east. Serving to revitalize civilization by their energy

    • jim says:

      I want a system resembling that of England from 1660 to 1800, which gave us industry, science, technology, empire, above replacement fertility, and eugenic fertility.

      • Pooch says:

        And why 1660-1800 England and not America 1776-1960.

        • jim says:

          Because 1660 was recovery from a holiness spiral, while 1776 was the start of one.

          Because 1663 was the Royal Society, and first appearance of Ayn Rand’s engineer CEO, using other people’s labor and other people’s capital to advance technology and make it widely available.

          Because Science and technology in 1776-1960 America was running on the social capital created in seventeenth century England.

          Because the time of democracy is ending, and 1660-1820 was power in the hands of Kings and aristocrats. We are now in a time that parallels the fall of the Roman Republic. To try to do 1776 again is to go against the normal cycles of history. To try to do 1660 again is to go with the flow. Democracy is generally short lived, and you wind up Caesar again.

          • Pooch says:

            Is there a difference between 1660-1800 England and the Roman Empire (Post republic)? Emperor seems more fitting then a king in this case if the only difference is their should never ever be a queen under any circumstance. Female rule is not red pilled. Also I remember you saying fathers had more authority over their family during 1660-1800 England.

            It would be wise to not completely ignore 1776 however. The lesson there to me is rule by a king does not scale indefinitely. At some point, one King’s kingdom ends and another begins if expansion is to be the ultimate goal.

            • Samuel Skinner says:

              The Roman Empire had difficulty solving the issue of civil wars.

              The lesson of the American Revolution is having your political factions sabotage the military leads to defeat and you need to not have political factions destroying your society.

            • Not Tom says:

              That’s the lesson you get from 1776? Not that a certain Whig monarch let holiness-spiraled New England Puritans take complete control of a new, mostly empty and immensely profitable frontier, and only made a ham-fisted attempt to intervene when it was already far too late?

              1776 didn’t just happen out of the blue. It could not have happened within England’s borders. It required a wide-open frontier and criminal neglect of the settler colonies.

              • Pooch says:

                What could he have done differently?

                • jim says:

                  King George III should have executed Lord Howe for treason and murder.

                  That would have ended the American rebellion in short order.

                • The Cominator says:

                  Doubt killing Lord Howe would have worked. He was the naval commander not the land commander (killing and it wasn’t so easy to blockade the whole American coast AND fight the French at the same time. Even if he was being deliberately ineffective with the blockade it probably wouldn’t have made much difference.

                  Killing Burgoyne and Cornwalis might have worked.

                • jim says:

                  Lord Howe supplied George Washington with gunpowder, and with his brother, General Willaim Howe, set his men up to die. The Howes commanded British forces on land and sea, and coordinated their actions to ensure defeat and the deaths of their men. Should have executed both of them for high treason.

                • The Cominator says:

                  Do you have a source on all this particularly the gunpowder claim… Burgoyne seems to have a far more unmixed record of failure than either Howe. Im not convinced they were traitors.

                  If there was a traitor id pin it on him 1st. For admiral Howe you also have to keep in mind that the admiralty’s prime objective was to destroy the French fleet the blockade was secondary to that.

                • Pooch says:

                  So it was the Puritans that influenced Thomas Jefferson’s hand to write “All men are created equal” and not the Enlightenment thinkers (Locke, etc)?

                • Jan Martense says:

                  So it was the Puritans that influenced Thomas Jefferson’s hand to write “All men are created equal” and not the Enlightenment thinkers (Locke, etc)?

                  The Puritans and the English “Enlightenment figures” were one and the same. Locke was a devout Puritan, both of his parents were Puritans, his father served as a Roundhead commander in the Civil War, and he tried to emulate his father’s Regicidal tendencies in the 1683 Rye House plot.

                  Yes, Jefferson some other founders were “Deists” rather than Puritans. But Deism is simply a further holiness-spiraled form of Calvinism. Piotr Gonesius, the first non-trinitarian religious leader after the Reformation in Europe, directly split off from Calvin.

                • alf says:

                  Locke was a devout Puritan, both of his parents were Puritans

                  Did not know that.

              • The Cominator says:

                George III hated the whigs other than (rightly) agreeing with them on the issue of Catholicism.

            • Just appoint a viceroy.

          • Pooch says:

            The Enlightenment smashed a giant hole into divine kingly rule. Simply going back to the Christianity of 1660 England does nothing to falsify John Locke and Voltaire. Whatever the new religion is, needs to obliterate “All men are created equal” as the enlightenment did to the system before it.

            • The Cominator says:

              Locke was a lunatic and Voltaire was a clown (who until the end did not pretend to be much more than a clown).

              Under my system people who say that all men are created equal would have a marked tendency to disappear in the middle of the night without a trace to never be heard from again with no information given on them (alla the Night and Fog system).

            • Bob says:

              Sounds like the job of a state priesthood, backing warriors. The current priesthood is why equality is believed and is the reason citing the FBI crime stats is censored. Maybe it’s a coup complete solution, but an official state priesthood has reality on its side.

            • Not Tom says:

              Have you ever read John Locke, not just the “good parts” in isolation but in its entirety, especially his debates with Tories?

              He doesn’t need to be “falsified”, he used exactly the same tactics that progressives use today: motte and bailey, moving the goalposts, stating opinions as accepted facts, etc. He didn’t have very good arguments, he was just a good rhetorician.

              And Voltaire – yeah, clown is exactly the right word.

            • alf says:

              We worship Gnon, which is about as close to true science worship as one can get.

          • Pooch says:

            Wasn’t 1660-1800 England parliamentary monarchy? Which means Whigs and Tories? How does recreating that system just not end up in democracy again? How do we know the advances in tech during that time weren’t running off the social capital of the centuries before it just like you say America was? Doesn’t pass the smell test. Why does Moldbug propose the creation of an antiversity instead of restoring the Stuart monarchy like you propose?

            • Not Tom says:

              How do we know the advances in tech during that time weren’t running off the social capital of the centuries before it just like you say America was?

              Since technology is always advancing, and our hypothesis is that technology is a secondary mover, ignore the first-order derivative and look at the second-order derivative. A proxy that Jim likes to use is road development. Easily-digestible historical data is scarce, but it exists. Note how road development was humming along until the 18th century, and then seemed to abruptly fall off.

              (Caveat: I’m not sure when that map was drawn, but scroll down to the “Later roads” section and it doesn’t seem like much has changed.)

              Since fertility is not always advancing, and our hypothesis is that it is the prime mover, look at the first-order derivative. According to World Atlas, TFR crashed from almost 5 down to 1.5 since 1800. What about before 1800? According to a paper titled The Demography of Victorian England and Wales, TFR was rising fairly steadily from 1550 to about 1675, peaking near 5, and then declined steadily aside from a very brief “baby boom” spike around 1725. The downtrend since 1775 is wholly uninterrupted.

              Even mortality, which almost always goes down over time due to medical advances, had taken a huge upward spike in the late 18th, and didn’t recover back to historical levels until around 1900. It’s not because of war, either; wars cause brief spikes in mortality, not sudden long-term reversals of the trend.

              All data sets converge on a slow but accelerating decline starting in the middle of the 18th century, give or take 30 years. And if that doesn’t pass your “smell test”, you’d better go have your nose checked out by a good physician.

              • Pooch says:

                What about American data? I’m going to go out on a limb and say you are a Brit.

                • Not Tom says:

                  No? The conversation was about England so I pulled up data on England. Now you want to change the subject and are blaming me for it?

                • Pooch says:

                  I do appreciate the data and it is convincing this was the peak of the British empire in a variety of metrics.

                  However, Jim’s claim is that for essentially the entirety of US history it was running off of 17th century English social capital. If that was the case, wouldn’t we see the exact same pattern of declining everything from basically the American Revolution onward?

              • ” Note how road development was humming along until the 18th century, and then seemed to abruptly fall off.”

                But how many roads does a country need? It is a classical marginal utility thing, you build the most important roads first and then the less important ones and at some point building and maintaining a road to some remote farm costs more than the benefit it brings, so you don’t.

                And for moving heavy stuff, first they dug canals, later on built railroads.

                How about shipping, expressed in tonnage, as a proxy?

                • Not Tom says:

                  I’m starting to see why shaman ragequit. Spend a half hour researching some question because it seems interesting and important to address what originally sounded like honest skepticism, and what do you get in response? Inanity – deflection, speculation, changing the subject, moving the goalposts, escalating demands for evidence that is harder and harder to obtain.

                  Move to a populated area some time and take a drive during rush hour. Do you think that America, or the UK, has enough roads to support a highly mobile population at a high level of productivity? If so, why are people literally building helicopter pads and risking death to escape the traffic?

                  But I am not going to engage further with people who respond this way to hard evidence. If you think it’s contradicted by some other, better evidence, go find it yourself. If you think the available evidence fits some larger pattern that makes it unsuitable to answer the question, prove it. This constant whataboutism just wastes everyone’s time.

                • alf says:

                  Lol welcome to the internet.

                  If it makes you feel any better I screenshotted the 1550-2000 English tfr. Data on Dutch tfr from before world war two is hard to come by.

                • jim says:

                  If you visit a poor country and a rich country, or look at it from Google Earth, richer country, more roads.

                  They max out within the city, but they do not max out in the countryside.

            • jim says:

              Anglicans kept getting non Anglican monarchs, who let hostile entryists into the Church.

              Holiness spiral ensued, resulting in the Whigs moving left, coming to resemble the puritans that Cromwell suppressed.

              The big struggle was “occasional conformity”

              These problems would not have happened had they just stuck to their guns and not let anyone hostile to the the state religion (occasional conformist) into parliament. (Or any other state or quasi state office.)

              • The Cominator says:

                OTOH I don’t want to get up every Sunday morning to listen to some phony in a robe and neither do you (that kind of mindless repetitive annoying conformity is for women). Banning occasional conformity would mean that people would indeed have to do this lest they be labeled dissenters and promptly would have nearly all men becoming dissenters and the whole system collapsing.

                There has to be a better way.

                • jim says:

                  The problem was never the insufficiently holy but the excessively holy.

                  The problem with “occasional conformists” was not that they were skipping church to drink and fornicate, but that they were skipping church to attend a hostile church.

                  We need to ask people “are you, or have you ever been, a member of …”

                • The Cominator says:

                  Yes that is fair.

                • kawaii_kike says:

                  But a neoreactionary priest wouldn’t be a phony, every Sunday would basically be a different sermon from Jim.

              • Pooch says:

                So to be clear, you are advocating a constitutional parlimentary monarchy? Isn’t that in direction contradiction of Neoreaction’s goal of Absolute Monarchy?

                • jim says:

                  Nuts

                  Not at all what I am advocating.

                  Charles the Second was divine right.

                  William of Orange was an ambiguous and contested settlement that slowly got re-interpreted by entryists into constitutional monarchy. But divine right was still live when King George IV successfully asserted it, throwing whigs and whig historians into George Derangement syndrome that persists to this day.

                  The whole women-can-do no wrong program is in large part an attack on George IV that continues to this day.

      • Capitalism-with-aristocracy sounds like something that could produce science, with capitalists financing the kind of research that can be turned into products fairly quickly and aristocracts financing the one that cannot.

        A word of caution, though. One thing that makes it hard to “turn black the clock” to 1700 is, for example, I was looking into the history of health insurance, where this whole public vs. private, universal vs. not healthcare debate was coming from. And the surprising result I found that in say 1900 or so health care itself was so cheap – because it could do so little – that the insurance was primarily about covering the wage the worker is not earning while ill. Otherwise it was bed rest at home, with an occasional visit from a doc who when seeing the patient is poor was usually decent enough to charge little – the healthcare itself was not expensive at all. Today they want to do a computer tomograph for every minor thing. So the costs can go up easily.

        So I see potentially something similar in science. The cost of experiments keeps going up – it should, the normal progression of everything is that the low-hanging fruits are harvested and then one needs taller and taller ladders. So it might be hard for this reason to draw a parallel between science now and science then.

        Jim, was there such a thing as an expensive scientific experiment around 1700? Like, requiring hundreds of workers to build stuff? If yes, who paid for it?

        • jim says:

          Magellan’s voyage was an expensive scientific experiment, and the King paid for it. But the government did not build those ships or train those sailors.

          The private sector is paying for the development of Musk’s rockets, in that the private sector is paying for Starlink, but settling Mars is likely to be government funded.

        • The vast majority of modern health care is bed rest and cheap antibiotics, and no reason surgery should be more expensive than it is at the vet’s. The vet is a deregulated healthcare system, and it’s a bit pricey, but not absurdly out of people’s reach.

          They want to do scans and tests for every little thing because they are billing an insurance company for it. Using insurance for routine care is like using flood insurance to pay for a new rug when you spill a cup of coffee on it. If everybody did that, rug salesmen would jack up their prices. Insurance is a big part of the problem.

          • Not Tom says:

            They want to do scans and tests for every little thing because they are billing an insurance company for it.

            Also because if they miss anything that they could conceivably have tested for, even if literally none of the signs are pointing in that direction, they’re likely to get sued for astronomical amounts. Thought those headaches were stress- and sleep-related migraines, but turned out to be Autosomal Dominant Porencephaly Type I? Malpractice!

            Whenever something nominally private seems to be absurdly overpriced, you can bet your left nut that lawyers are involved.

            • Steve Johnson says:

              This is an overstated libertarian idea; doctors are pretty well insulated from being sued successfully because all they’re obligated to provide is the “standard of care”.

              If the standard of care is to scan in this case, scan (and bill); if it’s not then they won’t and aren’t legally liable (but of course a jury can do anything).

              The missing dimension is the racial anarcho-tyranny. When you’re dealing with whites, juries don’t give them money against the law; when you’re dealing with a black patient and have a black jury – ghetto lottery. This is minor compared to the rest of the racial anarcho-tyranny in medicine where whites get massively overcharged as a routine out of both racial animus as well as because the collection tools that medical providers have are asymmetrical and only work on productive citizens (if you have no assets, who cares about a judgement? if you have bad credit already, who cares about a hit to the credit rating). The insurance companies work to reinforce this by using their power not to push for transparent billing but to push for opaque billing that requires insurance company protection to deal with.

              • The Cominator says:

                Absolute nonsense, doctors get sued all the time are in most states required to carry ruinously expensive malpractice insurance and the lawyers generally wouldnt bother with them if they didnt have it.

                Ghetto lottery is real sure but even with whites if the patient is sympathetic and a sole provider for a family jury can award them big.

              • jim says:

                I have observed no end of utterly frivolous cases against doctors that result in someone, frequently black or on welfare, getting a big lottery win.

                Lawyers and judges hate doctors and like to harm them, because they are competitive priest group.

                • Steve Johnson says:

                  Yes, ghetto lottery exists in all parts of the tort system because ultimately cases get decided by juries if they go far enough.

                  Doctors though, have some abisayya and have protections from lawsuit that don’t exist for others – you can’t sue a doctor without getting another doctor to testify against him and medical malpractice insurance includes payment for legal representation for the doctor all the way through trial – the insurance company can’t assess the case and their client to settle.

                  The point though, is that the libertarian line about malpractice being the threat that forces extra tests and extra costs is only partly true and obscures the major problem which is that the medical system as a whole is a giant wealth transfer from whites to progressive vote banks.

                • The Cominator says:

                  Bullshit the malpractice insurance company (in mass there was only ONE unless you worked for Mass General Harvard’s pet hospital) can make you settle.

                • Not Tom says:

                  Yeah, I have firsthand knowledge of how doctors can be ruined by frivolous lawsuits, even with the malpractice insurance they are all forced to carry.

                  Maybe it’s only mildly bad for the average GP or FP, but you should see how bad it is for surgeons. A surgeon can do everything right and still lose the patient. Because the payout of a suit can be so high (not to mention, emotions running hot), there’s a massive incentive for someone else in the system to support a malpractice claim for kickbacks. You’d think they’d suffer consequences for such a defection, and maybe they would, but they still get to keep their medical license – and if they get kicked out of the hospital or practice, then even more incentive to get into the malpractice racket.

                  If you wonder why surgeons get such exorbitant salaries, it’s not just because of their specialized skill (although that is certainly a big part of it), a lot of it is literally hazard pay.

                  It’s very bad. I’m not sure exactly where we “should” be on the line between “caveat emptor” and “it’s always the doctor’s fault”, but right now the pendulum has swung way too far toward the latter.

  22. Pooch says:

    The one thing I do agree with is that the West did turn into a bunch of faggots when it stopped conquering. Too much peace causes faggotry.

  23. Theshadowedknight says:

    CNN is reporting that Vindman and Sondland are out. GE Trump is purging his enemies, at least the ones in the open.

    • BC says:

      More importantly the Democrats are talking about Trump being a dictator and is about to arrest people. The purges may indeed happen shortly.

      Deus Vault!

      • The Cominator says:

        Apparently HUnter Biden’s money has been suponead… since he was no doubt kicking up to higher up Democrats that is something.

  24. NH voter says:

    Long-time reader, semi-regular commenter, and registered New Hampshire voter here. Not planning to vote in next Tuesday’s primary, but was wondering if you guys had any suggestions. Should I vote to Bern it all down?

    • Anonymous Fake says:

      Bernie is the only non-establishment Democrat with a serious ground game. Trump lacked a ground game that could lend itself towards a new civil service, appointees etc. Organic, grassroots support in the most important labor markets (ie, not the internet trolls) is where reform is possible.

      • jim says:

        Which means Bernie could easily implement a socialist hellhole complete with gulags, because he has plenty of people to do it, while Trump has one hell of a problem building the wall or arresting criminals who use illegal means to attempt to overthrow him. Trump has, as he frequently complains, wound up appointing no end of enemies who worked against him and his objectives.

    • JanMartense says:

      What you should really do if you’re feeling gutsy is report “voting irregularities” to the Sanders campaign. Say you saw a suspicious looking man in a beanie and a Butt shirt fiddling with the machine.

  25. Anonymous Fake says:

    > “There are a pile of regulations concocted to stop makework government jobs from being “shovel ready” The government can only produce makework jobs that are Democratic Party Union ready.”

    European works of high infrastructure like the autobahn or high speed rail disagree. Private economies in the modern West, on the other hand, are mostly based on people suing each other, selling each other insurance, and real estate speculation. Sometimes even doing each other’s laundry and cooking. Producing things of value is for either governments or the colonies.

    • jim says:

      Have Europeans built any nice autobahn’s recently?

      Europeans have the same problem of soaring costs and reduced quality in the production of infrastructure as the American bicoastal megalopoli, and the closer to Harvard, the worse the problem.

      • Anonymous Fake says:

        Europeans haven’t built much of anything recently because they accepted the neoliberal poz and are in a demographic collapse. Rich horny billionaires motivated by lust to make more money eventually corrupt the culture and it simply takes too long for the masses to figure out that their initial prosperity creation is either spent or illusory, just numbers on bank accounts that don’t mean anything.

        A return to respect for religion, or at least nature, would fix Europe, but economic leftism wouldn’t hurt. Taxing the horny coked up capitalist who works 100 hours a week for a fatter bank account, at the expense of economic reality for the bottom 99%, would go a long way, even before any real infrastructure gets planned out.

        The problem with taxes, of course, is the fear of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. The reality the right has to learn to accept here, is that *there are certain apple carts that deserve to be turned over*. All too often you find out there were no real apples in them, just fake apples for display, but better to learn this sooner than later.

        For what it’s worth, I live in a red state and anecdotally I have never seen the speed limit ever increased due to improvements in the quality of roads. Low taxes mean rich horny billionaires who pollute the culture, shoddy infrastructure, and low quality human capital that appreciates a tax rate designed for a marginal quality of life.

        But family demands I stand and fight where I am.

        • jim says:

          France and Sweden are already taxing capitalists to the wazoo. How is that working out for them?

          Notice what happened when Trump cut corporate taxes. The money immediately flowed through to people who work, in bonuses, increased hiring, and increased capital formation.

          If cultural decay was caused by horny capitalists, how come Human Resources is terrorizing them with bogus sexual harassment cases?

          • Anonymous Fake says:

            The lower-tier eunuch/drone/cuck man gets grilled by HR so the capitalist elite men have more women for themselves. The rules don’t apply to the boss.

            The need for wealth to trickle down instead of sitting in zero-velocity accounts for the elites, and creating negative utility for the everyone else and ultimately the entire set of the economy, is taken for granted to some extent. The right thinks lower taxes create a trickle down, while the left thinks high taxes and then government action throws the wealth down faster.

            You can already see the trick. The right and left waste too much time arguing tactics and the wealth goes nowhere. It’s only the social conservatives who see the source of the problem. Take away the incentives for being a degenerate, lustful capitalist, and you suddenly don’t need to patch a social problem with economic solutions.

            • jim says:

              Reflect on sex lives of Bezos and Zuckerberg. The rich are not getting pussy. Jeremy Meeks is getting pussy. The closer management gets to the terrifying power of Human Resources, to the holy inquisition, the less pussy they get.

              Hence contracting. The boss outsources human resources to get the threat further away.

              Progressivism and the holy priesthood is bad for everyone’s sex lives, but it is worse for capitalists.

              The priesthood hates merchants as it hates warriors, and under Obama, was crushing and destroying them.

              Complex societies are the result of males cooperating – and the male capacity to cooperate is the result of selection for collective action to hog the most women.

              Failure of the elite to reproduce reflects breakdown of cooperation within the elite. The state religion contains the social technology for cooperation within the elite, thus failure of the elite to reproduce reflects a dysfunctional state religion promoting a dysfunctional moral code, a moral code that prevents cooperation, an evil moral code.

            • R7 Rocket says:

              @Anonymous Fake

              “The need for wealth to trickle down instead of sitting in zero-velocity accounts for the elites, and creating negative utility for the everyone else”

              Oh how cute, the commie thinks rich people keep their wealth in Scrooge McDuck money bins.

              • jim says:

                Commies do not understand that though money does not produce money, a cow does produce cows, so naturally they think “capital” is a big pile of gold that fell from heaven and the evil capitalists rounded it up before anyone else could. Hence the tendency of commies to kill the peasant’s cows and attribute the ensuing milk and meat shortage to mysterious evil forces, then go on the hunt to find and kill those responsible for this mysterious and totally unexpected evil.

                The word “capital” comes from the word for “head”, as in count of cattle. A “capitalist” is a merchant who uses the market to apply potentially productive assets to their highest and best use.

                • jack boot says:

                  [*deleted*]

                • jim says:

                  Deleted for presupposing the commie definition of usury.

                  This blog uses the Christian definition of usury. I don’t allow our shibboleths to be given new meanings. If you want to talk about usury as defined by commies, acknowledge that you are using a definition with which Christians and reactionaries are unlikely to agree, acknowledge that we use words differently.

                  I explain usury here, here, and here.

  26. jim says:

    Strannick:

    > Yes many people there, probably two-thirds, miss the Soviet Union and actually more than a few had better lives back then in a Socialist system than they do now.

    Do they now?

    How many people run on the platform of restoring Soviet socialism and how many votes do they get?

    It is down in the asterisks, and such votes as they do get are mainly young people who never experienced socialism, plus some old folks who lost power and status with the fall of communism.

    • Strannik says:

      You know as well as I do Jim that it’s not the number of votes that counts, it’s who the vote counters are, and that’s a fact anywhere. But there are more reasons why the Communists and Soviet types lose.

      What keeps these people from being a threat are not so much their votes, as that their votes are also divided among numerous different Communist and Soviet Nationalist parties, and so United Russia, Capitalist and Russian Patriotic, easily can count on a plurality of the vote anyway no matter what.

      But polls in Russia over the past 25 years have consistently shown that two-thirds of Russians would prefer a restoration to some degree of the Soviet Union. And these aren’t lazy layabout scumbags or old people who are nostalgic for the ”good old days” either. These are just regular working people, struggling to survive a system that left their country in ruins and a handful of people with everything that wasn’t nailed down, looted, monetized and sent into western banks, Oligarchs with homes in London and Spain, etc…

      • jim says:

        Not seeing a whole lot of nostalgia for those empty Soviet shops, long waiting lists, and crap consumer goods. No one who matters is running on a platform of restoring the Soviet economic order.

        The only Russian communist party that gets any votes is the CPRF, and it disowns the Soviet economic order. Its economic platform would look moderate to the American Democrats. Socialism gets more support at the polls in the USA than in Russia.

        Socialism only works till you run out of other people’s money. National Socialism eats the peasant’s seed corn and kills the peasant’s cows. Soviet Socialism eats the peasant’s seed corn and kills the peasant for being so wicked as to own cows.

        Bernie Sander’s supporters do not hate the universities for signing them up for massive debt and worthless degrees. Instead they hate the boomers for getting relatively cheap degrees that were actually worth something. Trotsky hated the peasants for having cows and land when he had pissed away the capital he needed to operate as an urban Jewish moneylender. Progressives hate farms, factories and oilwells.

        • Strannik says:

          Jim, They re-introduced profit making with the ”design agencies” and other euphemisms for a Corporation in the USSR back in the 1960’s. Russians know that most of what you’re discussing went on after that, and especially after the oil market went tits up in the 1970’s. By the time Gorbachev came along, all he was interested in doing was helping close up shop and facilitate looting everything that wasn’t nailed down.

          The KPRF explicitly follows a platform of Chinese style Communism, which is to say, not really Communism, either. The other smaller parties vary in their platforms but are more Socialist than the KPRF.

          As for the rest, I know that you believe that, suffice it to say on my part that Socialism for good or for ill doesn’t seem to last long, and that Capitalism appears to be from what i’ve seen, the natural default economic system for fallen mankind.

          • info says:

            @Strannik

            Sure capitalism is a system for fallen mankind. But that doesnt necessarily mean socialism is the economic system of non-fallen mankind either.

            If capitalism works best out of them all. It may actually work best absent the fall.

            • Strannik says:

              ”All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they shared with anyone who was in need. With one accord they continued to meet daily in the temple courts and to break bread from house to house, sharing their meals with gladness and sincerity of heart.”

              And Our Lord said Himself to the young Rich man;

              ”Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”

              • info says:

                @Strannik

                Note the absence of coercion and government control. And the assumption that all are working.

                The monasteries seem pretty good in realizing this.

                • jim says:

                  There seemed to be a whole lot of private coercion in that people dumped daughters they suspected of being likely to produce bastard children in nunneries, in that the state dumped whores in nunneries, and in that a lot of monks took up the monastic life because the alternative was likely to be the equivalent of vagrancy charges.

                  But yes, quasi private, and a great deal better than welfare, since the monasteries and nunneries not only fed people who might cause problems if they were hungry, but also gave them community, dignity, and meaningful work.

                • Strannik says:

                  To be fair, I’ve never seen a Socialist ideology where everyone wasn’t called upon to work; ”If a man will not work, neither let him eat”. Socialism=/= ”Welfarism”… But yes, the higher spiritual life of the monastery cannot be coerced, or under government control.

                • jim says:

                  Marxist theory is that labor is value (capital and the boss’s decisions being entirely useless and irrelevant) So if a Marxist takes Marxism seriously, as Mao did, he is apt to put the peasants to work – albeit the work is apt to be useless or destructive.

                  But envy and covetousness means that the secret stash theory just keeps bubbling up. It is more a subconscious attitude, not an explicit theory that he knows he believes.

                  They think that they believe that people should work, but actually they don’t believe it.

        • Anonymous Fake says:

          Bernie Bros legitimately hate capitalism for failing to show up when they were in school. Capitalism fails to distribute economic information about jobs and salaries, no matter how good it is at price signaling with goods, and over time we see labor ever more expensive and goods ever cheaper. And yet, people still have to work, and there are a finite number of jobs.

          With sexual revolution, capitalists become far less autistic and more of the pathological heterosexual type (like Trump, ironically), and they cease to create jobs for their own sake because giving jobs to a fellow man provides him with a means to support a family, entirely at odds for what incentives were set up for the capitalists to work harder. Gold, clothes, and ho’s.

          Russia has a unique position due to its brutally cold and dark climate. It has an organic alcohol problem due to winter associated depression, sometimes endemic and sometimes epidemic, that reduces the male/female ratio such that the horny capitalists don’t have to work so hard promoting poz to achieve their harem goals. This is usually a good and K-selected thing, but rapid technological change in the 20th century resulted in disproportionately high returns on utility for accepting sexual revolution so elite and lustful capitalists would grind (lol) harder. Ordinary proles just didn’t matter.

          A new Soviet mindset requires a positive, explicit social conservatism as a refined upgrade of the accidental, natural one that even Lenin and Trotsky couldn’t suppress, and their tricks are well known now. The economics comes later, but for now simply avoiding neoliberal capitalism is sufficient.

          • jim says:

            > Bernie Bros legitimately hate capitalism for failing to show up when they were in school. Capitalism fails to distribute economic information about jobs and salaries, no matter how good it is at price signaling with good

            Capitalism distributes information about jobs and salaries all the time. That is why job fairs and technology shows are always full of engineers.

            You want to know market prices, go to a market. Job markets exist largely to distribute economic information about jobs and salaries.

            Trouble is that schools fail to distribute information about jobs and salaries.

            The students were not lied to by capitalism. They were lied to by the Universities, who sold them degrees in finger painting and Wakandan science at stupendously high prices, to be paid for later.

            The Bernie Bros hate capitalism because capitalism creates wealth, and they do not, and they hate boomers for not getting as badly scammed by the universities as they were. They hate fracking because they see wealth coming out of the ground, and do not know why it is not coming out of the ground for them.

            > giving jobs to a fellow man provides him with a means to support a family, entirely at odds for what incentives were set up for the capitalists to work harder. Gold, clothes, and ho’s.

            If a man does not own a wife and children, he might as well hang out in his single mother’s basement and play pornographic video games.

            Back when capitalists were allowed to do so, and back when wives were socially required to honor and obey, capitalists showed a marked preference for hiring married men with children, because more reliable and harder working. The state forbade them to do this, because the Democratic Party State wants a society of atomized individuals who do not work and are dependent on the state.

            They still secretively and illegally show that preference, but interviewers are forbidden to ask. It is, however, a good idea to spontaneously tell.

            • Anonymous Fake says:

              “You want to know market prices, go to a market.”

              I have a better idea. Honor good students with good jobs by forcing employers to physically interact with the schools, in the exact same way the students are forced to be there. Common sense.

              Most students would be much more conservative much earlier in life if only they were given the right information sooner. The problem is a mental bloc still affecting mostly boomer conservatives who can’t see that capitalists aren’t their social conservative friends.

              Islam, for what it’s worth, can survive welfare states. Think about this.

              • jim says:

                > I have a better idea.

                You want to give power to the people who are screwing us over, and take power away from the people who are creating wealth, because you hate the people who are creating wealth, and love the people who burned you.

                Give the people who burned you more power, they will burn you worse.

                Socialism eats the peasant’s seed corn and kills the peasant’s cows. That is your “better idea”.

                “Good students” are apt to be bad employees, because increasingly college selects for and rewards bad personal characteristics. Increasingly, students are deemed “good” on characteristics that mean they do not deserve a job. If you want a scholarship to Harvard, tell them in your admission entry essay that you helped burn down a supermarket and that while hiding behind women, you threw a rock at a cop. When the priesthood expands beyond its proper role in this world priests hate warriors, and thus professors hate cops.

                My kids participated in fake activism organization so that they could put fake activism on their admission essays. The universities are getting wise to fake activism organizations, and now want some assault and damage to prove the organization is real.

              • Not Tom says:

                Honor good students with good jobs by forcing employers to physically interact with the schools

                Typical commie shill, thinking that jobs are merely goodies to be doled out to the “deserving”.

                Jobs exist because business owners need certain work to be performed. They cannot create make-work jobs, or else they don’t remain in business for long.

                Governments can launch massive public works projects, which are essentially make-work jobs, and this strategy was used to some success in older times. But our federal and state governments are no longer capable of executing these projects successfully, mainly because democracy and liberalism have ruined them.

                • jim says:

                  Capitalism is terribly unfair because the goodies go to those deplorable people who create value, instead of going to the most holy.🙃

                • Not Tom says:

                  I actually find the lack of advocacy for public works projects quite interesting, as these have always been the most effective way to transform the unemployed and unemployable into something at least marginally resembling employed or employable. We can think of them like socialized apprenticeship, a lot less efficient than the private kind but still better than being in undischargable debt and on the dole.

                  If communists actually cared about the poor students, they would demand that the government give them government jobs – and many liberals and old-timey progressives do demand that. But the modern communists and woke progressives don’t; instead, they demand that businesses be forced to hire individuals who not only aren’t productive but in many cases actually subtract value.

                  It’s clever, in a disturbing and midwitted sort of way. They get to hurt the productive and help their fellow entryists at the same time. But it’s further evidence of the pathetic hypocrisy, of the fact that communists have no real principles to speak of and only care about getting their people into power – just in case anyone here was still in doubt about that.

                • The Cominator says:

                  Obama kinda tried to do that by promising “shovel ready jobs” the problem is modern “shovel ready jobs” aren’t shovel ready at all.

                  Government infrastructure projects benefit a very government connected contractors and union members and are designed to costs as much as possible and go on forever.

                • jim says:

                  There are a pile of regulations concocted to stop makework government jobs from being “shovel ready” The government can only produce makework jobs that are Democratic Party Union ready.

                • @Not Tom

                  >I actually find the lack of advocacy for public works projects quite interesting, as these have always been the most effective way to transform the unemployed and unemployable into something at least marginally resembling employed or employable. We can think of them like socialized apprenticeship, a lot less efficient than the private kind but still better than being in undischargable debt and on the dole.

                  Orban tried this in Hungary, it is indeed better than all the other modern alternatives, but the 70IQ gypsies on public works resemble someone employed and employable only very, very marginally. Looks like they will stay state serfs for the foreseeble future.

                  The typical story is that the village council owns farmland bought from heirs who live in the city and don’t want to farm. They set the gypsies to dig potatoes on them as public works, pay them a below-minimal wage, then give them the potatoes to eat and all this makes them plain simply too tired to go stealing. So it brings some level of stability in a system that was previously characterized by crime and what the gypsies called “making living off my dick” i.e. the social welfare given for having lots of children.

                  But… you see I don’t know if the concept of “natural slave” made sense in Aristotle’s time but it definitely does now when factory work is about being an operator of high-tech equipment, the gap between people who can do that and these people keeps growing, meaning these people won’t ever be employable, won’t ever be able to do anything more than digging and because an excavator is better at that and it is unprofitable the state has to pay for that, pretty much forever. The road to serfdom indeed, except HBD version.

                • Anyway, the old saying that the Devil finds work for idle hands is absolutely true and when the government finds work for them the Devil can’t, it really does work as a crime-prevention measure. Crime is first and foremost caused by boredom, men who spend their days standing on street corners WILL find their entertainment like punching the polar bear and then taking his wallet as well.

                  As much as we hate that, as men we can understand that to some extent, can’t we? When your life is entirely empty, when you have energies in you wanting to burst out and do something, anything.

                  Any make-believe work if physically tiring gets rid of most of that energy and goes a long way to prevent crime.

                  I get the impression that Latin America treats the same problem with sports. Soccer is the way out from the ghettoes of Brazil, to fame and money, so a lot of ghetto kids play soccer all day hoping to improve and get noticed one day. Sort of a similar logic. That can be used too, because blacks are natural athletes in ways gypsies are not at all.

                • Jan Martense says:

                  If communists actually cared about the poor students, they would demand that the government give them government jobs – and many liberals and old-timey progressives do demand that. But the modern communists and woke progressives don’t; instead, they demand that businesses be forced to hire individuals who not only aren’t productive but in many cases actually subtract value.

                  Moldbug had a fantastic essay on precisely this topic: https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2013/03/sam-altman-is-not-blithering-idiot/
                  This gist of it is that the “IQ floor” for productive work continues to rise; that is, as technology gets better and better, machines successively replace jobs of increasing skill. These people are literally unemployable, as the wages required for their bare survival (or, worse, minimum wage) is higher than the cost of a machine.

                  This problem doesn’t just affect ghetto blacks and spoiled students who “don’t want to work,” but even, as time goes on, more and more jobs that were previously considered middle class. The solutions either involve 1) “removing” them (unethical), 2) welfare (what we currently have, and as Div. notes a massive crime risk) 3) make-work (we have this as well, its just currently much more subtle and worthless than building Pyramids) or 4) technological restriction.

                  I don’t really think there is a free-market solution to this. I’m torn on whether solution 3 or solution 4 is less distortionary and thus more preferable.

                • Not Tom says:

                  I’m not a strong advocate of government make-work jobs, personally. Only observing that socialists, if they had any consistent principles, ought to be, yet clearly aren’t. Thus it’s not really about elevating the worker, only about destroying the shopkeeper and looting his shop.

                  Our frame is not their frame, I don’t care about elevating the worker – but they claim to care, and are unable to stay consistent even within their stated frame.

                • JanMartense says:

                  I don’t care about worker status in particular either. But are you really willing to let low-IQ people starve by not providing some kind of work? I don’t mean this sarcastically, I just can’t see myself wanting that. Maybe it means I’m ethical, or maybe just weak.

                  And to be clear, diversity quotas are just a stealthier version of low-IQ make-work. Directly hiring them to build pyramids by hand in the Nevada desert is politically nonviable, so the govt is forced to create fake jobs with deficit spending, then fill those jobs with the otherwise unemployable.

                • Not Tom says:

                  And to be clear, diversity quotas are just a stealthier version of low-IQ make-work.

                  Sort of. They’re not just stealthier, but also far more dysgenic. They freeze unlucky or untalented white men out of these jobs and give them to people who should not be working in this country (Indians, Mexicans, etc.) or people who should not be working at all (women). And that’s to say nothing of the faggots and assorted sexual degenerates filling up these positions.

                  If we could just admit what we are, this would be a whole lot simpler. If we ditched the whole diversity shit, sent all the immigrants back and sent all the women home, and told Google and Apple “at least 15% of your workforce must be in the -1SD IQ bracket, find a way to put these people to work, we don’t care if you lose money”, I’ll bet they could come up with some creative solutions that are way less awful than diversity programs.

                  They can’t make them all clean toilets, that’s demeaning to people in the 90-95 range, but maybe they can help maintain office equipment, keep documentation up to date, do in-house QA, all the things employees tend to wish their employers did a better job of anyway. The value is low, but it’s not negative. Walmart figured this out with their greeters, they really don’t need to hire any of those people but it’s sort of a tax they pay to the community.

                  If we could just be honest about the problem, maybe the private sector could actually figure out how to fix it. The problem, if we agree that it’s a problem, isn’t racism and sexism, it’s that low-skill/low-IQ people need meaningful work. Solutions that don’t honestly address the real problem are going to be terrible at solving it.

                • jim says:

                  > The problem, if we agree that it’s a problem, isn’t racism and sexism, it’s that low-skill/low-IQ people need meaningful work. Solutions that don’t honestly address the real problem are going to be terrible at solving it.

                  The monasteries did this job, but the hypocrisy damaged their effectiveness, though not as badly as putting women in engineering damages engineering. Stuffing whores in nunneries was not good idea. Greeters and tidy-up work in the private sector is a better solution, and the work is likely to be more meaningful, since actually needed and useful.

              • Mike in Boston says:

                @NotTom:

                If we ditched the whole diversity shit, sent all the immigrants back and sent all the women home, and told Google and Apple “at least 15% of your workforce must be in the -1SD IQ bracket, find a way to put these people to work, we don’t care if you lose money”, I’ll bet they could come up with some creative solutions that are way less awful than diversity programs.

                […]but maybe they can help maintain office equipment, keep documentation up to date, do in-house QA…

                This is such a good idea that even our current dysfunctional society has evolved something like it. If you spend some time working on a large program at one of the giant defense contractors, you may notice that:

                o Positions often require a security clearance, which in practice most staff obtain while in the military.
                o Even positions not requiring a security clearance do require U.S. citizenship.
                o The contractor’s multiplier is set so that its costs, including salaries and benefits, are covered.
                o There is a maximum salary for many positions, which is often less than the free-market rate for a position which is on paper comparable, consistent with it being a stretch for someone at -1SD to hold down that position in the free market.
                o Perhaps to partially compensate for the former, staffing levels are pretty high and work is very process-heavy. There is lots of documentation and QA.

                It makes sense for a country to have a jobs program. Building pyramids in the desert is passé, but defense-related work is not a bad second choice. There are plenty of black guys, former military and very organized, for whom these programs seem to be a great fit.

                Of course all flavors of “diversity”™ are sacrosanct in this arena as well. That is simply systemic.

                • Not Tom says:

                  I think this evolved partly because (I assume) defense contractors aren’t allowed to offshore. Most private-sector companies would love to farm all of this work out to Indian call centers and Chinese factories, and will generally do so as soon as they believe they can get away with it.

                  The market is more-or-less capable of solving a big part of the problem on its own, without any government micro-management, if the government does some macro-management in the form of trade restrictions, particularly as relates to labor – but there are probably still some gaps to fill if you want to get close to full employment.

                  I find the average black guys to be more competent than the imported/offshored street shitters, as long as they come from a decent family and community. For the worse-than-average, the solution for them is the infamous Jim Crow: eliminate the white (and mestizo) competition, maintain order, and force the talented tenth to take responsibility for the other 90%. Of course that seems to be a controversial if not taboo subject, even here.

            • RedBible says:

              If a man does not own a wife and children, he might as well hang out in his single mother’s basement and play pornographic video games.

              Interesting thought I had was, following that train of thought, it would seem that making sure that a man gets a wife and children is a good idea for society. Not that I’d approve of socializing marriage or the selling of daughters, but seems like your statement approves of men marring before fully securing the ability to provide.

              • RedBible says:

                (just realized that the way I wrote what I wrote, I need to clarify, it to read as instead:)
                …socializing marriage or socializing the selling of daughters…

              • jim says:

                Ideally, sex is hard to obtain except by marrying an obedient virgin wife, and marrying an obedient virgin wife is tough unless you are on track to the ability to provide, but as easy as falling off a log if you have secured the ability to provide.

                • Anonymous says:

                  Does that mean that ideally, brothels and prostitutes are vanishingly rare?

                • jim says:

                  We suppress the supply, not the demand.

                  Whoring is a career choice alternative to wifing. Girls just want to have fun.

        • The Cominator says:

          > “Capitalism distributes information about jobs and salaries all the time. That is why job fairs and technology shows are always full of engineers.”

          In 2004-2005 I know it was pretty impossible for a white guy to get hired as an engineer out of school even though the jobs picture WAS rosy going into school.

          Too many foreigners and too bad a tech downturn. Things never REALLY recovered until Trump either.

          • jim says:

            In such a terrible tech job market as 2004-2005, you need prior experience. College is not prior experience. No one wants a new graduate except to tick affirmative action boxes. Open source is prior experience.

        • A says:

          they hate boomers for not getting as badly scammed by the universities as they were

          I hate boomers for being cowards. It is a hatred of weakness. I have nothing but contempt for a generation who sided with the Cathedral against their own children in return for a few trinkets from China and a few extra houses.

      • The Cominator says:

        I think the Russians miss the Soviet Union as a respected world power (although Putin has sort of remade Russia one of those anyway, perhaps with more genuine military strength then the Soviet Union ever really had except at the end of WWII) they don’t miss the breadlines and lack of consumer anything. There might have been some very dark times in the 1990s when the Soviet economic order was missed but they wouldn’t miss it today.

  27. jim says:

    Strannik:

    > > Wanted to reply to this but had no ‘reply’ function;

    Not Tom:

    > Once again: reply to the parent post, and blockquote whom you’re replying to

    Exactly so. When you cannot reply directly in the comment thread, start a new thread from the post, with an extensively blockquote from the thread comment you are replying to.

    Strannik:<blockquote>> > Wanted to reply to this but had no ‘reply’ function;</blockquote>
    Not Tom: <blockquote>> Once again: reply to the parent post, and blockquote whom you’re replying to</blockquote>

    Otherwise comments would creep to the right hand side of the page.

  28. Jehu says:

    You know, an interesting experiment could be made of this. The US army has always had a parallel unofficial supply line going back further than I can remember. That line is packages from home. I understand that some special forces types also get allowances to procure stuff from Amazon and the like.
    What if we took a test company, perhaps even a regiment, and assigned them to a bunch of homeschool moms or military widows in a sort of, adopt a few soldiers program, and funneled a logistical allowance to said irregular contractors to procure what their adopted boys need. They could then on a weekly basis drop the loot off at the local Kohls, which is an Amazon returns point. They could communicate their needs by way of email/text/letters, and they could have food, ammunition, medical supplies, clothing etc all delivered to them.
    Near as I can tell, the military is pretty good at moving stuff from point A to B and insuring that Amazon can ship to them, but rotten at price efficiency or quality in procurement. It’d be interesting to see what, say, 2/3 of what the military customarily spends on logistical support per soldier would buy in the hands of homeschool moms.

    • jim says:

      > It’d be interesting to see what, say, 2/3 of what the military customarily spends on logistical support per soldier would buy in the hands of homeschool moms.

      Probably several campervans to store a horde of concubines.

      An army operating far from home needs many camp followers for each actual fighting man. If you skimp on camp followers, you end up with fewer fighting men than you think you have, because too many non warrior duties. Some people, in the end a remarkably large proportion of people, wind up doing non warrior duties full time, resulting in the stolen valor problem.

      The treatment of Florence Nightingale and Lord Cardigan shows stolen valor was intentional, but you also wind up with it happening unintentionally.

      • Jehu says:

        So if we assigned every fighting man a manservant, and perhaps one extra at the squad of 10 level, in addition to the outsourced logistics in terms of procurement from the US, would that provide the necessary level of camp follower support far from home? If so, how much would that cost relative to the status quo?

  29. Strannik says:

    Wanted to reply to this but had no ‘reply’ function;

    ”Atavistic Morality says:
    2020-02-06 at 13:29

    @The Cominator

    That would explain his delusional obsession with the Soviet Union.

    What is the equivalent of a weeb for Russia?”

    First of all, having lived there, having that heritage, being Orthodox Christian, and having Russian wife and family and friends, I have no ”obsession with the Soviet Union”, It’s ruins are something that I had to come across pretty much every day. And yes many people there, probably two-thirds, miss the Soviet Union and actually more than a few had better lives back then in a Socialist system than they do now. But most know there’s no going back, only forwards, and Capitalism in Russia is there to stay for the indefinite future. And the kids know nothing else than post-1991 Russia. Point being, a Socio-Economic system is merely that, and the underlying materialism of both Socialism and Capitalism is what is killing people inside, the soulessness of modernity.

    Understanding the past helped me understand the present. And coming from my Cold War child in a military family background, I have no desire or incentive to be some kind of Commie fanboy. When I was in Russia, I also saw what the God-Fighting Bolsheviks had not destroyed but had tried to, the Russia before 1917, the traditional and Orthodox Russia. Reaching down into the living remains of that era, I realized something about Russia and Russians;

    Russians are the most innately reactionary of peoples at their core, from what I’ve seen, and 75 years of Communism didn’t change that. If anything, They changed the Ideology and diverted it into a Great Russian Nationalism under the guise of Marxist-Leninist dogmas and Shibboleths. The Soviet period is just a bad period in Russia’s 1000 year history, like the Mongol Yoke era or the ”Time of Troubles”. They survived and overcame.

    I didn’t write this for you, it’s possible that none of this will change your opinion and I really don’t care, but it’s the truth and that is what’s important.

    • Bob says:

      I don’t know anything about Russia. Are Russians reactionary in that they think women shouldn’t treated like, or have as much respect as men? Do they think race correlates with biology in ways that determine culture and thus explains many of the difference between the Boers and the Zulu? I imagine the communist system is still having effects, but are the effects reversing?

      • Omar is just a Trump card now. says:

        The short answer to your first two questions is “more or less YES”. Russian women tend to be submissive, domestic violence without serious injury has been legalized, and along with most Eastern Europeans they are relatively race-realist.

        • Omar is just a Trump card now. says:

          ^ The race realist “they” above referring to Russians in general, not the women specifically

        • Not Tom says:

          Russian women tend to be submissive

          Maybe in Russia they are. In North America they launch brutal shit tests, even the first-generation immigrants.

          • jim says:

            > In North America they launch brutal shit tests, even the first-generation immigrants.

            Pretty brutal in Russia also, though yes, the quality of women is substantially better than in the US. But Russia still has a huge feral woman problem, in some ways better than the US, but in some ways worse.

            • The Cominator says:

              I don’t think its worse, “domestic violence” within limits is now legal in Russia (you can’t do it every night and you can’t send the girl to the ER) and from what I’ve heard not worse.

              American women have all sorts of conscious unrealistic expectations but secretly want Jeremy Meeks, Russian women have a completely reasonable expectation that their man not be a dysfunctional drunk and Putin is apparently considered the ideal alpha male (he is the only right wing leader on earth who gets a higher % of the female vote than the male vote and he has female pop songs about him).

              Russian women might be a bit more “whorish” but far less feminist and far more prosocial in what they are attracted to.

              • jim says:

                Yes, Eastern European women are far more prosocial in whom they are attracted to, but still suffer badly from the universal and unchanging woman problem of cashing in their youth and beauty to party rather than form a family with the highest quality man they can form a family with.

                • Strannik says:

                  I haven’t seen much of that sort of woman over there, either (not saying they don’t exist) but one factor modifying behavior is that men and women over in places I’ve been to in Russia don’t seem to have the luxury of engaging in nonsense. I’ve mainly been in smaller cities and in rural areas, and i’ve never seen more solid and sensible plain-spoken people in my life-except when I was growing up in rural 1970’s Texas and Oklahoma.

                • Not Tom says:

                  i’ve never seen more solid and sensible plain-spoken people in my life

                  Russia and Eastern Europe are less pozzed than the USA and Western Europe right now, but that’s seriously romanticizing the way they live. There is plenty of nonsense.

      • Strannik says:

        ”I don’t know anything about Russia. Are Russians reactionary in that they think women shouldn’t treated like, or have as much respect as men?”

        The Russian men I saw were the boss in and out of their homes, and their women were respectful of them

        ”Do they think race correlates with biology in ways that determine culture and thus explains many of the difference between the Boers and the Zulu?”

        Russians were racial realists before, during, and after the Soviet period.

        ” I imagine the communist system is still having effects, but are the effects reversing?”

        In both bad and good ways. More people are turning to God in their lives, but there is more egoism and anti-social behavior.

        • Bob says:

          It’s interesting that the communist country believes in equality less than us. I’m sure Jim and Moldbug have talked about why, but what the heck? Heaven forbid Trump doesn’t stop the leftist singularity, but if we turn into a socialist hellscape, will the survivors be as based as the Russians?

          • Not Tom says:

            Russia and China today are not communist countries. You could say “formerly communist countries”, but formerly they were just as equalist as America at the time.

            A socialist hellscape likely would produce a more red-pilled population, largely because the blue-pilled will all get killed. But we would lose an enormous amount of useful capital, both human and material, in the process.

            • >A socialist hellscape likely would produce a more red-pilled population, largely because the blue-pilled will all get killed

              I am not sure I understand that. In Soviet type countries, if blue-pilled means being a Communist either by faith or opportunism that is a way to career, not getting killed, only those who have too radical faith get killed as troublemakers. And perhaps a naive kind of blue-pillers who believe the system is benevolent, but even they did not as much got killed as got used. Killing was more on a class basis. And being openly red-pilled was punished.

              The safe way was to be kinda half-pilled. Do not trust the system, but do say its shibboleths, and that is far easier if you have a little belief in them. So the safe belief was to believe Communism is basically a noble idea but it is currently being ran by scumbags one must be cautious with.

              And having the West as a comparison was very eye-opening. The problem of the West is not having its own West – an obviously better model somewhere else. I mean, okay, China does look better, but when you see stuff like arresting the doc who blew the first whistle on the virus… not ideal.

              Then another redpill came that when the Soviet system came crumbling down, the new quasi-Western way of life was not so good either. Capitalism was implemented in entirely wrong ways, instead of nurturing domestic grassroots entrepreneurs, it was all too often a totally corrupted selling of state property to oligarchs who sell it to foreigners and unemployment skyrocketed and so on. One lesson was learned that the state is a bad owner of productive property, yes, but they are even worse at selling it well than running it well. Private property that grows from the grassroots is good, privatized property, property sold by the state is often pretty bad.

              And they got all the woke stuff pushed on them. And it had a very different impact. Look, I think the core thing the Libs in the West play with is guilt. Their target, already back in the Civil Rights era, was the kind of white middle-class guy who lived a comfortable life and it was possible to guilt-trip him over the “privileges” he has over e.g. blacks. I think the guilt-tripping mechanism was absolutely core in the liberal playbook.

              But this does not work at all in countries where people are poor and struggling. Telling a man who works 70 hours a week, mostly blue-collar, to provide a basic decent standard of living for the family will never buy that he is oppressing women. He will never buy he is somehow exploiting or oppressing ethnic minorities. He does not have that kind of surplus that could make him afford guilt. To put it this way, when and if victimary thinking arises, he, too, will very much feel like a victim.

              • BC says:

                Then another redpill came that when the Soviet system came crumbling down, the new quasi-Western way of life was not so good either. Capitalism was implemented in entirely wrong ways, instead of nurturing domestic grassroots entrepreneurs, it was all too often a totally corrupted selling of state property to oligarchs who sell it to foreigners and unemployment skyrocketed and so on. One lesson was learned that the state is a bad owner of productive property, yes, but they are even worse at selling it well than running it well. Private property that grows from the grassroots is good, privatized property, property sold by the state is often pretty bad.

                It wasn’t so much that as Russian was deindrustalized almost overnight by free trade. Almost all Russian factories where built by American engineers in the 1930s. They hadn’t been updated and no modern factories were built to replace them. So when Russian embraced free trade all the factories shut down because they couldn’t complete with western produced goods. Russia was then trading raw materials for finish products like every other third would country. This instantly made everyone much poorer because a nation’s wealth is what you can produce.

                Countries only industrialize behind a wall of tariffs because if you go the trading raw materials for finish good route, the price for local raw materials goes up too much to support native industry.

                • jim says:

                  Hong Kong and Singapore industrialized without a wall of tariffs.

                • > Almost all Russian factories where built by American engineers in the 1930s.

                  I will not deny they were backward but perhaps not this backward. The Lada was based on a Fiat 124 licence in 1966, they later improved (well, *changed* for sure, whether it was an improvement I do not know) the original engine, brakes, transmission and suspension. They sold 300K Ladas to the UK where they were the butt of jokes, but low-budget customers still bought them. Does that sound like it was made in 1930 level factories? Clearly it was worse than Western cars but as much worse as 1930 level factories would imply.

                  Going a bit more on in this direction: the 1966 or 1977 Lada was closer to Western cars than the 1990 Lada was. The 1966 Lada was a poor man’s version of the Fiat 124, but in 1990 when the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Tempra was introduced it was obviously far better than the Lada that did not improve much. And Italy is the shittiest Western carmaker, heh.

                  So maybe Gorbachev was right when he called the era from the mid-sixties the Era of Stagnation. The Soviets stayed on roughly 1965, not 1930 level technology while the West marched on.

                • “Hong Kong and Singapore industrialized without a wall of tariffs.”

                  Look, being a small trading valve between huge empires (China vs. British Empire, Malaysia vs. British Empire) does have its natural advantages. Skim a tiny percentage of the trade flowing through, invest into industry.

                • BC says:

                  So maybe Gorbachev was right when he called the era from the mid-sixties the Era of Stagnation. The Soviets stayed on roughly 1965, not 1930 level technology while the West marched on.

                  I’d never heard of the Lada before, but looking it on wikipeida sounds like the Italians engineers built the plant for the Russians.

                  The automaker AvtoVAZ was formed from a collaboration between Fiat and the Soviet Vneshtorg (Department of Foreign Trade), and based in the city of Tolyatti on the Volga river. Both sides discussed the proposal in Moscow, where Gianni Agnelli, the owner and nephew of the founder of Fiat, and Vittorio Valletta, the president of the company, had arrived from Italy. The first preliminary agreement was signed on 1 July 1965. On 4 May 1966, the Soviet minister of automotive industry Alexander Tarasov and Vittorio Valletta put their signatures on a protocol on the scientific and technical cooperation between Fiat and the Soviet ministry. Eventually, a general agreement between the two sides was signed in Moscow on 15 August 1966.[5]

                  The company began producing the VAZ-2101 in 1970, which was a more rugged version of the Fiat 124 sedan. The car was given heavier steel body panels and strengthened components, which improved reliability on the bumpy roads and in the harsh winters of the Soviet Union,[6][7] In Fiat’s documents the prototype of the car was named Fiat-124R, where ‘R’ stood for Russia.

                • Ex says:

                  Oh, Lada jokes, that brings back memories… my old familymembers used to tell a lot of those.

                  “Did you hear about the grandmother who bought a box of steel wool? She was going to knit a Lada.”
                  “Where’s the heater in a Lada? It’s in the glove compartment and is a jumprope.”
                  “What’s written in the Lada user’s manual? Timetables for train and bus.”
                  “What does LADA stand for? Lavet Av Dumme Aber.” (‘made by stupid apes’)
                  “How do you double the value of a Lada? Fill the gas tank.”
                  “How many people does it take to run a Lada factory? Two – one with scissors and one with a pot of glue.”

                  “A Lada is parked at the side of the road when a donkey comes by. The donkey says: Good morning, car. The Lada says: Good morning, donkey. The donkey is upset and says: Look, if I’m nice enough to call you a car, you should return the favor and call me a horse!”

                • Now that think of it, it actually sounds reasonable that 1930’s level factories can be stretched to make a poorer version of 1960’s products with a bit of retooling and suchlike, you aren’t supposed to replace a whole factory every 10 years, just improve it. And then they got increasingly unable to keep up.

              • Not Tom says:

                In Soviet type countries, if blue-pilled means being a Communist either by faith or opportunism that is a way to career, not getting killed, only those who have too radical faith get killed as troublemakers.

                Post-Stalin, the extreme radicals get killed. Pre-Stalin, everyone who is insufficiently pious gets killed.

                Observe the Democrat holiness spiral; the Iowa primaries, for example. The most vulnerable are on the soft left, not the hard right. The left always eats its own, and usually eats them first, not last.

                Blue-pilled is not the communist radicals. Not really; they have no principles at all. The people who get killed are the ones with stupid principles, the principles that you always need to follow the Queensbury rules, that democracy is really great and powerful women are a turn-on. They get killed. The Putins don’t get killed, they understand the communists better than the communists understand themselves, and either camouflage themselves effectively or just get the hell out of Dodge when it gets too hot and come back when there’s a huge power vacuum.

            • Bob says:

              Formerly communist. My mistake.

          • The Cominator says:

            In Russia and Eastern Europe largely because of Stalin.

            Stalin after 1937 for the most part adopted a policy of en masse killing all the communist true believers (and of course afterwords the mass murders lessened) even for the ideological positions the emphasis henceforth was on following orders not on Marxist or egalitarian belief.

            I’m not sure what happened with China exactly… Mao pursued the purity spiral with the Great Cultural Revolution but this failed…

          • Strannik says:

            No, because we don’t have the 1000 year history of Orthodox Christianity, so we wouldn’t be as ”based”.

            Nor would we survive. America is falling apart as it is for reasons that only slightly relate to economics, and everything to do with being a spiritual ”Hellscape”.

            It will go easier on Sodom and Gomorrah and the other Cities of the Plain than with us.

          • Strannik says:

            No, because we don’t have the 1000 year history of Orthodox Christianity, so we wouldn’t be as ”based”.

            Nor would we survive. America is falling apart as it is for reasons that only slightly relate to economics, and everything to do with being a spiritual ”Hellscape”.

            It will go easier on Sodom and Gomorrah and the other Cities of the Plain than with us.

            • Not Tom says:

              Cultural history can be erased – easily. Happens all the time. If Russians were unique in having recovered from communism, it would be because they are Russian, not because they are Orthodox Christian.

              But Russia isn’t unique. China’s state religion is about as far as you can get from Orthodox Christianity, yet they recovered. If America does not recover, it will not be due to religion, but due to demographics. Russia and China, in spite of their troubles with communism, did not invite nearly as much of the third world as America. Russia is still largely Russian, China is still largely Han, but America is not really American.

              Religious revivals are going to happen anyway during any period of mass casualties. Religion is fertility, and when civilization is dying off, the fertile win by default. A major collapse in America would lead to a huge shift toward conventional religions, mostly Christianity but also a rise in Islam and Orthodox Judaism. That part is inevitable. But whether this new religious group is capable of carrying on civilization depends not only on what religion they follow, but who they actually are. If they have an average IQ of 80, as in central/Latin America, not going to be much of a recovery. Average of 95-105, probably going to be a decent recovery regardless of precise religion.

              • Strannik says:

                Maybe I am biased and do not cotton much to materialistic explanations, but I lay the slow and painful recovery to Orthodoxy.

                • Not Tom says:

                  Russian Orthodoxy is an important part of Russian culture, and compared to many/most other denominations around today, it’s fantastic.

                  But you should be inherently suspicious of any theory that posits a single, narrow cause for any dramatic social change. Reality is rarely so simple. Omar lists several contributing factors below, and they were probably all in play.

          • Omar is just a Trump card now. says:

            Anatoli Karlin has blogposts on the “Soviet Freezer” as he calls it; the preservation of old attitudes on many subjects due to discussion being suppressed, and/or isolation from the decadent West and it’s Progress.

            The Moldbug explanation would be that the USSR and China were never occupied by the US and did not get the Progress Acceleration that happened in Europe.

            Something similar is true for Israel. The immigrants from the USSR and from Arab countries were both in the cultural freezer and demographically overwhelmed the older population of socialist Jews. Having to fight wars also prevents some of the leftward flight from reality, and lefties being outbred by religious Jews is helping in recent years. It’s not exactly the same in end result; Israel is still much further to the left than Russia on homosexuals and the WQ. I guess if Bibi survives his Mueller inquisition he will start purging the left and that would help.

            • Strannik says:

              I’ve noticed that people in Russia don’t run their mouth a whole lot anyways, for any reason, even in private. I once sat in a bank lobby full of people there for almost 30 minutes and didn’t hear anyone speak except when I was called to the tellers window and after. It was nice, really nice, not having to hear inane blathering all the time.

              But when they do talk about politics and similar things people in the West tend to avoid, wow, at first I was pretty shocked. really nice to be able to hear things that need to be said, too.

        • Bob says:

          If Russians are redpilled, why is their birthrate low? Are there more factors that affect it?

          • Strannik says:

            Glad you asked. In short, the CATHEDRAL wrote their Constitution after the collapse of the Soviet Union, and in their Constitution international agreements including the ”right” to an abortion and contraceptives, trump any proposed Russian national laws. Putin has been acting within those boundaries, and is not personally opposed to Abortion and Contraception. But he is carrying out a re-write of the Constitution that will truly make Russia sovereign.

            Since he also pushed through measures to economically help couples have more children, the birthrate has climbed to what is a genuinely astounding 1.7 children per couple from a low of less than 1.0.

            • Bob says:

              Interesting. Sounds like Russia’s all set to get things running if they can get away from the Cathedral’s tendrils. Good luck!

    • Not Tom says:

      Dude. Once again: reply to the parent post, and blockquote whom you’re replying to.

    • Oak says:

      The chad thread-starter:

      -Only replies to his own threads
      -Always on top
      -Literally no one knows who he’s replying to; doesn’t care
      -Creates chaos in every comment section he visits
      -Told repeatedly how to reply properly
      -Starts every thread with: ‘wanted to reply to x but no reply button’
      -Doesn’t know what blockquote is; too busy banging Russian wife

      • Nikolai says:

        Lmao

      • Viking says:

        Lol
        That’s a good thing no?

      • Strannik says:

        I had to laugh at that, lol…. I have a busy life indeed, an older guy like me has to make up for a lot of lost time 🙂

        • The Cominator says:

          I lol’d too dude…

          Also should add

          – Actual nonshill nazbol who genuinely supports Trump
          – Well adjusted Orthodox Christian patriarch with glorious beard…

          • Strannik says:

            A recovering Socialist is like a recovering Alcoholic, there will be relapses. What changes me inside is being a husband and a father, with responsibilities. Being an old reprobate only gets you so far. Orthodoxy and Monarchy, that gets me further.

  30. BC says:

    So the Senate trial comes to an end as a grey wash when the GOP senators doing everything possible to harm Trump including scheduling things to take the wind out Trump’s SOTU speech. Still no signs that Trump has the GOP under any sort of control or Mitt Romney wouldn’t have thought about playing the traitor.

    • Strannik says:

      1. How did the GOP Senators manage to ‘take the wind out of Trump’s SOTU speech? It was a political masterpiece in my opinion that publicly rendered the Impeachment the total irrelevancy that it really was, President Trump being acquitted the next day-today. And, it showed the public once more (with the Iowa fiasco fresh on people’s minds) that the Democrats are total evil lunatics who can’t do anything right

      2. Mitt Romney’s core reason for even being a US Senator is envy and spite. As it is he’s the only GOP Senator who voted for the President’s removal from office. Everybody else simply knew better, and nobody could fail to see what Romney was going to do.

    • The Cominator says:

      Nobody has much control over Romney unfortunately (unless blackmailing him) for what its worth I do know a Mormon and I asked him to try to petition to get Romney excommunicated. That is something Romney might actually care about.

      • BC says:

        The issue is no one is going to punish Mitt for it. Trump needs to be feared by back stabbing rats like Romney if he’s ever going to be in charge.

        • Bob says:

          I can authoritatively say that Romney won’t be ex’d because of this. Even if a hundred thousand letters were sent to Salt Lake demanding it.

          There is a proposed law to allow recall of Senators, however. With his falling popularity, he might eat it that way. He only barely won the primary, against a no name guy, after being denied his request to the Utah gop to let him skip it. I’m hopeful.

          • jim says:

            How authoritatively? Without doxing yourself or anyone else, tell where did you get this from?

            • RedBible says:

              I can’t tell if which part of Bob’s post you were wanting clarification on, but I know a few things from an external view of the Mormon church.

              Unlikely to be ex’d, because if it’s the way mormons see it, getting ex’d is for “super duper” bad sins. From a more “outsider” perspective, it’s also used to punish “crimes against the church”. Seeing how mormons are steadily becoming more progressive by the year, (like, last year they changed the “temple ceremony” so that the wife in no longer answers to he husband to answer to god, but just straight to god herself) as well as that many mormons disliked trump since he is “too worldly” and “grabs ’em by the pussy”, highly doubt that Romney is going to get in trouble with the leader of the mormons.
              Though is it likely to cause him to lose re-elections since even Utah overall liked Trump.

            • Bob says:

              Low to moderately authoritatively. My sources of knowledge are seeing other public figures ex’d and access to the manual outlining the excommunication process. I’m not privy to what anyone in any leadership is thinking or their willingness to break precedent.

              Excommunication in the LDS church is done by one’s bishop, not by the leadership in salt lake. The heretic Kate Kelly, who was advocating for women to get into the priesthood, hadn’t been to her ward in months/years, but got an email from the bishop of her ward telling her he was starting and she should come back to be at the meetings, which he would run. She had thousands of followers agitating the leadership in salt lake, but nothing happened to her until her bishop in Virginia emailed her. Maybe someone in slc told him to ex her?

              The list of excomminicable acts is made up of sexual sins, felony crimes, and teaching (not just believing) false doctrine.

              Harry Reid was rather liberal and never given a hard time by leadership.

              Precedent could be broken and it’s possible, though unheard of, to be called to salt lake for a disciplinary council and have one’s politics examined.

              Does anyone know something I don’t?

    • Not Tom says:

      Did they ever call on Ciaramella to testify? Lindsey Graham was adamant about wanting to. But impeachment circus is boring AF so I don’t know if it happened.

      That, to me, is the biggest deal. If they couldn’t even publicly unmask the little shit who colluded with Schiff to start the whole thing (and had his fingerprints all over Russiagate), it means we’re still a long way off from solving any coup-complete problems.

      They did drag it out an extra week, pull key Democrats off the campaign trail as I pointed out before, which likely helped to create the chaos in Iowa. So not a total loss I guess. But still just playing the stupid game of democracy, eking out marginal wins rather than fundamentally changing the game.

      • jim says:

        If Trump cannot punish people who use illegal means to overthrow him, it is going to escalate.

        The Senate trial turned into another greywash. Greywash only kicks the conflict down the road a way.

        When the elite struggles for power using coercive means, it is not going to end until one side dies. They will arrest, and then kill, Trump and his family, or Trump will arrest, and then kill, them.

        Once the elite deploys the coercive apparatus of the state against each other, it can end only when one side is decisively coerced.

        The compelling logic of violence is that it escalates till one side decisively wins, and the other decisively loses. The Rubicon has already been crossed. Maybe it will end with the deaths of a small handful of Democrats, maybe the deaths of a small handful of Republicans, maybe it will end with cities being nuked. But violence, once started, can only be ended by deploying sufficient violence to end it.

  31. The discussion with Pooch upthread about how Hispanics are depressing wages in the US reminded me that interestingly, the donor countries are also often not happy about skilled people emigrating – when you need a doctor or plumber and can’t find one because so many have emigrated, that is a problem. So the funny thing is this. Ignoring now crime, welfare and ethnic tension, for the immigration recipient countries, the ideal thing would be if immigration would only happen up to the level when it solves a lack of skilled labor shortage in one segment or another. Similarly, for the donor countries, emigration would be good only if takes the surplus, unemployed workforce away but does not cause an acute skills shortage. I cal tell you Eastern Europeans are bitching at least as much about the UK stealing their doctors as the Brits were bitching about cheap EE labor. And maybe farmers in Mexico are bitching about a cucumber-picker shortage.

    So the globally ideal immigration-emigration policy should be getting the numbers exactly right, it should clear the market exactly right, not flooding any country and not causing a skills shortage in another. But we already know this is impossible, markets exist because you cannot issue a market-clearing policy, no way.

    Which means two things. Either immigration-emigration should be somehow a market in itself, but I don’t know how to do that properly. Or just close the fucking borders and let the job market inside countries clear. The lesson of this is that no policy can get this right, market-clearing policies do not exist by definition. Quotas make as much sense as food rationing. You can make an argument for opening up the job market for foreign doctors or programmers and you can make an argument for closing it down and letting the market generate more doctors and programmers by paying them more. What one cannot argue is to set a quota. No government ever can figure out what quota will make the job market clear just right. That is why it is a job market.

    • Ex says:

      You can get a chunk of the way to market with Immigration Insurance, as proposed by various people including Steve Sailer.

      Any prospective immigrant, seasonal worker, or other in-wanderer to America has to post a bond to cover crimes they may commit. Companies planning to import workers are expected to post the bonds for their workers. Most of the bond is refunded if the migrant returns home or assimilates without having committed crime yet.

      Insurance companies will very quickly start pricing well-behaved immigrants with lower rates to cover the bond.

      • Small brain: “Discrimination is bad.” Big brain: “Discrimination is OK.” Galaxy brain: “Discrimination should be turned into a precise actuarian statistical science.” I like that, but it does not solve that problem where plumbers in country A are bitching that plumbers from country B are undercutting them, while people in country B are bitching that they cannot find a plumber when they need one.

        • Steve Johnson says:

          Microecon 201 is that commodity labor – which plumbing approximates – gets priced at marginal product absent collusion by buyers or sellers.

          If EE plumbers are cheaper, it’s because they’re worse – same with agricultural labor.

          No one gets paid out of employer generosity.

          The economic problems with immigration are the externalities – crime, welfare, medical care paid for by the race tax on whites who show up in hospitals, degeneration of social trust, use of schools and roads and parks, increased demand for land away from bad neighbors, etc. The high end of the market presents different problems – redistribution of status away from people working in fields with immigrant competition, creation of cohesive networks of hostile outsiders , etc.

          • Jan Martense says:

            Microecon 201 is that commodity labor – which plumbing approximates – gets priced at marginal product absent collusion by buyers or sellers.
            If EE plumbers are cheaper, it’s because they’re worse – same with agricultural labor.

            The marginal product (in $) represented by a plumbing job decreases as the supply of plumbers increases. If there’s only one busy plumber in town, a desperate wine mom will be willing to pay an extraordinary amount of money to fix her overflowing toilet. If there are plumbers waiting at her convenience outside the door, she’ll pay much less. So even if the immigrant plumbers are just as skilled, they will still undercut native wages. A neoclassical economist wouldn’t regard this as a problem though.

            From a classical perspective, the only immigration downsides are, as you say, externalities. Which modern economists refuse to recognize.

            • jim says:

              The major externality of immigration of skilled labor is that diversity plus proximity equals war, which is a mighty big downside, which downside becomes visible to those that have eyes to see in companies that employ too many H1Bs.

              As for unskilled labor, the major externality is that they are not coming here to work, but to live on crime, welfare, AFDC from single moms on welfare, and being counted for the census, which apportions seats in the House and the Electoral College.

          • jack boot says:

            [*deleted*]

      • jim says:

        This is approximately what Dubai does – the effect of what Dubai does is similar, in that misbehaving guest workers are a cost to the employer who brought them in. Works great.

      • Pooch says:

        For many low IQ race immigrants, it’s not them but their children who become criminals in as Moldbug points out in his castes piece. Somehow the work ethic that drove them to succeed in America does not translate to their children.

        • Dave says:

          Or maybe the immigrants were exceptionally capable people in their homeland and their children reverted to the mean.

    • Jan Martense says:

      You can make an argument for opening up the job market for foreign doctors or programmers and you can make an argument for closing it down and letting the market generate more doctors and programmers by paying them more. What one cannot argue is to set a quota.

      The thing is, “closed borders” are really just a specific subset of quota: one where net migration is set to zero. Pakistan might artificially set net immigration of doctors at -1000/year, while America artificially sets it at +1000 a year, and if China chooses to artificially set it at the midpoint between those two values, this isn’t any more rational from a classical economics perspective.

      I like your thinking here. But imo a “capitalist” critique of open borders would probably have to proceed from an acknowledgement that population is not a totally fungible resource– something obviously true, but that few mainstream economists currently admit.

      This one huge error is probably the biggest single culprit behind the recent anti-market turn of many rightists. And deservedly so.

      • A negative number is out of question. The basic question of locks is out vs. in. Locking people out of your house or out of your country is completely normal. But locking people *in* a house/prison or country requires a strong justification and most people don’t deserve that. The Soviet style of locking people in the country was seriously shitty. So no negative immigration quotas i.e. emigration quotas. Keeping people who want to move out is super unethical and not even efficient – forced labor was always low quality. No, borders should always be open outwards and the only quetion is inwards.

        • Jan Martense says:

          > So no negative immigration quotas i.e. emigration quotas.

          Sure, we can accept that as a premise. But it still doesn’t address the problem– why, if we accept the modern liberal mindset that workers are fungible, is a “zero” quota special or more rational than any other?

          Note that most countries still have some control of negative net migration even barring emigration numbers. For example, say Poland loses 2000 workers/year to Britain, but gains 1500/year from Ukraine. Its net migration is -500. If it bans immigration from Ukraine, that number falls to -2000. Similarly, if America banned all immigration, its net migration would become negative. Is there a rational justification for Poland to set a net migration quota of -2000 (eg, immigration of 0) as opposed to -500?

          • Not Tom says:

            Zero is a good heuristic when you can’t be sure how much is a problem.

            How many sick people per year should you limit your personal exposure to, in order to avoid getting sick yourself? That number is not actually zero, but it’s sensible to assume it is zero and plan accordingly.

  32. Anonymous says:

    [*deleted*]

  33. Strannik says:

    Wanted to post this here for ”the Cominator”, for his benefit, because I don’t have a ”reply” function on where he posted on the thread. He commented;

    ”I’m 95% pretty sure I know Strannik from another forum… he is NOT eastern european”

    I am from non-first generation east european immigrants to America.

    ” (nor a liberal entryist as his support for Trump is sincere”

    Definitely not a Liberal. My support for Trump is qualified on his support of Christian morality and civic virtue in general. His enemies in this regard are absolute animals.

    ”despite Strannik having somewhat delusional views on economics)”

    I am emotionally attached to Socialism but intellectually and morally realize that Socialist societies doesn’t last very long due to human greed and selfishness, and perverse economic disincentives. And that is what it is. I am also generally opposed to most Socialists on principle due to their Atheism. I won’t have anything to do with a God-Fighter.

    ”but he lived in Russia for a bit and his wife is Russian.”

    Yes. And by heart and heritage I am one. Indeed, they have persuaded me of my qualified support for an ethical Capitalism.

    • Not Tom says:

      Just reply to the parent comment and blockquote him, that’s what we all do.

    • info says:

      Modern capitalism has a lot of parasitism via usury as the Austrian school of economics noted. That’s partly why it isnt doing so well currently.

      Fractional reserve banking and the current Federal reserve are the problems.

      • Strannik says:

        Well, I think that the problems of modern Capitalism certainly involve Usury, that and a non-metallic money supply, fiat money that can be expanded or contracted at will. And, while it may well be for myself that I find Socialism to be ultimately unable to exist for human beings as they are in this world, I in my darker moments think the same of Capitalism. That is, while the critique of Capitalism might be true, there is no cure for It given fallen human nature.

        • Info says:

          This is why I favor a debt jubilee cycle every 7 years. It minimizes usury and the problems inherent as capitalism is currently existing in the west.

        • info says:

          Biblical jubilees is worth looking into. And I believe is a good solution to impossible debts.

          • jim says:

            The Hebrew Jubilee gets spun by commies.

            Its objective was to bind a nomadic people to the land, not give the poor free money.

            The old Christian position on usury, which allows interest bearing debts against property that creates value, but not against people, was sound. But again, not free money for poor people.

            • Not Tom says:

              I actually interpret it as a primitive sort of prohibition on maturity transformation. There isn’t a large market for 30 year loans; sure there are potential borrowers, but no or very few sincere or legitimate lenders. Any loan of such extreme duration is probably dishonest and possibly usurious in nature, so better to ban the practice entirely by declaring it null and void after a much shorter period.

              The Christian tradition is better at solving the usury problem. But if you view MT as inherently destructive, as I do, and as Moldbug and the Austrians do, then the Hebrew tradition is also pretty interesting.

              If you offer to loan me money for 20 years, I should assume you’re running some sort of grift. I wouldn’t mind making that heuristic official.

            • info says:

              Not Tom explains it better.

      • The Cominator says:

        The problem of debt with our current system is that the currency is based on debt.

        I know Lincoln has few fans here but Lincoln was absolutely right about fiat currency, if you are going to have fiat currency make it fiat for real. Don’t base it on debt, base it on the fact that you need the currency to pay taxes.

        Abolish the Fed note and bring back the Greenback.

        • jim says:

          Bitcoin demonstrates that a currency can rest on thin air. Currency, even gold, is always a bubble that never bursts, a shared delusion that we imagine into real existence, because it is the one case where it is rational to value an item solely on other people valuing it.

          Having cheerfully abandoned any foundations, and sailing forth on a sea of purely speculative value, one then asks what stops people from issuing unlimited amounts of the currency, a chronic problem with fiat.

          Bitcoin has no end of serious flaws, but none are inherent in the basic concept, and I think it likely that blockchain based settlement and blockchain currency is going to replace fiat.

          A huge problem with bitcoin is the blood diamonds problem – that it is possible to declare some bitcoins tainted, which is how they shut down the use of uncut diamonds to bypass currency controls. Monaro is designed to resist the blood diamonds attack, but it is not scalable.

          Sooner or later, bitcoin is going to be subjected to the blood diamonds attack, which I think will kill it as it killed uncut diamonds. We are going to need a scalable blockchain based crypto currency resistant to that attack.

          • The Cominator says:

            If the government is run by commies will have unlimited inflation with greenbacks but this isnt a real problem as commies will kill the economy anyway inflation or not.

            If not run by commies you will get steady inflation… Steady inflation of the currency is IMHO a good thing. Currency is meant to flow to investments not be hoarded, people can buy things if they want to hoard.

            • Not Tom says:

              Currency is literally meant to be hoarded, that’s why currency was invented (independently in hundreds of geographic regions and historical eras). The fact that people want to hoard it is what makes it valuable as a currency.

              Whether people intrinsically want to hoard it or whether they hoard because the state declares it to be money – well, that seems to matter slightly less than Austrian economics suggests that it should.

              But if it’s economically unsound to hoard money, then it’s not really money at all. If the average person no longer wants to hold onto their money and avoid spending it, that implies hyperinflation, or debasement, or something else that’s very very wrong with it.

              Investing is done to earn more money, just like working, but more efficient if you already have a lot and are good at predicting future capital flows. But for most people, for the average person, the best strategy should be to just collect and hoard money. The vast amounts of capital flowing into 401k “investments” and similar instruments are a sign of economic sickness, not health. It means no one really trusts the currency anymore.

            • Dave says:

              If currency isn’t a good store of value, it eventually stops being a unit of account and medium of exchange too, as people become ever more eager to spend it quick before it loses more value. The idea that monetary velocity and prices must never decrease is Keynesian hogwash.

              Hoarding gold, Bitcoin, or stocks as a hedge against the “steady inflation” of central bankers is relatively harmless. Hoarding real estate is very bad because it forces young people to stay with their parents or live in tiny capsule apartments, leading to Japanification and eventual extinction.

              • The Cominator says:

                Real estate values are inflated because the government allows more leverage to be used to buy real estate then it allows for innearly anything else. Otherwise not a good hoarding asset because not very liquid.

                • Not Tom says:

                  Real estate values are inflated because the government allows more leverage to be used to buy real estate then it allows for innearly anything else.

                  Because of maturity transformation.

                  Nobody would be willing to loan to the banks at the same rate and term that they loan out for mortgages. So how can the banks do it? They have to lie, take your zero-term deposits and lock them up for 30 years. That is why they can provide such insane leverage – because they pay next to no interest themselves, the whole transaction costs them practically nothing.

                  Cure the disease, and the symptoms will go away.

  34. What? says:

    1. Not everything is a progressive conspiracy, it is greed that moved the jobs overseas and hollowed out America. If the words neo-liberalism bother you then you shouldn’t have let the left brand it as such. Amazon is a progressive conspiracy and you want to give them tanks and warplanes because your worship money.
    2. Wignats are people that need leadership, something you will never do. Hitler whipped Germany into shape while you let your people rot and then proceed to mock them. Maybe Germans are just better people than the Anglo peoples, probably. The current strategy of mocking and leaving the wignats to rot isn’t working is it?
    3. “But we need REAL capitalism / free markets / whatever term will satisfy your autism!” You guys sound like commies in 1991 trying to figure out why the Soviet Union failed. “But REAL communism has never been tried!” Keep dreaming.
    4. The progressives around 1900 had an insane idea of having one corporation run the entire economy, Amazon is heading this way and that is why I call it a progressive conspiracy.
    5. https://imgur.com/a/BEushfK that image sums it all up. I’m done and goodbye.

    • The Cominator says:

      “Wignats are people that need leadership”

      Wignats are not tall enough for this ride.

      You can’t do anything with people who think that all considerations of optics, tactics and realism is some sort of weakness and furthermore are generally very stupid not much smarter in general than the nigs they hate.

      The salvagable part of the wignats have been salvaged, the stubborn holdouts cannot be saved. Hitler had to shoot his own wignats in 1934.

      • jim says:

        > The salvagable part of the wignats have been salvaged,

        They are still coming on board. Our ideas are penetrating. Wingnatism is converging to reaction and neoreaction.

        • Not Tom says:

          Perhaps. But since this particular guy keeps writing new replies and refusing to engage with the old ones, I’m leaning toward either shill or stupid (or both). He won’t directly answer your questions, just spews nonsense, walks away, comes back and spews more nonsense. If that is representative of real wignats, then they won’t be persuaded by words, and engaging directly with them is pointless.

          I honestly think this might be the same guy as Jatt Atwal. Same temperament and posting habits, at least – talks down to us as though he’s higher status but gives us neither evidence nor any reason to care. And starts new threads instead of debating.

          • jim says:

            “What?” appears to be a genuine wingnat, but his socialism is internationalist communist descended (“bourgeoisie”, “neoliberal”) not national socialist descended.

            Spencer’s socialism on the other hand is national socialist descended, and he is OK.

  35. stategovAnon says:

    looks like impeachment has shown fault lines of balkanized us.
    dems can’t choose a candidate, so they make a caucus unable to do so.

    • jim says:

      Results of the Iowa Democratic Caucus are delayed pending discovery of unopened boxes of ballots. The vote counting app committed suicide by shooting itself in the back of the head twice and then hanging itself from a prison bed at knee level.

      • The Cominator says:

        DNC rigging it against Bernie again (because Bernie being an old school red will confiscate the cathedral elite’s wealth too) but they botched it spectacularly in a way that is great for Trump.

        Apparently it gets even better the faggot who “won” the caucus (the DNC sure knows how to pick em, they picked a faggot with the word “butt” in his name) apparently was directly connected to selecting and adminstering the vote rigging app

        AND Bernie apparently suspecting the Mensheviks in the Democrat party were planning to screw over his Bolshevik ass sent lawyers to all the caucus sites to record the actual tallies… which will make it extra beautiful when he gets screwed over.

        Trump will win bigger than I thought.

        • jim says:

          Trump is planning to run against Bernie Sanders so I would not be surprised if Bernie got a heads up from praetorians in presidential security loyal to Trump. The app team were supposed to rig the outcome for Biden, but the males in the app team look gay, so are likely literally and metaphorically in bed with Boot-Edge-Edge.

          This chaos is analogous to the chaos that followed the Gracchi violating term limits in the Roman Republic.

        • Not Tom says:

          the DNC sure knows how to pick em, they picked a faggot with the word “butt” in his name

          They actually do know how to pick em, as despite all of that, he’s the only one who could really give Trump any serious competition in the general. A lot of that is just because he’s an unknown quantity, but he comes across as a moderate.

          Problem is, the guys who are supposed to do the picking aren’t doing the picking anymore. Or at least aren’t doing it unopposed.

          • Pooch says:

            He’s a pretty well polished politician as well in the same vein of Obama. There’s no glaring vulnerability to him except homosexuality that I doubt Trump would attack openly. I want to face him the least as well.

          • Omar is just a Trump card now. says:

            > [Buttigieg is] the only one who could really give Trump any serious competition

            Surely you jest. He is a laughingstock, a boyish wonk worse than Dukakis only gay, who would make a laughingstock out of the United States if elected, and this is not lost on the public. Just because Trump would politely ignore the pink elephant in the room (while ruthlessly crushing the Mayor of Bend South in every other way) doesn’t mean the voters will do so in the privacy of the voting booth.

            The only Democratic candidates who could touch Trump are Warren and Bloomberg. Both of them have huge issues with their platforms and persons, but Bloomberg (unlike Warren) has several advantages that neutralize some of Trump’s big strengths. The DNC will probably try to engineer Bloomberg as the nominee in exchange for fleecing him of a couple billion dollars to rebuild the party and fund their entire 2020 slate of candidates; but he isn’t well liked and has little time to renovate his image even with the whole MSM behind him. Bernie and the others will brand him a carpetbagger buying the nomination, an ersatz Trump within the DNC, which would obviously correspond to the actual state of affairs and destroy the votes that Bloomberg needs to have any legitimacy.

            The blatant shenanigans of the DNC are *great* for Trump, a titanic gift from God. Bernie being election-frauded right out of the gate for all to see, and the imminent “election interference” on behalf of Bloomberg will be a warning sign to all sentient Americans that the Democrats cannot be trusted with the integrity of the 2020 general election. Since the MSM says that Trump also cannot be trusted, because Russia, the obvious solution is to monitor everything everywhere election related, which would place too many eyeballs in too many places for the Soros secretaries of state to do what they were installed to do.

            The disintegration of the DNC will accelerate spectacularly over the next year. Interesting times, for them.

            • Mister Grumpus says:

              When will hand-counted paper ballots become a voting rights issue, and on both sides of the political spectrum no less?

              That’s what I’d call progress. No More Apps. No More Apps.

            • Not Tom says:

              No, I don’t jest. Read the polls. They overstate Democrat support in general, of course, but they don’t lie about the relative rankings.

              Elizabeth Warren? Not even close. Bloomberg polls awful with blacks as well. You’re projecting your personal opinions about these candidates onto others, not looking at the facts.

              I doubt any of them could actually come close to Trump now, because the party has truly splintered. About 20-30% of voters say they won’t vote for anyone except their preferred candidate, and that preference is split 3 ways, meaning 10-15% of the Dem vote is just lost. But in terms of who could actually pull votes from moderates – not partisan Democrats – that’s really just Buttboy.

              • jim says:

                They also lie about relative rankings, since voting against a sodomite is almost as disreputable as supporting Trump

                • Not Tom says:

                  Those polls are generally consistent with the actual votes, so I have no reason to doubt either.

                  You don’t have to like Buttboy. I sure as hell don’t, he’s 100% pure Astroturf. But he’s got the name recognition, whether he earned it or not, and is perceived as a moderate, whether sincere or not (probably not). His black support isn’t great, nowhere near Biden’s, because black Democrats oppose sodomy more than white Republicans, but it’s still not as bad as Warren’s.

                  That’s important to keep in mind: maybe white liberals can be shamed into supporting a homosexual, but not blacks. They are already higher on the intersectional totem pole.

                  Democracy is cancer, the Democratic party is in disarray, and none of these candidates are likely to pose a serious challenge to Trump. But if we ignore all that and ask who has the best odds out of all the terrible candidates, it’s Butt. He’s the Mitt Romney of Democrats, a reliable establishment type.

                • Pooch says:

                  He’s also young and a good speaker which plays well for him in the debates on tv. His black support is relatively weak (as is for all non-Biden candidates) so Trumps strategy may likely target the black vote a bit more, ironically. Maybe why Trump mentioned African American like 50 times in his speech last night.

              • Omar is just a Trump card now. says:

                The DNC has no way of beating Trump and knows it cannot beat Trump, so the relevant question is what other objectives they hope to achieve.

                Bloomberg provides a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for the DNC leadership to make a billion dollars or so disappear into its pockets, win or lose, while salvaging (with additional Mike money) what they can of the Congressional races, and crushing or excising the Bernie/AoC overt socialist wing for the foreseeable future. If Mike is willing to be generous, they will take that deal in a nanosecond, not only for the billion dollars but because the alternative is total collapse under Trump’s chariot wheels.

                Warren is rather hypothetical since she lacks the billions. Her support seems low to you because Biden is still, on paper, in the race. She is the likeliest to benefit from his imminent demise. I do not believe any poll that has Mayor Sodom “on top”, and even if true he has insurmountable weaknesses for the general.

                Blacks are a non-issue in the general election. A considerable fraction of black men will go Trump and the remaining blacks will be hardcore robotic Democrat voters who will vote a straight (ahem) ticket as always whether it is Bloomberg or anyone else. Large differences in black support could swing the primaries but the DNC can engineer whoever they want for the good of themselves or the party. Fewer blacks would turn out if Buttigieg is the nominee.

                • Mister Grumpus says:

                  “Let’s not all start sucking each other’s dicks just yet.”

                  There are all kinds of dirty tricks, Hail Mary’s, and color revolutionary shenanigans that they can try between now and November. All kinds. Anyone who thinks they’ll just lay down now is the least imaginative simpleton on earth.

                  They may not even be trying to prevent or win a federal-level election anymore, per se, but rather be each following his own instinctive need to out-signal and out-run his own-side mob of status-salvaging and lifeboat-mobbing fellow sore losers. Running with Pol Pot is fucking dangerous, and the danger is strictly own-side.

                  Remember that “Ha-ha Trump’s rednekks sure R dumb” “U-crane” skit on cable news? The white liberals are especially desperate to get as far leftward of the lions as humanly possible, and who knows what they’ll come up with next.

                  Like what?

                  Well for example, just last week I was one of those people who suspected that the Wuhan Virus situation was a false-flag kicked off by nefarious non-Chinese (or nefarious Chinese-Chinese?) to kick up chaos and get them to fight us.

                  I’m not one of those people today (what a relief) but that’s not the point. The point is that I, for one, had never even imagined a play like that. The concept itself caught me by surprise, like just as an idea. Which means there are all kinds of other plays I haven’t imagined either.

                  So look I admire (some of) you guys, but don’t give me this cotton candy about it already being over. Rather, start thinking about what these terrified bloodthirsty freaks might try next.

                • Omar is just a Trump card now. says:

                  They seem to do an awful lot of literal slavish repetition of the same plays, which suggests that improvising new approaches in real time is difficult. What’s changing is that the plays are ever more open and notorious, as if they want you to see it and be all the more cowed. Or that the competence and asabiyah needed to do things quietly is severely eroded.

                • Not Tom says:

                  Her support seems low to you because Biden is still, on paper, in the race.

                  No, her support seems low to me because all of the pundits, liberals, progressives and Dem partisans in general that I know all hate her. And I know a whole hell of a lot of them.

                  The one group she’s semi popular with? Tech elites. That’s it. And she’s not very popular with them either, just more popular than Sanders. She has zero mainstream appeal. Progressives consider her a liar, liberals consider her a nobody, moderates consider her to be abrasive and generally unlikable, and Republicans consider her to be woke garbage, a slightly less ghastly version of Hillary.

                  Nobody really cares that Buttigieg is a butt pirate, except blacks and religious Republicans. I understand that you care about that; I care about that, and all reactionaries should care about that. But normie whites don’t care. The groups who do care are not a small bloc, but still much smaller than the blocs that hate Sanders, Warren, and Bloomberg.

                  The DNC would have a lot of things to gain by nominating Bloomberg and letting him run, but winning the general election isn’t one of them, even after discounting for the low odds of any Democrat winning against Trump.

                • jim says:

                  > But normie whites don’t care.

                  You will be surprised.

                  It is forbidden to admit, or even to know, that you care. This makes assessment of what normies really think highly unreliable.

                  The normie opinion of gays is exactly the black opinion of gays. It is just that gays, being higher on the status pole, can know what they think and say what they think.

                  Similarly, people think they care deeply about “pedophilia”, but actually they do not care about older men having sex with fertile age females.

                • The Cominator says:

                  You are wrong about blacks their turnout is critical for dems and they wont vote for Butt pirate.

                • Not Tom says:

                  You are wrong about blacks their turnout is critical for dems and they wont vote for Butt pirate.

                  His viability doesn’t come from the partisan Democrat voters, it comes from the moderate (cuck) independent and Republican and Never Trumper voters. Mitt Romney voters would vote for Buttigieg and probably Biden. They will not vote for Bernie Sanders and are very unlikely to vote for Warren.

                  Dems can’t win general elections on partisan voting alone, they don’t have the numbers. They need at least some white men to vote for them too. Even 5% of white men compensates for a 50% drop in black turnout. Trump won because Democrats lost too much of the white male vote, too soon, or alternatively Trump reanimated the white male vote that had given up after the Late Obama Age Collapse.

                  Either way, these voters are still willing to vote for moderate Dems, and we know that because they still do vote for moderate Dems, it’s just that there aren’t many moderate Dems left.

                  Make whatever claims you want about preference falsification, but if that logic were correct, it would also have applied to Obama, and it didn’t. No one “really” wanted a mulatto president either – who was almost certainly gay himself. So either the preference falsification isn’t that significant, or it’s so significant that it actually affects the votes themselves.

                • jim says:

                  Make whatever claims you want about preference falsification, but if that logic were correct, it would also have applied to Obama, and it didn’t. No one “really” wanted a mulatto president either – who was almost certainly gay himself.

                  Obama the redeemer promised that we would be washed clean of the sin of racism.

                  We weren’t.

                  If BootyEdgeEdge promises to wash us clean of the sin of homophobia, I doubt he will get a receptive audience.

                • jack boot says:

                  peter thiel is proud to be a butt pirate at rnc and you love him and the crowd roared.

                  and then there are all these anal loving actors musicians and comedians

                  i don’t thick normies care.

                • jim says:

                  Butt pirates are politically useful, because the left cannot cry racist/sexist, but no one trusts them or likes them.

                  When we are in power, we should purge them because treacherous and unreliable, but Peter Thiel and Milo have been mighty valuable to us.

                • Omar is just a Trump card now. says:

                  Not Tom, do you live in San Francisco, or a place where “San Francisco” and “Massachusetts” are not used as pejoratives?

                  The poll numbers are cooked and Iowa democratic caucuses are votes by social persuasion, not secret ballot, so we don’t get to see what people actually think.

                  Mayor Peter as a serious candidate with national appeal is a blatant MSM construct, no different than if they had fixated on Yang or some other lost cause as their pet. There are a lot more homosexual than Sinophile journalists, so gay it is. He won a few thousand votes to be mayor of a mid-sized town, fucked that up, was correctly labelled as Alfred E Neuman by Trump, and otherwise has done nothing much except be a Harvardized NPC who (unlike other less entitled gay politicians) can’t help but shove gayness in everyone’s face. Barney Frank is an irritating schmuck but he did not push “his husband” on the world, declare that his ancestral religion must subordinate itself to Gay, or try to run for POTUS. Buttigieg’s role is to be the story hour drag queen, the center of a humiliating re-education ritual inflicted on the public so Gay Journalist can feel how good and holy it is to do the inflicting. OPEN WIDE.

                  Some people are more cucked and programmable than others, but enough feel the disgust at this gavage (much more than the gay-ness per se) whether or not they can verbalize it or admit it. I read Buttigieg’s candidacy as a cynical psyop where the unlikely event of actually winning the presidency is just a potential bonus, the raffle ticket that goes with the church sermon, but is not the primary purpose. Buttigieg is lubricating the Overton sphincter, as it were.

                • The Cominator says:

                  “His viability doesn’t come from the partisan Democrat voters, it comes from the moderate (cuck) independent and Republican and Never Trumper voters. Mitt Romney voters would vote for Buttigieg and probably Biden. They will not vote for Bernie Sanders and are very unlikely to vote for Warren.”

                  They need blacks too, the cucks are not enough without them as they had more cucks in 2016 then they will in 2020 so hes doomed too.

                • Not Tom says:

                  Not Tom, do you live in San Francisco, or a place where “San Francisco” and “Massachusetts” are not used as pejoratives?

                  Asking me to self-dox? Nope.

                  The poll numbers are cooked and Iowa democratic caucuses are votes by social persuasion, not secret ballot, so we don’t get to see what people actually think.

                  Neither the poll numbers or local groupthink factor into my analysis. The progs I know don’t particularly care for Buttigieg – but they’d still vote for him in the general. Polls change constantly. What matters, more than some reactionaries like to admit, is the platform. He is running on a moderate platform. No doubt he’d break hard to the left if elected, but squishy moderates still believe what candidates promise them, as long as they haven’t already destroyed their own credibility like Warren did.

                  Mayor Peter as a serious candidate with national appeal is a blatant MSM construct

                  Yep. He is. And like so many media constructs, people will believe it if there’s no strong opposing narrative.

                  was correctly labelled as Alfred E Neuman by Trump

                  He was? My observation has been that Trump has largely ignored him, which is what you do when you don’t want to raise someone’s profile (compared to e.g. AOC and Tulsi Gabbard, whom he boosts in different ways and for different reasons). I’d be curious to find out if Trump hasn’t marginalized him as much as I’d assumed.

                  …has done nothing much except be a Harvardized NPC

                  AKA, the perfect Democrat.

                  Buttigieg is lubricating the Overton sphincter, as it were.

                  Also likely. I view that as the potatoes, not the meat.

                • Omar is just a Trump card now. says:

                  So much for the theory of Buttigieg as the DNC anointee. He could certainly be standing down on DNC orders, in exchange for a promise of later reward. As stated above I see Mayor Sodom as a psyop not a serious candidate (at least from his backers’ point of view).

                  The logic still points to Warren or Bloomberg as the DNC candidate, with Biden’s family blackmailing the party for one last payoff-to-end-all-payoffs in exchange for getting him off the stage. Bernie doesn’t have enough votes to do a Trump 2016-style hostile takeover of the party and his “frontrunner” status is illusory due to having many similar opponents fragmenting the vote. As the field consolidates his stock will drop, the question is how fast can the DNC force Biden out before Bernie builds an insurmountable lead, and what sort of spectacular Godfather level of negotations are going on behind the scenes. It’s like everyone involved (other than Bloomberg) has an angle to squeeze 9 figure sums of money from the rest if they play the cards right.

                • The Cominator says:

                  Probable DNC plan is to use senile old fool Biden as a ringer to screw Bernie.

                  Moochelle Obama will be the nominee at a brokered convention, butt pirate will be the VP. Bloomsperg will be promises secretary of state or something.

                  Moochelle (she won’t beat Trump but this is likely the plan) will likely shortly after taking office resign “for reasons of helath” or something and the Manchurian candidate (Buttigieg’s background is the most sinister thing you can imagine far worse than Bernie) then becomes president.

                • jim says:

                  The Democrats are incohesive and disorganized. No one is in charge, and the oligarchs are under real threat from both Trump’s national capitalism and Bernie’s borderless socialism.

                  They do not have a plan, or rather have far too many plans.

                  The left’s normal reaction to such internal leftwing chaos is to line up behind the leftmost, and murder those who do not line up. Which would mean uniting behind Bernie. But even if they managed unity, Bernie is simply incompetent.

                  The left has to move leftwards as a shark has to swim – but the only direction leftwards on offer is race war now, which the lily white Democrat party is none to keen on. Bernie found himself at the top by offering a leftwards direction other than race war now. Instead of race war now, Venezuela now.

                  To stop Bernie, they have to steal the nomination from him – but in order to steal the nomination from him, they have to agree on whom the beneficiary of the theft is going to be.

                • Pooch says:

                  The DNC is very clearly colascing around Biden to try to defeat Bernie.

                • The Cominator says:

                  but in order to steal the nomination from him, they have to agree on whom the beneficiary of the theft is going to be.

                  I think as far as top Democrat decision making they have more stable command and control then you think. But their followers are absolutely unruly and hard to control.

                  Between a visibly senile old white guy, an incompetent jewish white guy the party elite hates because he is too honest about the agenda, an autistic billionaire trying to buy the nomination who the democrat party rank and file really hates the logical choice is Moochelle with the idea that they can sell her to the Democrats as a stand-in for Obama (who was an empty suit anyway) and who if she doesn’t want the job (she doesn’t) can just resign in favor of John Brennan’s favorite communist fudgepacker.

                  Consensus will be for moochelle, with the Cathedral’s inner circle who control the DNC, Deep State, CIA and media (though not the Democrat rank and file) getting their preferred man mayor butt pirate via a quick resgination. Of course it won’t work because Trump is going to win but Moochelle is going to be harder than it would be with Biden or Bernie.

                • The Cominator says:

                  The DNC is very clearly colascing around Biden to try to defeat Bernie.

                  But as a ringer for a brokered convention, not as the nominee. Biden can barely remember his fucking name at this point, the Democrats are insane but in different ways then to make them think that is a good idea their party elite who are using him to screw Bernie know he will be almost as much of a downballot disaster as Bernie (maybe worse given how angry the commie berniebros are going to be). Moochelle is the most logical choice for them at the convention. She can do as her husband did read a teleprompter get debate answers through an earpiece and then just plan to resign.

                • Pooch says:

                  Michelle will run in 2024 as President. After Biden’s dominating win in SC with high black turnout they are hoping to rebuild the Obama coalition. A Biden-Kamala Harris is likely. At a brokered convention they will have the delegates nominate the Biden ticket over Bernie. Things get interesting Bernie has a majority but not a plurality in which case he can threaten to run 3rd party.

                • The Cominator says:

                  Biden’s problem is not with the black vote its with the white democrat vote and centrist suburbanite impulse voters who are not going to vote for somebody that visibly senile even if they don’t like Trump. His running mate in the unlikely chance he is not ditched at the convention won’t be Harris for that reason.

                  Harris may be black but because she was outed by Tulsi as a crooked prosecutor (blacks really hate crooked prosecutors and cops) she is not going to help with the black vote and in fact will likely massively hurt with it.

                • Omar is just a Trump card now. says:

                  Other than Obama himself (who, even if there is no constitutional barrier to his candidacy, would be trounced by Trump), there is no electable paladin who can credibly swoop in as a deus ex machina at the convention.

                  Michelle is a nobody. Her performance against Trump would be an embarrassment that sets the idea of an ADOS black president back into pie-in-the-sky territory. The Democrats are stuck with a probably nonrecoverable disaster as their party disintegrates under the leftward pull of Bernie’s Soros soldiers and Cthulhu’s tentacles. Only a billion or two of Bloomberg money, if he gives it to them, can save them for the downballot races and 2022-24 elections. Otherwise they are being drawn and quartered by the permanent realignment and will schism or collapse while keeping the brand name “Democrats”.

                  The Obama coalition, in donors and internal powerbroker support, is essentially Warren which is why she has survived this long, and she is the logical vessel for the 2016 white female Hilary voters. If only she could stop proving her own unpopularity at every primary (i.e., get Biden out of the race to take his white votes), she could make a go of it. Her only strategy is to wait for Joe or Mike to crash and have the saner parts of the DNC come to her aid at the convention.

                  Bloomberg, were he likable and not a China shill, would have been the necessary paladin. The DNC is insolvent and on the ropes, so he can be their financial savior in exchange for other things down the road, but the DNC is no longer agreement capable. The entryists have taken over too much of the lower rungs of the party for the higher ups to be able to make credible promises.

          • The Cominator says:

            “They actually do know how to pick em, as despite all of that, he’s the only one who could really give Trump any serious competition in the general.”

            Tulsi Gabbard was the only one who had a chance at all. I know we all have a generally low opinion of women in politics but she was BY FAR their strongest candidate in part because a lot of Trump supporters can’t help but like her and most people outside the swamp sympathize with her uncompromising zeal to leave the Middle East entirely (something Trump also wants to do but compromised upon because in the Democrat zeal to destroy him he needed the neocons). Shes also not corrupt and most Trump supporters don’t get the feeling that she is going to either have us all killed if she wins or allow the Democratic party to do so. She is merely deluded on economics.

            But Trump is not going to have any trouble with some empty suited butt pirate who the nigs won’t vote for no matter what.

            And no Fauxahontas and Mini Mike were not viable either. Mini Mike despite theoretically being a highly intelligent man in some ways (a jewish electrical engineer who got monstorously rich via inventing a new financial information system) he can’t help having a particulary obnoxious personality.

            Mini mike thinks its a good idea constantly advertising (he advertises here in Florida nonstop) that he shut down coal plants and is going to take your guns.

            • Not Tom says:

              Tulsi Gabbard was the only one who had a chance at all.

              As with the guy above, you are either projecting your own opinions or listening to people on the fringes. Tulsi would indeed probably be the least destructive of the Dem candidates if elected, and her takedown of Kamala was epic, but she has never polled above a few percentage points. No name recognition, no chance.

              • The Cominator says:

                She never had a chance at the nomination, but she would have been the only one with any chance against Trump in the general election.

                Buttigieg has none. Democrats need high black turnout and nigs don’t want to vote for a white faggot.

                • Not Tom says:

                  Blacks hate Warren more than they hate Buttigieg, by a considerable margin, and Warren is creepy and fake to all races. She did have a chance at the nomination, at one point, but blew it after the debates and the impeachment circus (which also took her off the campaign trail). She never had a chance at the general. You’ve got this exactly backwards.

                • The Cominator says:

                  Wasn’t talking about Fauxahontas who obviously had no chance against Trump i was talking about Gabbard.

            • Omar is just a Trump card now. says:

              > Fauxahontas and Mini Mike were not viable either

              Both are genuine success stories who did not come from wealth. Warren is a grandmother who, before she miscalculated and went off the leftist deep end with tranny pronouns, wrote books with policy prescriptions that Tucker Carlson has promoted as sensible bread-and-butter family economics stuff that Republicans neglect at their peril. A lot of the Hillary voters and Obama donors align with her, she will pick up Biden’s support without too much trouble when Joe is gone and she is the natural candidate for all the Democrats who want a do-over of the 2016 election.

              Mike has similarly harmed himself, above all with his servile comments on China just before he changed his mind about running for office.

              But those are recoverable problems, unlike Biden’s senility and the gay zero-ness of Buttigieg. The Democrat vote will be an anti Trump vote. Trump didn’t win by being likeable and the Democrat voters will probably disregard personality in trying to unseat him.

              All the Dem candidates are very far from being able to beat Trump but Warren and Bloomberg seem to me by far in the best position to rally the opposition against him. Bloomberg more so with his unlimited budget and his personality troubles “fixed” and obscured by the 24/7 MSM spin.

              • The Cominator says:

                Warren is not even all that well liked in Massachussetts she might have been good at being a shyster lawyer but she isn’t a very good politician nor is Bloomberg despite being a tremendous success financially.

                Trump otoh is a very good politician. They have no chance against him. Bloomberg in fact REALLY has no chance because he is honest about his tremendously unpopular agenda of massively expanding the nanny state for your own good of course and disarming everyone (and he advertises this in Florida… where everyone including the smiling ditzy broad at the coffee shop has 5 guns).

                • Omar is just a Trump card now. says:

                  I had the misfortune of meeting Warren many years ago, and later on of hearing her lecture, so I understand your point.

  36. Pooch says:

    General Question:

    Is Neoreaction/Dark Enlightenment fascism? If not, what is the difference? Reading the wikipedia definition I don’t see a ton of differences. I’m not using fascism in a negative context to be clear.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

    • Mike says:

      Your first mistake was reading the Wikipedia definition, and not reading how its been articulated by Moldbug, Jim, Spandrell, Parallax Optics, Aidan MacClear, and others who actually call themselves the term.

      Read this article that the Dividualist posted above: https://carlsbad1819.wordpress.com/2017/03/24/reading-some-actual-nazis/

    • Ex says:

      The wikipedia definition is indeed terrible.

      > …characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

      That’s a better fit for Soviet Russia than for Fascist Spain.

      But even taking these alleged characteristics as given, let’s consider them –

      1. “dictatorial” is a slur. Neoreaction believes that democracy is mostly fake: you either have a recognized ruling class, or an unrecognized ruling class. If the people in a “democracy” want one thing, for example, less immigration, and the ruling class wants another, the ruling class consistently gets its way and the people don’t. Recognize the ruling class and identify the ruler, it’s more honest.

      2. False premise. Neoreaction is to a great extent about abolishing the implicitly totalitarian mindset that drives ideas like an internal “opposition”. My father does not have an opposition in his family trying to vote for a new father. The store where I buy my sausages does not have an opposition trying to turn it into a vegan store. The company where I work does not have an opposition. This blog does not have an opposition. Several of these may have _enemies_, but not the political class of opposition.

      The notion of an “opposition” assumes a democracy-style state of ongoing jockeying for unstable leadership. Neoreaction is not democratic.

      To the extent there is violent rebellion against the ruler, of course, Neoreaction believes in forcibly suppressing that, like every functional theory of government does.

      3. Neoreactionaries do not believe in strong regimentation of society and the economy. People will mostly regiment themselves and each other if the government does not actively fuck them up. This is not libertarianism – the neoreactionary government sets a healthy frame – but it is certainly not the ongoing regulatory frenzy that most Western governments get up to.
      (Really, it’s some bloody cheek for the writers to accuse anyone else of ‘strong regimentation’.)

      Marriage, for example, was around before the US. But the US government has regimented things to functionally abolish marriage. Any marriages you see in the US are running on habit and social inertia, not law. In the US, you are forbidden to bind yourself to a marriage. The state can, will, and does void marital promises and contracts you may have made. As seen in the infamous _Diosdado_ case, the judge will claim to be defending the sanctity of marriage even as he orders a unilateral no-fault divorce to protect an adulterer.

      • jim says:

        > 2. False premise. Neoreaction is to a great extent about abolishing the implicitly totalitarian mindset that drives ideas like an internal “opposition”. My father does not have an opposition in his family trying to vote for a new father. The store where I buy my sausages does not have an opposition trying to turn it into a vegan store. The company where I work does not have an opposition. This blog does not have an opposition. Several of these may have _enemies_, but not the political class of opposition.

        This excellent comment references the neoreactionary idea of subsidarity. The Nazi state replaced the father in his family, and the businessman in the sausage shop. The union was nazified, but the boss could no longer fire the unionized workers if they did not do what he told them. The union boss could, however, have the workers beaten up if they did not do what the union boss told them. And, of course, the union boss did not in fact understand how to run the business.

        The core of neoreaction is that the father is the head of the family, and the priest of his family, priest and King, and the King of the land still has to knock on the door of the peasant’s hovel and wait for the King of the hovel to open the door for him. And if the dog of the hovel threatens the King of the land, the King of the land has to wait quietly outside the peasant’s gate for the King of the hovel to tell the dog to cut it out.

        The property rights of the merchant class have to be secure, including unlimited authority to throw out the problem customer and the problem worker, in order that they be free to create value.

        Merchants need property rights extending over distance and time, property rights in contracts, and this necessarily gets more complicated, messy, and more subject to state regulation, which leads to more priestly involvement in merchant affairs, which leads to the priesthood getting out of the sovereign’s control. This is not only a threat to the merchant class, as Trump regularly and colorfully complains when addressing an audience of businessmen, but a threat to the power of the Sovereign. And King Louis XVI of France died of that threat.

        The Sovereign therefore needs to keep the unavoidable priestly meddling in merchant affairs on a tight leash, the tightest leash possible, not only for Trump’s reason that merchants need freedom to create value, but also to prevent his priestly servants from acquiring dangerously great power, the power that proved fatal to King Louis XVI of France.

        • Pooch says:

          Perhaps this is what “What?” is getting at above, but how does Reaction address the fact that the businessman wants to hire brown migrants to work in the sausage shop to do the same job a white man does for half the cost regardless of the negative effect that has on society. Or better yet outsource the entire sausage shop to India for half of that cost. To him that is good for business.

          In the Restoration period of England this was not a problem. Today it is and I’d imagine national socialism is better equipped to handle that problem which seems to be one of the points the national socialist above is trying to make.

          • Ex says:

            Depends on several factors.

            But at a first guess, it seems likely that the kind of brown migrant willing to work for half wage is the kind of brown migrant that will swiftly be arrested for street shitting or petty theft in a reactionary state, and the outsourcing to India is half cost because the regulatory state doubles the cost of hiring a native worker.

            With that said, tariffs to maintain home industrial base and home employment are one of the things several neoreactionaries have considered as a socially useful measure for a state. The US govt was funded by tariffs before it had an income tax. Tariffs (especially flat, global tariffs) are a potential example of a healthy frame that points the market in a direction without micromanaging it.

            • jim says:

              Pretty sure that H1Bs hired to write software are not the ones shitting in the streets of San Francisco.

              The problem with the H1Bs hired to write software is that diversity plus proximity equals war. When you get a critical mass of H1Bs, first they coordinate to remove the remaining white engineers, and also coordinate to disempower the white management. Wherupon it becomes apparent that their management is even worse than their software, and the company goes down the tubes, Informix being a good example of this process.

              • Pooch says:

                You’ve identified the problem. Capitalists want mass immigration even though it’s bad for the nation state. You have not identified the solution.

                Always having a strong leader like Trump that tells the capitalists to fuck off?

                • jim says:

                  Capitalists want mass immigration of productive people. That is not what we are getting, so you cannot blame capitalists for the current problem. H1Bs are a problem, but if you walk the streets of San Francisco, it becomes glaringly obvious that even for engineers, they are not the big problem.

                  People like José Inez García Zárate, the judges that allowed him to stay, and the jury that acquitted him are the big problem. It was not capitalists that brought him in, nor capitalists that allowed him to stay. Pretty girls no longer walk the Embarcadero.

                  Still plenty of smart white engineers in those towers, but considerably fewer pretty girls dare walk the Embarcadero.

                • Ex says:

                  Part of a solution is allowing people to once again require and advertise white-made products from white-owned businesses, which is currently illegal in America.

                • Pooch says:

                  That’s not what I see in the northeast US. I see a local sandwich shop that I liked near my office which used to have a pleasant all white staff now only employ poor english speaking low IQ hispanics. They are doing the same work for half the wage of their white counterparts and live 20 to a house to make up for it.

                  They are productive at their low skill jobs and aren’t shitting on the streets here. This seems like a problem inherent to modern capitalism to me. The Italian and Irish immigrants of the early 1900s did similar so maybe this is not a problem after all? I don’t know but an injection of low IQ browns (even if productive) doesn’t seem desirable.

                • jim says:

                  H1Bs are in fact substantially less productive that white engineers and cause problems, but crimestop prevents managers from noticing it.

                  And similarly I bet your sandwich shop is part of a business big enough to have a Human Resources Department, and the human resources department forbids the boss to discriminate against brown workers who do half the work in an inferior way to white workers. If your sandwich shop was owned by the shopkeeper himself, I suspect its staff would reflect the owner’s race.

                  Not everything is a progressive conspiracy, but one hell of a lot of it.

                  And that pretty girls no longer walk the Embarcadero is definitely a progressive conspiracy. Were capitalists responsible for the fact that José Inez García Zárate came to San Francisco illegally, lived on crime and welfare, and is still there despite illegal status and numerous arrests for very serious crimes?

                • Not Tom says:

                  They are productive at their low skill jobs and aren’t shitting on the streets here. This seems like a problem inherent to modern capitalism to me.

                  You’re defining “modern capitalism” as free trade and free movement, neither of which have anything to do with ancient capitalism. They were introduced by progressives and – predictably – made part of the canon by “conservatives” who now accept it as gospel.

                  Employers do want cheap labor, yes, but cheap foreign labor and cheap foreign materials can be denied without also denying other aspects of economic productivity; tariffs are a simple and effective tool.

                  Employers want all kinds of crazy things, and employees want all kinds of crazy things, and normally they will sort this out through negotiation as long as neither party is allowed to cheat – say, by offshoring to escape local market rates, or by forming labor unions to artificially inflate market rates.

                  Employers might be less desperate to bring in foreign ringers if there were not so many perverse incentives, like tax havens, over-regulation of the domestic market, disparate impact lawsuits, sexual harassment lawsuits, and so on – but even if they did, it’s not a problem that they want it, only a problem that we give it to them. Every 6 year old wants candy for dinner, but if the parents give it to him, it’s the fault of the parents, not the child or the candy store.

                • >They are doing the same work for half the wage of their white counterparts and live 20 to a house to make up for it.

                  Surely they don’t want to live like that forever. Eventually they will save up money and buy a single-family house in Mexico. So my point is, if you ban immigration, domestic, citizen browns will not accept such wages, because they don’t have another country to go to where they can buy a single-family home cheaply. I am somewhat familiar with this mindset because many Eastern Europeans do this in London, living like that sucks but what makes them go on is that in 5 years they can buy a house at home. If they were citizens of the UK and not citizens of an EE country, so they would have to buy their house there, it would take 20 years of living so which is something they would not accept. Some peoples indeed do have lower standards, but remember how US blacks lived pre-Civil Rights, it might have been a worse house than what whites had but a single-family home, not 20 to a house.

                  Another observation is that due to bad white birth rates, we sort of ran out of white poors. I don’t really understand how fertility by class works, maybe someone has data on it, all I can say is that in Western Europe whites do not take cheap burger-flipping jobs because their parents did not take them either, somehow everybody alive has at least upper-working class parents, somehow the white under-working class of 1950 was even worse at reproduction than whites in general. It is truly weird. Do you know any whites in the US who had unskilled laborer parents? There used to be white unskilled laborers but somehow they had even less kids than whites in general?

                • Not Tom says:

                  Do you know any whites in the US who had unskilled laborer parents?

                  That depends on what you mean by unskilled. Factory workers and coal miners? Definitely. Burger flippers? No, not really.

                  But I think that is partly because most whites are smart enough to realize they can’t properly raise a family on a burger flipper’s wage. Those jobs are best filled by youth or elderly, or semi-skilled adults needing temporary supplemental income. I know many whites who worked crap jobs in their youth, but had better jobs by the time they had kids. And lots of elderly go to work as Walmart greeters, often just so they have a reason to get out of the house.

                  In my opinion, a huge part of the problem is that whites who clawed their way up the career ladder the hard way are determined to make it “easier” for their kids, specifically by sending them to college. That leads to young adults who (a) think low-skill work is beneath them and (b) are saddled with so much student debt that low-skill work can’t actually pay the bills, even if their degree doesn’t qualify them for any in-demand high-skill work.

                  It’s tragic, and the maintenance of this broken system is part of the reason why we have “crops rotting in the fields” and demand for low-skill immigration. It’s an addictive painkiller, for which we have to keep increasing the dose just to feel somewhat normal.

                  Yes, I literally blame Harvard for the disappearance of white people from menial jobs; the triple threat of status inflation, female hypergamy, and mass immigration all reinforce each other and push white men out of historically white male jobs.

            • Ethnic unity is one of the glues holding ruling classes united, every responsible state that wants to keep secure power secure will be against large numbers of ethnically different immigrants even if they behave well. Skimming India for the cream of their best one million people, out of a billion, there is a good chance they would be good people not shitting on the streets, but then you have a power block of one million Indians, not very good for power security. One million relatively smart, hence ambitious people. Not good, too dangerous.

              Many libertarians see the Victorian period as the golden age of unregulated free market. And within states this might have been true, but between states the tariff barriers have been far stricter than anything today. A lot of people were employed in enforcing that and chasing down smugglers. E.g. there was this story that international help to clean up some oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico has been hindered by a law that only US ships may carry goods between two US ports, and that law was made back then in that supposed libertarian golden age.

              Back in the day I was reading a lot of libertarian economics so the idea of tariff barriers isn’t really intuitive to me. Won’t captive markets make domestic industries lazy due to reduced competition? This sort of thinking. I guess one answer I could give to that is that states also compete through war and beyond open war there is that kind of diplomatic pressure of one state that would clearly win a war against another state just making demands and they better obey. This gives a very clear incentive to every *responsible* state to protect their domestic industries only to a necessary level and not too much, because they want to keep them in strong enough competitive shape so that when needed they can turn out good tanks and cannons that can compete in the battlefield.

              Medieval Venice had a huge state-owned factory for both warships and commercial ships. Of course rubs me the wrong way, why state-owned. But the state had a clear competitive interest in making good warships, so the commercial ships if modeled after them won’t be too bad either. A small city can afford only one such factory. A big country more, hence not state-owned, but some state protection could work on the same principle.

              • Not Tom says:

                …the idea of tariff barriers isn’t really intuitive to me. Won’t captive markets make domestic industries lazy due to reduced competition?

                Yes, possibly. Then again, if the foreign business is only able to keep prices low because of foreign government intervention or business practices that would be illegal here, is that really competition in the libertarian sense of the word?

                The problem with libertarian thinking on trade is that it is all black and white, imagines the entire world as following libertarian ideology and does not account for the activities of warriors or priests, domestic or foreign. Everything must be optimized for everyone acting like a completely rational agent who believes sincerely in libertarian ethics. In that sense it’s a totalizing ideology not unlike progressivism.

                In the real world there are problems, solutions, and tradeoffs.

                Problem #1: Government needs money. Is it more efficient to tax foreign trade, or domestic productivity?
                Problem #2: Foreign governments don’t have the same laws, leading to asymmetric and unfair trade. Is it more efficient to install a supranational government, construct heinously complex multilateral treaties, or just make some price adjustments here and there?
                Problem #3: Capital mobility and labor mobility break the underlying assumptions of international trade. If you’re a net importer, you end up leaking capital and accumulating labor until you look like a third world country. Are there sensible precautions we can take to avoid this situation but still keep trade functioning?
                Problem #4: Foreign governments impose their own tariffs. Are we not allowed to impose retaliatory tariffs, because muh principles?

                and so on.

        • Viking says:

          Better question would have been how is neo reaction different from neoconjob

          • jim says:

            Neocons are Trotskyites pretending to be republicans. We are not Trotskyites, and we are not pretending to be Republicans.

      • >Neoreaction believes that democracy is mostly fake: you either have a recognized ruling class, or an unrecognized ruling class.

        That’s one dimension, the other dimension is united vs. divided ruling class. Sort of a 2-dim political compass.

        So recognized and divided ruling classes happen in “true” democracies hence they devolve into civil war quickly. One man, one vote, once.

        In the post-1945 West there were divided recognized ruling classes, i.e. figurehead political parties, but a united unrecognized ruling class behind them. This is especially obvious in international politics, a country outside the US is defined democratic if they are protectorates of Washington, and democratic peace theory is the same as nazi peace theory or communist peace theory: neither Washington, nor Berlin, nor Moscow, nor Beijing allowed their protectorates to go to war with each other.

        The idea that there should be only recognized ruling classes is formalism. One might or might not accept formalism, it does sound a tiny bit autistic, humans are supposed to be able to sense informal status hierarchies and not need to have it served them on a platter, but you see that was meant for small tribes. Non-autists should be able to deal with informal hierarchy in a group of 300 people. But not in three million or thirty million. No way to coordinate on the larger scale but formally.

        If one does accept formalism, and thus that ruling classes should be recognized, then that they should be united is obvious, as civil wars obviously suck. The glue to unite them is loyalty to a person (king) and loyalty to a set of ideas (state church) and loyalty to each other and the ruled (ethnic nationality). The human tendency is very strongly towards not being united so it really does need a lot of duct tape.

        • info says:

          Qin Dynasty managed to do just that. And as the reunifications commenced the Dynasties grip lasted longer and longer.

          China has a terrain as varied as Europe and had many nations as much as cultural diversity as Europe. But the wars of Anniliation made this unification total:
          https://scholars-stage.blogspot.com/2016/07/china-was-never-empire-of-mind.html?m=1

          • You know, recently I was playing a bit of a Poltical Turing Test kind of thing on myself: if I was a Chinese dude studying Western history, what would I find the weirdest? And it would be this:

            “How comes you guys never got around to reunite the Roman Empire? Your mandarinate in the Middle Ages was speaking Latin, much of European population was speaking a Romance language and the most powerful of those who didn’t, the German-speakers, had a guy who was literally called Holy Roman Emperor! And you had a common enemy, the Muslims, to unite against. You had an idea of a Christendom above all these petty kingdoms. You had everything you needed to do the job!”

            And my first answer would have been “well whites just liking fighting each other too much” but that guy would laugh that one out. Chinese history also shows the Han like fighting each other a lot, too.

            So my second and current answer is the opposite: “whites are just too good at making compromises”. That is, instead of keeping on fighting until there is one Emperor and one Empire, whites basically made compromises like okay there is this bunch of warlords, each will rule whatever territory he conquered as a king, as his *property right* and future wars will just be about whether this or that nephew of a childless king has rightfully inherited this or that province but never about full reunification.

            • jim says:

              1. Chinese are just more submissive. You see it in the kids in every school. Whites are more inclined to make trouble when they see authority acting unjustly. From age zero Chinese children are less trouble.

              2. Whites have a gut level feeling that authority should rule lawfully. Chinese are just more amenable to centralization.

              3. Christianity. Old Testament says the King should respect the hereditary property rights of his subjects, and that if he does not God’s wrath is likely to result in the King being killed. So when the King centralized, the lords figured that they were likely to succeed in killing him. And frequently did.

            • Strannik says:

              I’d tell your hypothetical Chinaman from far Khitai that the Papacy is to blame for the failure to reunite the Roman Empire.

              But that doesn’t mean we’re finished trying to reunite it.

      • Atavistic Morality says:

        Francoist Spain wasn’t fascist.

        Franco was a soldier that defended the roots of Spain as a nation united under one faith. He wanted to reestablish the monarchy as well. Taxes really low, solid and robust middle class with several children comfortably paid with the father’s wage, marital power, unemployment virtually zero, streets safe for decent people, criminals, agitators and gypsy scum afraid of leaving their dwellings… he raised the country from its ashes. A Jimian nation would look a lot like Franco’s “dictablanda”.

        It’s really tiring how these dogshit progressives and subhuman leftoids have been brainwashing everyone to the point even reactionaries will believe this nonsense. Franco undermined and subverted the original Falange at every turn, removing them from any position of power or influence from the very beginning. For the time he was solidly established, the Falange was something else and fascists were every day more irrelevant.

        Fascists were faggots that unironically used the term “social justice”.

        • jim says:

          Franco tried socialism, with the usual results. He backed off from socialism, but not far enough and the failure of socialism discredited him, even though he backed off in a timely fashion. The retreat from socialism discredited Francoism. Compare with Trump’s successful national capitalism.

          So, National Socialist.

          National Socialism was less crazy than communism, because it did not consider the productive enemies to be destroyed. Communism, like progressivism, mobilizes envy, so any act of production is seen as a hostile act, and the person producing an enemy to be annihilated – Trump boasts of factories and oil wells, but progressives see them as an evil to be destroyed.

          But it still failed for all the usual reasons explained by Hayek and Mises.

          It is today a walking dead ideology, and too many of its adherents are overly influenced by progressive ideology, and in some cases conspiratorially and furtively employed by Soros, the CIA, and the FBI, though their ngo and contractor cutouts.

          National socialism, like communism, was tried and failed.

          • Halion says:

            Franco was not a socialist, he was a pragmatist. Franco had 2 distinct stages: autarky (1939-1959) and economic opening (1960-1975). The first can be considered as a form of economic fascism (inspired by the social doctrine of the Catholic Church, an attempt to reconcile “capital” and “work,” that is, discipline businessmen and trade unionists). In part, it was also due to the isolation imposed on his regime. From the 60s, with the thawing of relations with the anglosphere and the end of the blockade, Franco leaves the government in the hands of technocrats who make reforms to liberalize the economy.

            • jim says:

              Halion:

              > and economic opening (1960-1975).

              Economic opening was the correct policy, but was perceived as a defeat for Francoism, a retreat, and a loss of power by Franco and Francoism. He was perceived as losing power to a permanent government that did not much like Franco and Francoism, and rather did like the enemies he had been trying to suppress and purge.

              In contrast, Trump’s national capitalism has been a huge success, which success is a major reason Republicans are signing up with Trumpism and Never Trumpism is a dead movement.

              Trump appeals to the Trike: technology, capitalism, Patriarchy, identity, faith and ethnicity. National Socialism appeals to the Dike, manliness, identity and ethnicity, and is in therefore in practice much weaker on patriarchy and therefore manliness than it aspires to be. The Nazi party turned out to be full of gays.

            • Franco’s story is the classic story of insecure power. He had no *right* to rule but he played an uneasy coalition of monarchists and Falangists against each other, who were actually fighting each other although less than on the other side the Communists were fighting the Anarchists, but it still did happen that Falangists threw bombs on Carlist (monarchist) meetings because they are “capitalist pigs”. Franco indeed tried to undermine the Falange and especially its socialist aspects, but as an insecure rule he also had to swim with the flow. He had to try that shit, had to see it fail, had to have evidence it does not work in order to be able to convince the Falangists that socialism does not work. Insecure power. He could not just give orders. He was very much dependent on his popularity among his supporters.

              Well, no government ever can work without support. But I think the reason we are monarchists is the difference between consent and metaconsent. Consent means you like how the guy who rules, rules. Metaconsent means that you consent that he has the right to rule, because he is legitimate, and even when you disagree with your policies you accept he has a right to rule.

    • Pooch says:

      Ah makes sense. Thanks

  37. What? says:

    1. You use the word ‘honour’ instead of the american spelling ‘honor’. That makes you no better than any foreign leftist or holy spiraler lecturing americans about america.
    2. Instead of promoting brown communism like AOC you promote some Victorian / Feudal english society instead, again, making you no better than AOC for wanting to fundamentally change America according to your biases.
    3. You are a retarded anglo who thinks his ideas and so called values are universal. This is a mental disease that subjects of all empires in history have suffered from. Doubly so for britfucks because of geography.
    4. Geography, the UK is an island, a rainy shitty socialist island ruled by a political monopoly and the people have no where to run because of the island thing. This means the english are more tyrannical and insular than other european nations as a result. It also means that the insular nature of your society means you think your local customs are universal, they are not and people are sick of anglo ‘ideas’ like neo-liberalism.
    5. If you want to bow down to a monarch why did you come to America? You could have stayed in Britain or go back.
    6. Calling nazis leftists only sort of makes sense to the english mindset and isn’t even true in reality. Have you ever considered that nazism was just a political formalization of aspects of german culture that have been around since ancient times? The socialist part is a red herring.
    9. Socialists like taking guns like in the UK, Germans had firearms under Hitler.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_in_Germany#Gun_regulation_of_the_Third_Reich
    10. Neo-liberalism is responsible for hollowing out American manufacturing all so the correct class of people, the people you worship, can make money destroying industry. People like bankers, hedge funds, and CEOs. Thank you Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.
    11. Calling people wignat is some stupid anglo mental tick so you can assert some sort of class superiority otherwise it makes no sense. A good leader would whip these people into shape, you let them rot and laugh at them. Hitler whipped Germany into shape.
    12. Calling people wignat makes you sound like a bougie.
    13. I read you to try to understand the conservative anglo boomer mindset, I still don’t get it.
    14. I find conservative politics in english speaking countries to have really, really gay undertones.
    15. I probably got stuff wrong but whatever, I have productive stuff I need to do instead of fact checking everything because of your autism.

    • jim says:

      > sick of anglo ‘ideas’ like neo-liberalism

      “Neo liberalism” is a term used by leftists who think Latin America is poor because white American capitalists are bleeding it dry, rather than because mestizos are stupid and feckless.

      Tell us. Why is Latin America poor? Why is Africa poor?

      You screwed up your shibboleths. “neo-liberal” is what leftists call insufficiently left wing leftists. It means a left winger who is not doing enough to destroy the economy of flyover country. It is what an internationalist anti capitalist calls an internationalist who is insufficiently anti capitalist. The commie wing of the Democrats think that the Clinton wing of the Democrats are neo-liberals.

      If person A calls person a neoliberal, it is always an attack on person B as insufficiently left wing.

      People use the world neoliberalism to attack international rootless corporate capitalism – but the criticism is never that American jobs are going to China, but that third worlders are selling off their resources and working in sweatshops – it is an attack from the internationalist socialist left, not the national socialist right.

      Anyone who calls Trump a neoliberal does not think that the Obama/China trade relationship was China exploiting America. He thinks it was American capitalists exploiting Chinese.

      Tell us: Was the old deal between China and America, before Trump’s trade war, a great deal for China and a terrible deal for America, or was it a great deal for rich white American capitalists, and a terrible deal for Chinese?

      Tell us: Is there a glaringly obvious relationship between race and IQ, and an equally obvious relationship between national IQ and national wealth?

      • What? says:

        >Why is Latin America poor?
        Because its filled with shitskins and the IMF or America financially attacks it. It isn’t one or the other but both. There is a white minority that can run things stably but not if they have constant financial attacks.
        >Tell us, tell us, tell us
        I’m not playing your binary thinking game because it isn’t correct. America’s pre-Trump trade with China benefited the rich in America and the nation of China as a whole to the detriment of the 99.9% in America. Even programmers have been getting replaced for decades.
        >race, iq, national wealth
        That theory falls apart with America because whites should be richer than they are today but we have a hostile elite that is trying to destroy white America. You assume some sort of pre WWII state with that question and ignore the hostile minority that got power after WWII that wants whites dead and gone.

        >If person A calls person a neoliberal, it is always an attack on person B as insufficiently left wing
        Only in your fevered mind. What do you call the ideology that hollowed out American industry? It wasn’t the commmies that destroyed American industry but the corporations, the capitalists, and the banks. The Pentagon is reliant on China for its supply chain now, good move capitalists.

        Jim Jones, how are you any different than AOC? She promotes brown communism and you promote recreating England in America. You have to go back like the Mexicans have to go back. Fuck the English.

        @TheDividualist
        >traditional German culture
        Most of the Germans in Germany didn’t seem to know much about traditional German culture either thanks to capitalism destroying their way of life.

        • jim says:

          > > Why is Latin America poor?

          > Because its filled with shitskins and the IMF or America financially attacks it. It isn’t one or the other but both. There is a white minority that can run things stably but not if they have constant financial attacks.

          OK, pretty good evidence you are not being paid to write this and paid to pretend to be on the right, because if you were those words would likely get you fired. So now I am debating you on the theory that you actually believe, and are not parroting your master’s script like a third world help line worker on an unhelpful help line. (Which I get a lot of.)

          Describing the IMFs activities as “financial attack” is incorrect. The IMF gets taxpayer money from rich countries, and then “lends” it to poor countries for stupid activities, subject to stupid conditions, which loans are seldom repaid, in part because the money tends be embezzled, partly by local elites, partly by ngos staffed by Democrats. The IMF and World Bank close their eyes to this embezzlement, because of the revolving door between the ngos and the World Bank and IMF.

          If the conditions are bad, don’t take the money. Taxpayers in rich countries are compelled to pay, but governments in poor countries are not compelled to borrow.

          What happens is a corrupt elite borrows the money, embezzles it, and then, unstable power means someone else comes to power and is faced with demands that the money that was pissed away on corruption and stupid projects be repaid – which does indeed look like an attack. but it is not an attack. It is still a transfer of funds from wealthy smart white people to poor stupid brown people. Also a transfer of funds from taxpayers in flyover country to people like Biden’s son, a transfer of wealth within America from people in flyover country to people in the bicoastal megalopoli, using the story “We care deeply about far”, to attack and rob near.

          OK. Next questions (I am still a little bit suspicious. I get a lot of enemy action.)

          Why was Venezuela rich, and now it is poor? Was the election of Hugo Chavez the masses seizing power from neoliberal imperialists, or was it brown people kicking down the doors of the white run bakery to loot the place, and then wondering why the shop shelves are empty and they cannot buy bread, brown people seizing the factory, having no idea how to operate it, and then ripping out the equipment to sell it for scrap?

          What do you think caused the food shortage in the Nazi empire that led them to starve Greek Nazis? Why were Greek Nazis starving? Why did Greek farmers stop producing food?

          Strannik thinks you are a genuine Nazi. I am asking these questions to figure out what you are. “Neoliberalism” is a commie concept, and the idea that capitalism is new is a commie concept.

          If you are a genuine Nazi, I am going to take your national socialism seriously and debate it, arguing for Trump’s national capitalism (only more so). The use of the term “neoliberal” still leaves me suspicious, so I am still to pin you down and figure out what you are.

          If you are an genuine Nazi, I recommend you read Mike’s excellent link and Ex’s excellent explanation which lucidly explain the difference between reaction and nazism. (Hint. We are not neoliberals, and neither is Trump. And even if you are not a paid shill, you do not seem to be a Nazi.)

        • jim says:

          > What do you call the ideology that hollowed out American industry?

          Progressivism. It was not capitalists that looted the Ukraine, unless you think Hunter Biden is a capitalist because he is on the board of numerous companies at extremely high pay.

          As an engineer, I complain a lot about H1Bs, but it is not H1Bs that are shitting in the streets of San Francisco. It is mostly illegals brought in to live on crime and welfare, and boost the blue state count in the census, thus increasing Democrat federal representation in the House and the Electoral college.

          > Most of the Germans in Germany didn’t seem to know much about traditional German culture either thanks to capitalism destroying their way of life.

          This accepts the Marxist doctrine that capitalism is new. Capitalism is ancient. King Solomon assumes that capital is created by families, that it is rightly owned by that family, and that value is created by the owner and creator of that capital, who uses the market in capital to apply capital to its highest and best use. The parables of Jesus assume the unlimited authority of the owner of that capital who uses the property rights in that capital to create value, and the freedom of the employer to contract with employees according to the consent of the employer and the consent of the individual employee.

          The doctrine that capitalism is new is a lie issued by the priestly class who want to rob the merchant class.

          The trouble with Nazism is that it was heavily influenced by communism, but you are using a lot more commie shibboleths than Nazi shibboleths. You are using a lot more commie words and commie ideas than Nazi words and Nazi ideas.

          Nazism and communism are both theories of priestly supremacy, the main difference being that Nazism derives from Lutheranism, via the radical Lutherans that Luther urged the princes to suppress, while Marxism derives from Judaism and the radical Puritans that Oliver Cromwell suppressed. And your words are words that come from Marx translating Judaism from the next world to this world in preparation for Immanentizing the Eschaton, not words that come from radical Lutherans translating Lutheranism from the next world to this world.

          “Bourgeoisie” in the sense that you are using it comes from Marx translating the Jewish Eschaton to the Communist Revolution. It is not Nazi or radical Lutheran terminology.

    • >Have you ever considered that nazism was just a political formalization of aspects of german culture that have been around since ancient times? The socialist part is a red herring.

      Hitler said that the big mistake of German conservatives was not noticing that socialism is very useful for nation-building. So Hitler was doing something new, not something traditional, took socialism seriously at the very least as a tool, used symbols like the swastika that had litle to do with German history. (The Teutonic Cross would have been a lot better, and they used that too, but the swastika had nothing specifically German, an esoteric symbol, even its Aryan associations fairly loose. And the Nazi eagle had one head, the Imperial one two heads. I don’t see them trying for symbolic continuity.)

      You know nothing about traditional German culture, how there was no such thing as the Russian type socialistic village community but individual allotments of land (Hufenverfassung, hide system). Read Mitterauer’s “Why Europe?” The manor was a capitalist enterprise growing and processing (milling, baking) food for the cities and paying workers in land allotments instead of money. It was by no means a primitive-socialist community. And how traditional German culture differs from all that proto-New-Agey esoteric Aryanism. And you know nothing about Nazis either. On that account, you could read this: https://carlsbad1819.wordpress.com/2017/03/24/reading-some-actual-nazis/

      • The Cominator says:

        ” took socialism seriously at the very least as a tool”

        The horribly failed Nazi agriculture policy (not necessary as part of a prep for total war… and the Nazis didn’t even use their socialism for Total War until 1943 as Goebbels and Speer bitched about to no end) proved they took it seriously as an end in itself.

        The worst thing is that Hitler went for the socialism aspect AFTER suppressing the socialistic wignatish nazis in the Roehm Putsch.

        “11. Calling people wignat is some stupid anglo mental tick so you can assert some sort of class superiority otherwise it makes no sense. A good leader would whip these people into shape, you let them rot and laugh at them. Hitler whipped Germany into shape.
        12. Calling people wignat makes you sound like a bougie.”

        Wignats are in general hopeless idiots and controlled op, they deserve the label you stupid fucking wignat.

        • Bilge Pump says:

          “Wignats are in general hopeless idiots and controlled op, they deserve the label you stupid fucking wignat.”

          I’d rather be around white people than any other people. I’m fine with forcing everyone else to gtfo.

          Here’s some statements to establish my non-shill status:

          Women love sociopath badboys and generally if allowed will fuck things up until they find one to fall in love with. Giving them any political influence is a mistake.

          Jews, poos, and niggers too must go

          Democracy is fuckin stupid and needs to gtfo. Personally I don’t want to have to worry about political bickering, I’m interested in doing other things with my time, but if some group of annoying faggots or satan worshiping trannies or street shitting poos is getting on my nerves I’m going to do what it takes to get them to stop. To me this means going against democracy and the faggishness that brought poos niggers spics and Jews here to begin with.

          Of course going against democracy lends support to poodom, with it’s caste system. Poos want to establish a new caste system with whites beneath them. Capitalists are hiring them and enabling them to do it. Sure government aka socialism made H1B into law, but greedy Bezos shits are the ones hiring them. The entire thing is a clusterfuck of annoying fuckery.

          • jim says:

            Yes

            Just as people are willfully blind to female misconduct in the workplace, they are willfully blind to the fact that diversity plus proximity equals war, willfully blind to what happens when you hire too many H1Bs for a critical business function.

            When you get enough Indians of one caste in the engineering department, first they get rid of the white engineers, and management thinks that is fine, then they coordinate to disempower management, and management fails to notice because noticing is racist, and then they run the company into the ground because they do not know how to manage the company.

            Management thinks that they are getting cheap docile slave labor engineers, and that will elevate the status of management in the company and lower the status of engineers, but when you get a critical mass, less docile than they seem.

          • Not Tom says:

            What makes wignats wignats – why the slur exists – is the specific belief that White (almost always capitalized like that) is a cohesive identity and inherently virtuous in and of itself, and all other groups are deliberately oppressing them, which is remarkably similar to what naggers believe about themselves.

            Simply observing that white supermajorities are less dysfunctional than racial diversity, and wanting to live in such a supermajority, is not wignat, it’s just common sense. If you dial that up to 11 and want 100% racial purity, then it starts to sound a little extreme and more importantly, insanely complicated (because most white Americans are not 100% European, Jews are not 100% Ashkenazi, etc.), but still not wignat, just impractical.

            Wignat is claiming that all white people are inherently good, including the communists, and that socialized medicine would totally work if we got rid of all the nonwhites, just like it did(n’t) in 80s-90s Canada with its >90% white population.

          • Pooch says:

            Democracy can work in a white supermajority. Worked in the US 1783-1960. Would have worked even better if the blacks were kicked out when they were freed like Australia did to its Pacific Islander slaves.

            • jim says:

              Democracy failed when they enfranchised women and men without property. This was the first step on the government electing a new people. Pretty soon the idea that Africans in subsaharan Africa are not allowed to vote themselves American’s stuff will be deemed morally unthinkable.

              • Pooch says:

                That’s not true. Married women overwhelmingly vote the same as their husbands. Democracy failed when marriage was destroyed unless you are saying democracy is the reason marriage and family formation was attacked.

                • jim says:

                  Democracy was a big part of the reason marriage was attacked.

                  The priestly class wanted to demonize a warrior aristocracy by blaming them for female misconduct, so pushed the doctrine that women were sexless angels, hence any form of coercion against female sexuality was wrongdoing. This attack on marriage was not in itself initially motivated by democracy.

                  This, of course, created a class of women dependent on the state, rather than husbands, who could be relied on to vote for more of the same. And then they gave them the vote, and the attack came to be motivated by, and supported by, democracy. Replacing marriage with child support is, like illegal immigration, the government electing a new people, even though the initial attack on marriage long predates electing a new people.

                • Dave says:

                  That’s why the 19th Amendment didn’t cause an immediate collapse of marriage, but it unleashed a feedback loop where unmarried women voted for government benefits, which then reduced the incentive for other women to marry.

                  To the single woman, government is the father she never knew and the husband she’ll never have.

                • 1) I have a suspicion, I cannot quite prove it, that the reason democracy emerged was that warrior-aristocrats kind of got beta, could not control their wives, listened to their wives, who generally liked the ideas idealistic young intellctuals preached and held back their husbands hands when they wanted to crush them. Otherwise why didn’t warrior aristocrats crushed the whole thing, nipped it in the bud? Can you imagine medieval knights would have put up with this?

                  There was a loss of manhood when knights turned into ballet-dancing courtiers.

                  Pulling a Montesquieau again: “In monarchies women are subject to very little restraint; because, as the distinction of ranks calls them to court, there they assume a spirit of liberty, which is almost the only one tolerated in that place. Each courtier avails himself of their charms and passions, in order to advance his fortune: and, as their weakness admits not of pride, but of vanity, luxury constantly attends them.”

                  Recall how Act I of the French Revolution was that the aristocrats complained that the kingdom is in debt because the king is buying diamonds for the queen. If it was true, doesn’t it sound like being a weak man who gives in too much to the wife? Do manly men of their own decision tend to spend too much on luxuries or is it generally the influence of their wives?

                  Maybe pull Adam Smith here:

                  “In a commercial country, abounding with every sort of expensive luxury, the sovereign, in the same manner as almost all the great proprietors in his dominions, naturally spends a great part of his revenue in purchasing those luxuries. His own and the neighbouring countries supply him abundantly with all the costly trinkets which compose the splendid, but insignificant, pageantry of a court. For the sake of an inferior pageantry of the same kind, his nobles dismiss their retainers, make their tenants independent, and become gradually themselves as insignificant as the greater part of the wealthy burghers in his dominions. The same frivolous passions, which influence their conduct, influence his.”

                  “The tenants having in this manner become independent, and the retainers being dismissed, the great proprietors were no longer capable of interrupting the regular execution of justice, or of disturbing the peace of the country. Having sold their birth-right, not like Esau, for a mess of pottage in time of hunger and necessity, but, in the wantonness of plenty, for trinkets and baubles, fitter to be the playthings of children than the serious pursuits of men, they became as insignificant as any substantial burgher or tradesmen in a city.”

                  I cannot quite prove it yet, but I definitely sense a weaking and feminization of 18th century warrior aristocrats, their wives gaining more and more influence over them.

                  2) In the modern era, I think there is a multi-generational process. When girls grow up with fathers, they tend to consider the fathers alpha. Thus they see good provider beta men as alphas. I think the first generation of “liberated” women divorced their husbands seeking a merely a better beta, someone more like their fathers. But in the second generation girls grew up without fathers and that is when they became really, really feral.

              • The Cominator says:

                And its very very hard in a republic or democracy to maintain a restricted franchise. Its probably possible to resist enfranchising women but the pressure to enfranchise people without property becomes overwhelming in the event of total war (which is why Rome for centuries did not let the “Head Count” serve in the legions and they only enrolled them under the pressure of the massive Cimbric invasion under Marius).

            • Not Tom says:

              If you’re going to claim that democracy works in the USA, then you have to put the termination date at 1933 when democracy formally ended. And that’s a full 30 years before any significant demographic change.

              But democracy really ended in 1883 with the Pendleton Civil Service Act; voting has been little more than a formality since then. Which puts your “success” period between 1783 and 1883, exactly 100 years.

              And a political system that lives only 100 years cannot be said to “work” by any useful definition of that word.

    • Bob says:

      >Have you ever considered that nazism was just a political formalization of aspects of german culture that have been around since ancient times?

      “He builds legions but he doesn’t build a nation. A nation is created by families, a religion, tradition: it is made up out of the hearts of mothers, the wisdom of fathers, the joy and the exuberance of children. [Of Germany under Hitler he says]….an all-swallowing State, disdainful of human dignities and the ancient structure of our race, sets itself up in place of everything else. And the man who, alone, incorporates in himself this whole State, has neither a God to honour nor a dynasty to conserve, nor a past to consult….
      “But of our Germany, which was a nation of poets and musicians and artists and soldiers, he has made a nation of hysterics and hermits, engulfed in a mob and led by a thousand liars or fanatics….” – The Kaiser

      • info says:

        Dan Carlin the historian observed:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvkFkJolsWA

        That the german military of wwi far surpassed the military of nazi germany. With far superior logistics to boot.

        • Strannik says:

          I think it was Marshal Zhukov who once opined that ”I have fought the fathers and I have fought the sons, and the fathers were better fighters”, or something like that.

          • info says:

            @Strannik

            Probably. National socialism and hitler who is pretty much a loon in many respects really did a number on Germany.

        • Bob says:

          Yeah, wasn’t Dan Carlin’s source on the superiority of the WWI german military none other than the quoted personal opinion of Hitler himself?

          Carlin quoted observers saying the german army marched through their village in perfect lock step formation, singing the same songs at the same cadence, for eight hours. No breaks or gaps. No pauses. Just an eight hour long line of perfectly marching soldiers. That level of organization and cooperation could’ve gotten us to Alpha Centauri by now. Thanks, Obama.

          • The Cominator says:

            Thanks Wilson… a man far far worse than Obama could ever.

          • Strannik says:

            Funny that for all of Hitler’s anti-Slav hatreds, he said somewhere that the best infantry in the 20th century were the Serbians…

    • Not Tom says:

      1. You use the word ‘honour’ instead of the american spelling ‘honor’. That makes you no better than any foreign leftist or holy spiraler lecturing americans about america.

      When did Jim do that? Maybe I missed something, but that spelling is coming from the Indian shills, not Jim.

      2. Instead of promoting brown communism like AOC you promote some Victorian / Feudal english society instead, again, making you no better than AOC for wanting to fundamentally change America according to your biases.

      muh horseshoe theory

      3. You are a retarded anglo who thinks his ideas and so called values are universal.

      Obviously a lie, since he (and we) acknowledge that these ideas are in fact thought crime, not allowed to be spoken in polite society, so obviously not universal. What they are is correct, and proven by the historical record. If you don’t read or know or care about history, then shut your mouth and listen to the people who do.

      4. Geography, the UK is an island, a rainy shitty socialist island ruled by a political monopoly and the people have no where to run because of the island thing. This means the english are more tyrannical and insular than other european nations as a result. It also means that the insular nature of your society means you think your local customs are universal, they are not and people are sick of anglo ‘ideas’ like neo-liberalism.

      Wonderful little piece of inductive reasoning that has no resemblance whatsoever to reality (other than the UK being socialist, but who isn’t these days?) and, as Jim already pointed out, gets the shibboleths all wrong.

      5. If you want to bow down to a monarch why did you come to America? You could have stayed in Britain or go back.

      Other than maybe the Arab world, where is there an actual, functioning monarchy? Asserting that the UK is a monarchy is just dumb. The Queen couldn’t even prevent the establishment of a “Supreme Court”. The royal family has not exercised executive privilege since… well, long before any of us were born.

      6. Calling nazis leftists only sort of makes sense to the english mindset and isn’t even true in reality. Have you ever considered that nazism was just a political formalization of aspects of german culture that have been around since ancient times? The socialist part is a red herring.

      Nazism was right-wing culture tainted with the left-wing ideology, which gradually took over the movement. If you don’t believe it contained real socialism, then explain the massive expansion of social programs in Nazi Germany.

      9. Socialists like taking guns like in the UK, Germans had firearms under Hitler.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_in_Germany#Gun_regulation_of_the_Third_Reich

      Gun grabbing and socialism are independent. Leftists in general tend to love both, but disarmament isn’t a hard requirement for socialism, or liberalism in general.

      10. Neo-liberalism is responsible for hollowing out American manufacturing all so the correct class of people, the people you worship, can make money destroying industry. People like bankers, hedge funds, and CEOs. Thank you Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.

      Gay.

      11. Calling people wignat is some stupid anglo mental tick so you can assert some sort of class superiority otherwise it makes no sense. A good leader would whip these people into shape, you let them rot and laugh at them. Hitler whipped Germany into shape.

      Congratulations, you’re the 10 millionth person to make the “don’t marginalize them, integrate them!” argument. You win no prize. Some low-functioning people can’t be integrated, which is why the military has an IQ requirement. And wignats are low class; if you disagree, point us to one that’s been considered high class, at any time and in any place. Nazi Germany doesn’t count, either; Teutonic supremacism is not white nationalism.

      12. Calling people wignat makes you sound like a bougie.

      Using the word “bougie” makes you sound like a communist faggot.

      13. I read you to try to understand the conservative anglo boomer mindset, I still don’t get it.

      Oh yeah, Jim is crazy popular with boomer cons, that’s why Fox is racing to interview him and National Review is racing to publish him.

      14. I find conservative politics in english speaking countries to have really, really gay undertones.

      Nazi party was literally full of homosexuals. They had more fags than the Catholic Church.

      15. I probably got stuff wrong but whatever, I have productive stuff I need to do instead of fact checking everything because of your autism.

      Ok, so you weren’t too busy to write a 15 point screed, only to fact check it. Good to know.

    • >and the people have no where to run because of the island thing

      In actually reality the most stereotypically British to do has been to get on a ship to live somewhere else – North America, Australia, Africa, India… this has been so stereotypical that we in Continental Europe used to wonder how they don’t seem have a geographical kind of patriotism, of being attached to the geography of the homeland, how are they able to make homelands for themselves all over the planet. Later it was explained as the difference between farmer vs. peasant populations.

      • Atavistic Morality says:

        How is that a British stereotype? To get on a ship to explore has been mostly a Southern European venture. The British only started to get on the business when someone else did the dangerous job first, to be merchants mostly and then perhaps settle, Anglos and merchants really go hand in hand, you know, Adam Smith: island, navy, commerce, anglo, yes. It’s a no brainer, islanders with boats being merchants are like a human meme, convenient ports being centers of commerce is a natural affair.

        Where are you from in “Continental Europe”? I think geographical patriotism is fake and gay, modern nationalism is fake, gay and socialist (Perfidious France). Alexander and the Romans didn’t care much for it, neither did the Spanish Empire and its supreme infantry. But really, I don’t think any European particularly cared considering that the monarchs and nobles were often not native to the land.

        People cared about religion/culture and blood, which makes sense. Geographical patriotism is the retarded idea that the commie living two blocks down is somehow your fellow more than the Christian living 300 miles away. Caved-in retarded fake and gay thought process, almost as bad as progressivism.

  38. Strannik says:

    I wanted to answer you Jim, but didn’t have a ”reply” function on your post so here it is;

    ”Do they?

    Name one and tell me what makes you say he is a Nazi.”

    The poster; ”What?” is an example.

    ”You said there is a Nazi in my comments section. Who is he and what is the unspeakable hate fact he mentioned that led you to conclude he is a Nazi?”

    Facts aren’t ‘hateful’, but you’re mirroring the narrative of your Liberal enemies in using those words in a mocking matter, disarming the intended force of the enemy blow. I however am not a Liberal.

    ”The only “Nazis” I see are commie and progressive shills saying what they think Hitler said – except that they do not know what Hitler said and refuse to find out, just as you do not know and refuse to learn what we are saying. An actual Nazi would actually know what Hitler said.”

    There are a lot of that type to be sure.

    ”There are ironic Nazis, who just want to make progressives cry, and there are ironic Nazis who have a bee in their bonnet about Jews, but they are readily distinguishable from shills posing as actual Nazis.”

    Those too.

    ”The biggest tell revealing fake Nazis is that they will rant about Jews and Rothschilds, but never Soros and Victoria Nuland, and they will rant about Israel, but never Jerusalem.”

    I agree.

    ”If someone is complaining about US power meddling in foreign countries, he typically says “Washington”, or perhaps “The State Department”, an organization headquartered in Washington. But a fake Nazi will never use the word “Jerusalem” in a way that implies that it is the capital of Israel, because his employers refuse to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.”

    An actual Nazi would, for now anyway, strategically ignore the problem of the Jews. Of course the capital of Israel is Jerusalem, Nazis of today will live in the real post-1945 world too. What distinguishes the true ones is that they always want to fight the war they lost, all over again, but this time to victory. To remind them of how and why they lost the war of 1914-1945 is to trigger them and reveal them.

    • jim says:

      > > Name one and tell me what makes you say he is a Nazi.

      > The poster; ”What?” is an example.

      There is no commenter using the handle “What?”. Give me a link.

      And, predictably, you refuse to tell me what makes him supposedly a Nazi.

      • Strannik says:

        Jim, you said that;

        ”There is no commenter using the handle “What?”. Give me a link.”

        Here’s what he said, I believe it was to you not sure;

        ”What? says:
        2020-02-03 at 21:44

        Why do you want to attack Iran? It is irrational for you to hate Iran because some jews have grudges against the Iranian regime. Or are you some pathetic anglo that lost money after the ’79 revolution? You get stupider with every post. German from 1933-1945 was a close to what you want in this world but your Anglo hatred of Germans prevents you from seeing that.”

        So then you also said to me that;

        ”And, predictably, you refuse to tell me what makes him supposedly a Nazi.”

        Predictably? This is my first foray onto your Blog, and I’m giving my opinions here. If you and others don’t like them i’m not going to collapse into a puddle from crying.

        This guy is a Nazi, a literal German Nazi. He quite unironically says;

        ”German from 1933-1945 was a close to what you want in this world but your Anglo hatred of Germans prevents you from seeing that.”

        So it is what it is, i’m neither making it more than what it is, nor less by denying it even exists out there.

        • jim says:

          If a commenter was an actual, for real, Nazi, he would say “Nazi Germany was good, and it was good because of such and such and so and so” And he would say, or imply that such and such and so and so was what he wanted, and were good things.

          Obviously in his mind, the accusation that what I want is similar to Nazi Germany makes me look really bad, because obviously in his mind, the accusation that I am a tool of the Jews makes me look really bad.

          This man has no previous history of commenting to my blog, and I do not see that that very brief comment identifies him as a Nazi. Or even a German. Or anything. He could be, and very likely is, arguing that what I want is Nazism, but that I fail to notice because I identify with Anglos. He fails to tell us that what I want is what he wants. Indeed, quite obviously it is not.

          Maybe he thinks that what I want is good, and Germans accomplished those good things – but rather obviously he does not think that what I want is good. The “You are a Jewish shill” line is itself a typical shill line. Social Justice warriors always project.

          If group A and group B hate each other, and group B and group C hate each other, this is no reason to suppose that group A likes group B. He assumes there can be only two sides, which is progressive thinking, not Nazi thinking.

          The sort of reasoning in that comment, that I hate Iran because I am a tool of the Jews, is characteristic of progressives and commies, who project their own nonsense onto their enemies. Nazis knew, and Ironic Nazis know, that diversity plus proximity equals war. They did not think the way the man who wrote that comment thinks.

          Soros employees always accuse everyone whom they imagine to be to the right of Pol Pot both of being a Nazi and of being employed by Jews, and there he is accusing me of being a Nazi employed by Jews in one sentence.

  39. The flip side of all this is that as long as warriors are tainted by socialism, warrior rule is not going to be all that great.

    Modern military dictatorships generally had one job and done that well: stop Communists. Argentine Dirty War, Honduras, Chile etc. However with the exception of Chile they didn’t seem to be very good at running a good economy. Good non-socialist leadership in countries with so much still low-hanging extensive growth possibilities should be able to produce 5-6% growth per year for at least a decade and that tends to make people really like the system. The numbers are not pulled out of my ass, it is what certain Eastern European economies are doing right now.

    • jim says:

      Kingly rule works impressively well for Dubai.

      The problem with recently existent military rule was, as always, insecure power, which makes high ranking officers act more like mobile bandits than stationary bandits.

      The problem was that they were nominally adherents of an official religion that rejects military rule, which undermined their stability. Plus the hegamon, America, has been hostile to military rule.

    • Jan Martense says:

      However with the exception of Chile they didn’t seem to be very good at running a good economy.

      I’m not so sure about this. In South America at least military dictators and militaristic governments seem to have a good economic track record, not only in Chile, but also Brazil, Paraguay, and Peru. Especially in Brazil, the dictatorship brought the country from Africa-tier to almost first world (at least the white areas). Franco, Mubarak, even Kagame despite horrible human capital, all did/are doing very well. The sole exception is Argentina, but the place is financially ungovernable and the Peronists didn’t do any better.

      I will grant, though, that military governments tend to prioritize threats of violence over other (e.g. cultural) threats, which is why many are overthrown by fanatic leftist propaganda despite their success. This is probably a reason to prefer a more formalized monarchy over direct military rule, it has greater popular legitimacy.

      • Not Tom says:

        I will grant, though, that military governments tend to prioritize threats of violence over other (e.g. cultural) threats, which is why many are overthrown by fanatic leftist propaganda despite their success. This is probably a reason to prefer a more formalized monarchy over direct military rule, it has greater popular legitimacy.

        To maintain popular legitimacy, a ruler needs a state religion and an elite priesthood. Military governments should prioritize threats of violence, and delegate the cultural problems to the priests.

        And if the priests fail to solve the problems, or if they make the problems worse, then replace the priests. Many rulers fail to establish a priesthood, but failing to dissolve a holiness-spiraling priesthood is an even worse problem.

        • Jan Martense says:

          >And if the priests fail to solve the problems, or if they make the problems worse, then replace the priests.

          It’s not that simple though. “Replacing the priesthood” itself requires legitimacy, or else the people, and your own soldiers, are prone to side with the old priesthood over you. When the sovereign orders a grunt with a kalashnikov to “replace the priesthood,” and at the same time the high priest tells said grunt to “kill the unbeliever,” the grunt needs to have some compelling reason to listen to the former and not the latter.

          Ultimately all conflict is between priests because warriors only fight for stuff they believe in. Your average grunt with Kalashnikov, regrettably, does not understand jouvenelian neoabsolutism. A King, who has an established relationship with religious figures (hence legitimacy), is therefore generally more effective than a random general.

          • The Cominator says:

            Death squads should follow your army and categorically execute the priesthood en masse.

            • The Cominator says:

              The point btw is to start getting rid of them under the fog of war which makes it a lot easier…

            • Jan Martense says:

              The “death squads” of the Roman Emperors were the Praetorians. As the Imperial Cult declined, they became notorious for dealing death to the Emperor himself, rather than his enemies.

          • Not Tom says:

            Even in a country literally run by holiness-spiraled priests, popular sentiment and legitimacy always defaults to the warriors. Look at the polls evaluating various institutions; the military and police are always highest, despite decades of being marginalized and demeaned.

            As long as the top guy is actually a warrior, actually an alpha, his men will follow him, not the priests. A warrior can always dissolve the priesthood, he just might have to literally dissolve them.

            But it all runs much more smoothly when the warriors and priests work together. That’s the formula for the spontaneous order that libertarians think just magically pops into existence and socialists deny exists at all.

    • Quality of warrior rule usually positively correlates with the quality of priestly ideas selected by the warrior to be the organizing principle of the state.

      Washington conquers America, uses whiggery to organize state, America prospers but eventually goes to shit.
      Franco conquers Spain, uses Catholic corporatism to organize state, Spain prospers until it falls to outside pressure.
      Pinochet “conquers” Chile, uses Chicago School econ. to organize state, Chile prospers (for now).
      Stalin conquers USSR, uses Marxism-Lenninism to organize state, USSR goes to complete shit.
      Mao conquers China, and I think you know here this is going.

  40. Jatt Arya says:

    The Iraq & Afghan wars had more contractors deployed than NATO troops at various points.

    Military force is being increasingly privatized especially at the back end ie intel, targeting etc.

    This throws up other issues like conflict of interest ie a PMC wants a conflict for its own business interest not national interest.

    Like I said you’ve peaked.

    You’re right on half or even most stuff but the limits of your christcuckery are showing.

    • Setarcos says:

      There’s a two-step sanity check.

      1. The American security establishment has been monotonously privatizing for the past approx. four decades.

      2. Is it getting more or less dysfunctional?

      Sadly, the Cold Warrior capitalist ideologue cannot compute this thought from start to finish.

      • jim says:

        Was losing, now it is winning.

        Looks like it is becoming more functional.

        Iran has been quelled, Isis is no more. No more Benghazis.

    • Not Tom says:

      Saying “you’ve peaked” implies that you are a high-status person whose opinion matters, rather than a turd-flinging down-syndrome HIV-positive mutt. Maybe you could understand what he is trying to say if you could take 5 minutes out of your busy bathhouse schedule and actually read it for once, instead of randomly banging keys on your semen and shit stained keyboard and hoping it forms something resembling complete sentences.

      You’ve got all the hallmarks of a military washout. Either they didn’t let you in because your IQ was too low, or you didn’t make it through basic training, or you are actually one of these stolen-valor parasites who wore the uniform but never actually served or did anything of real value. Those are the only conceivable reasons why you would hint constantly at being some kind of insider, yet know even less than the average civilian. Which is it, I wonder?

      • Jatt Arya says:

        Making fun of christcucks is hetereo behavior.

        We agree on most things on the bottom level.

        Christcuckery being deontological and separating the bottom from the top (creation from God) creates an identity which doesn’t figure that high level stuff is where public/private merge.

        The public vs private dichotomy is just anglo boomer tier shit.


        Eh, retarded whitoid. :shrug:

        • jim says:

          When we, rather than progressives, get to interpret Christian theology, you are going to hear the phrase “Deus Vult” again.

        • Not Tom says:

          Christcuckery being deontological and separating the bottom from the top (creation from God) creates an identity which doesn’t figure that high level stuff is where public/private merge.

          This literally makes no sense. Not even wrong, just incoherent babble peppered with big words like “deontological” in the hope of sounding smarter.

          I would guess that it’s trying to make some point about the hierarchy of ownership – which is an astoundingly stupid argument to make to a group of reactionaries who generally agree that the King owns everything and delegates autonomy and property in order to improve efficiency.

          Crown corporations are not “public”, they are owned by the crown and only the crown; to call them “public” implies that the crown is owned by the people, which implies democracy and revolutionary government, which implies communism.

          You keep trying to put up these smoke screens, but are so profoundly inept at it that you only end making yourself look stupider; lurk moar and watch the other crypto-communists, they don’t succeed either but at least their fake identities last more than a few hours.

          • right hand path says:

            [*deleted*]

            • jim says:

              If you make confident assertions about Marx and Marxism that very few people believe, need to supply evidence and argument, not just confident assertion.

              Also, claims that all the smart people believe something need to be accompanied by evidence that you are one of the smart people, such as correctly using our shibboleths.

              • Setarcos says:

                [*deleted*]

                • jim says:

                  You have absolutely no idea what our position is, and absolutely no interest in finding out, but want to tell us what is wrong with it.

                  I happy to debate, but I am not interested in receiving, or responding to, one way spam.

        • Bilge Pump says:

          “whitoid”

          Faggot street shitting poo, go back to your stinking shithole of India

  41. Viking says:

    Campfollowers maybe
    Letting the Rothschilds and amazon (or Haiburton) shake down the army not so much.
    NRx always thinks it’s imagining something neo and edgy and it always turns out to be neocon2.0
    No idea what the last two paragraphs have to do with the rest one does not require the other. But let’s begin.
    First whites build all these great civilizations. Then fuck it up by trying to scale up. Can’t be done really either you’re conquering other whites which is eating the seed corn or you’re conquering niggers which is retarded you need nigger land kill niggers take jungle. Empire beginning of end of white civilization. Do we really need to explain why this is so?
    But say anyway one finds ones army out and about. Goal should be make army supply itself with its enemies supplies I don’t feed my hawk store bought meat I keep it In yarak and she (Kate) hunts better. Now there may times when this doesn’t suit and an army should be prepared for anything. Capitalism back home as long as it’s subordinated to the culture the volk the state is a mighty white thing. And of course it will automatically respond to the needs of war but certainly you can’t put your warriors lives and do the life of the nation in the hands of fucking capitalists are you mad man? Since as you hint at in the end all men must serve there will be some to old or otherwise not suitable for actual battle they can battle the capitalists make sure the thieves are well prepared and not gouging the army/ nation and are made to understand they not only exist at the pleasure of the nation but can not exist outside the safe space carved out by warriors. These second class warriors should also be the ones to supply chain capitalists are not even second class warriors and can’t be trusted to make sure it happens the nations existence depending on it happening no matter what.
    You have to incentivize these second class warriors for this with a uniform and tank they know all men know each other’s true rank and no o e thinks a quarter master is the same as a gunnery sergeant unless the quartermaster has a medal that says he did some brave shit needing doing or the gunnery she has no campaign ribbon.
    What’s more important than even generals fighting is the sons of elites fighting or at least serving. Elites who know their own eldest son will have to carry out the absurd ideas they come up up with will think twice in time elites will all have served and will not need to think twice.
    Now some might say an army not in battle is an unknown so empire is good to keep an army in shape.
    While this has an element of truth in practice the army morphs into you arming your enemies to fight other enemies while you turn into a faggot.
    What is a better way to stay fit is to plunder on a regular basis but not in a way that risks much and also by finding nigger lands killing all the niggers and growing your people this keeps your people in a martial spirit yarak not allowing peace and prosperity to give impressions priests traders can take over civilization followed inevitably by Jews faggots and women.
    Of course you want traders scholars artists etc but never let your people get sense of martial times has passed.
    Of course you can’t exercise plunder and genocide if you have a faggot religion like Christianity. Warriors should be the “priests” your god is a god of war and of the volks ascension through war into godhood. The last such religion approaching this in white world was nazism damn good religion almost perfect way to transmutate modernity into destiny.

    • Not Tom says:

      Is there some unwritten rule that every time Jim writes a post about the military it has to be brigaded by paganfags, like every post about Jews being brigaded by wignats and fed shills?

      This hurts the eyes and the brain. Seriously. And don’t give me that shit about “I’m a warrior, I don’t need writing skill like some pussy priest academic” – famous warriors throughout history have had incredibly sharp and clear writing. Good warriors are still smart, they are just applying their wit to a different profession.

      • Jatt Arya says:

        Pagan worship Weapons

        Christcucks worship Jews

        that they would show up to posts about their topic of choice makes sense.

        Viking learn to use the enter key.

      • Viking says:

        Says the keyboard warrior who doesn’t address any argument only writing ability. Is there somewhere I’m pretending to be a good writer it’s true my life’s course has acquired skills other than essayist.
        Loyalty to your leader I suppose is commendable but he’s wrong he’s fun clever funny but way to in love with his own shtick sometimes. It’s like he hits upon a novel insight and irreverent way of framing it but can’t resist the urge to milk it for more than it’s worth
        Neocons and libertaritards told us about $2000 toilet seats decades ago when Jim and I were neocon libertariantards its a problem that could even be solved within altright NRx say shoot a few generals and ceo for treason once in a while. Instead Jim goes full moldberg land wants to have some kike profiteer hold the lifeline to our army which is the lifeline to everything. Yeah that’s brilliant

        • jim says:

          Stalin tried that solution. It helped, it helped a lot. But it was not all that effective or successful.

        • The Cominator says:

          Why not do both. Periodic public executions for profiteering and semi privatized logistics.

        • Not Tom says:

          it’s true my life’s course has acquired skills other than essayist

          No it hasn’t.

          A person’s writing reveals their state of mind. Everyone misspells things, makes typos, grammatical errors, etc. But your writing is chaotic and disordered, and that reveals a chaotic and disordered mind.

          You aren’t a great warrior. Warriors crave order and create order. To create order they may have to cause some temporary disorder, but that is not what you are doing, you are incapable of structured writing and therefore incapable of structured thinking. There’s a distant possibility you have amazing visual-spatial skills and are some kind of savant, but that’s not even close to how you present yourself. Maybe you are a grunt, maybe you are somewhat effective at cracking skulls based on the instructions of a superior and have gotten the false idea that this makes you a great leader. Or maybe you’re simply puffing yourself up to anonymous strangers. You’re either lying, or deluded.

          It’s like shaman said, so many months ago. It’s one thing to write in a way that’s awkward, boring, laconic, or a dozen other kinds of “quirky”, but quite another to write in a way that’s disordered, deeply ugly and offensive to the eyes.

          • Viking says:

            Your reading comprehension pathetic. Twice now despite being corrected you insist I claim to be a great warrior which is nowhere stated or implied in the comment.
            I am a large man and better than most with my hands and weapons but did not serve and all of which is beyond beside the point. I will give you that bad writing skills or probably closer to my situation la y skills is often a sign of low cognition. As long as you will stipulate my ideas and vocabulary belie this quick hack and that grammar cunts are usually utter faggots. Deal?

            I’m a builder more than a warrior a capitalist a hunter father lots of things I can build anything. Including ideas that fit together without breaking gears when you turn them on. I hate things that don’t fit together properly. Except I guess sentences well that’s not true I’m a voracious reader and lit lover it’s just I can’t type as fast as I think with one finger and assume you’re smart enough to get my shorthand

            So back to the points you keep ignoring. Focus or decline to read my Deeply ugly style. I must kinda.ike it since mayb cuz it offends your ilk the way land uses that deconstruct speak like the cult marxist professor he is to filter his readers.

            • Setarcos says:

              That’s a hecking good riposte, let me tell you.

            • Not Tom says:

              Twice now despite being corrected you insist I claim to be a great warrior which is nowhere stated or implied in the comment.

              You probably have me confused with someone else, as I don’t think I’ve replied to you twice before, at all, period. Unless you use alts and I replied to one of those. I was going by the “Viking” handle which sounds like pagan larping, and I suppose the fact that this thread has attracted a bunch of other pagan larpers. If you really never intended to give that impression, then fine; I stand corrected.

              On that specific point. The rest, I stand by. I’ve heard the “I can’t type as fast as I think” excuse before. I type pretty damn slowly when I’m posting from my phone and have to constantly correct the autocorrect. Can you tell the difference between the phone posts and keyboard posts?

              You want your points to be taken seriously, then fine; cut it out with the blatant anti-intellectualism, and respect your readers enough to try to be coherent. Doesn’t have to be Hemingway tier, I’d settle for Urban Dictionary tier. Just not this out-of-tune singing, nails on a chalkboard, assault on the senses, please-make-it-stop level of aggressively and offensively impenetrable.

              Yes it hurts Marxist professors, but not because they’re Marxists – because they’re literate. It hurts Marxist professors in the sense that a nuclear bomb detonated in a populated city hurts criminals. You need better targeting precision than that.

              • Viking says:

                I promise you when it crumbles you will be my slave and it will be because I spent my time on more useful skills than learning to type. And no you can’t be my scribe you will learn to work many like you I will stuff into lockers to calculate my rocket trajectories. But you will clean toilets.
                I am I intellectually anti intellectual. You’re just so many iterations down fdrs buthole you don’t really understand why his cousin had boxing matches in whitehouse your the problem not the solution. It’s not that cognition or capitalism is not useful it’s that it’s not the point.

                • jim says:

                  The basic white tactic is that a smart elite cooperates with each other, comes to rule, imposes its mode of cooperation on the white masses, and proceeds to conquer everyone.

                  For this tactic to work, you need a smart elite. Your comments look like you fail to qualify.

                • Not Tom says:

                  So much for “I never claimed to be a warrior”. You’re really not very good at this game, are you?

                  It’s not that cognition or capitalism is not useful it’s that it’s not the point.

                  Evolutionarily speaking, cognition pretty much IS the point. There have been many animals that are faster, stronger, better coordinated, more agile, more indestructible than man, but none more intelligent, and here we are standing on top. True, we haven’t colonized space yet, but there is no Earthly frontier we haven’t conquered, including the skies. That is the power of cognition, the all-powerful g – the likeness of God in which He created us.

                  That does not mean we should worship Marxist professors; but Marxist professors, despite having reasonably high cognition themselves (not very high, mind you, just better than average) are anti-civilization, which means anti-cognition. Cognition creates civilization and civilization sustains cognition. Marxist professors want to break the virtuous cycle, and so do you.

                  And you, like a typical leftist dimwit, assume that smart people are all a monolith, all a class, all aspie nerds. You can’t even conceive of the possibility that there might be people here who are both smarter and stronger than you, or smarter and better with their hands, or smarter and a better shot.

                  No imagination. Very sad. Low energy.

    • JanMartense says:

      > First whites build all these great civilizations. Then fuck it up by trying to scale up… Empire beginning of end of white civilization.

      Based on this sentiment, I’m inclined to believe you’re either a leftist shit who enjoys simpering about “decolonization” and how evil Europeans should have respected the sacred autonomy of Sudanese hill tribes, or just a retard. “Empires” didn’t kill white civilization, or any civilization for that matter. Liberalism did. Simple as that.

      > Of course you can’t exercise plunder and genocide if you have a faggot religion like Christianity.

      Ofc you ignore what was by far the most successful territorial expansion by a population in human history–the Christian colonization of North America. Didn’t require genocide, just numbers and resourcefulness. Meanwhile your beloved Nazis ended up blowing their own foot off, killing far more whites than Jews.

      > You can’t put your warriors lives and do the life of the nation in the hands of fucking capitalists are you mad man?

      Armies have fed themselves by doing exactly that, and with great success, for thousands of years. Yes, if you are in enemy territory and it happens to be summer or fall, take the free food, that’s obvious. And personally I think wives and women are superior in this regard to merchants for purposes of morale. But it’s certainly not “mad” to have a market, as the Anabasis or any Medieval history makes clear.

      • Jatt Arya says:

        Christian beliefs against bathing got them North America.

        • ten says:

          God awful. The shit eating retard even believes this sort of crap.

          He’s like feather indian twitter.

          Christian “beliefs against bathing” stemmed from bathhouses being aids infested gay whorehouses, which they incorrectly blamed on excessive bathing, a problem large enough to warrant suppression.

          Excessive bathing.

          Face washed every morning, hands every morning and before and after each meal, full body at least every saturday. At least.

          A general idea of dark age bathing patterns, for the poor. Among the rich, lavish bathing remained popular for ever, and was reintroduced broadly after the crusades.

          Your idiocy, ignorance and hatred of our people and our success will get you eaten by dogs.

      • Viking says:

        “Based on this”- did you see the part about taking the land and killing all the animals currently inhabiting it? Does that sound like a leftist decolonialist?

        It quite beloved but I give credit where due. Might more accurately blame Churchill and Roosevelt for killing all the whites. Certainly if nazis had run world past 75 years whites would not be about to go extinct

        As per (((Jesus))) worship it served us as long as insane altruism accrued to fellow (wait for it) -whites. And while it created a white nationalist hegemony “ Christendom” our success shrank the world and made Christianity morbid to us. This isn’t complex. Stop reflexively defending it like some neocuck thinking the Cold War is still on

        As per manifest destiny it required we acted like nazis or rather like any healthy animal
        The Indians still left are result of the extent of Christian poz. Or tortoise flipping we put them in Indian game parks where they reside as a genetic bank we might find useful one day or just entertaining we should reduce the numbers and put all the other races small in preserves and take away their west tech toys high we blew the easy opportunity to do right after we dealt the Indians

        No one said it was mad to have a market. It was said the market should have freedom and I said its freedom should be circumscribed it should not have freedom to gouge the army or to neglect the army
        We love us some capitalism because it serves us not because it is a beautiful machine that must not be defiled capitalism is robust and always survives monarchy commie tyrants theocracies it makes due only I. Recent west have Jews been allowed to subordinate people culture nation to capitalism and dummies like you bobble head assent. You ought to look at what Halliburton and co has cost our people in past twenty. Then consider if Halliburton and Jews didn’t actually create the wars as well as profiteer off them.
        Capitalism is a tool like a hammer. Not a deity.

        You don’t think very deeply

        • JanMartense says:

          Capitalism is a tool like a hammer. Not a deity.

          I actually agree with this. Read my comment about make-work further down for example. It’s an extremely useful tool but not infallible.

          However, it is incredibly difficult for me to take anything else you say seriously. For example, just now you said

          No one said it was mad to have a market.

          Whereas three days ago you literally said

          you can’t put your warriors lives and do the life of the nation in the hands of fucking capitalists are you mad man?

          That’s one of the most blatant, shameless self-contradictions I’ve ever read. Lots of people tell lies, but few are so obvious about it. Now you’re trying to hedge, “oh I only meant Jewish capitalism, not ALL capitalism,” despite not mentioning Jews once in that entire paragraph.

          You also blamed today’s demographic problems on the colonial empires, just like leftists who say Europe deserves what its getting now as a reparation to their past colonization. I don’t think you are a leftist but you share their position on this. Being an empire does not automatically cause decline.

          Certainly if nazis had run world past 75 years whites would not be about to go extinct

          TFR of Germany in 1890 under the Kaisers: 5.2 (which had remained steady for at least a century)
          Average TFR under Hitler: ~1.6-2.4 For most of the Nazi period, TFR wasn’t even above replacement. Pathetic.
          And no, it isn’t just a time period effect: Francoist Spain had steady TFR in the ~2.7-2.8 range into the 1970s.

          Monarchies are what would have kept the white race from”going extinct.” Especially Christian monarchies. Leftist new-world-order Utopians like Hitler are what has ruined it. I concede he is perhaps only far left instead of extreme left like today’s democrats and communists, or Weimar.

          Also:

          It quite beloved but I give credit where due

          lol. Maybe I don’t think deeply, or maybe I just can’t make sense of your gibberish most of the time.

          • Viking says:

            No contradiction hammer is not right tool for every job and don’t think Halliburton or be on Jews.
            Was pretty clear capitalism can only be counted on to profit by any means necessary.
            You bless we are the capitalist in question then the profit is not our interest the supposed interest is the reduced profit caused by a competing capitalist as you say a market
            As long as market is not selling to enemy for higher price. Selling inferior product to soldiers.. overcharging etc etc market good tool but of course markets will always try these things and worse wasps sold out to Jews for short term profit. Capitalists will sell out a nation. It’s what they do.
            You are blinded by neoco. Muh Cold War crap. You can have a market serve you Jewish. Capitalism is worse. Because destroying us is not even regrettable it’s a bonus to them. Bye trust me I never hedge I say it all but many lack ability of complexity. But true no time to explain all moldbergs mistakes. On a sentence ethnat is only way. But not enough. We must turn hbd on ourselves as well and elites must also be as was once the case pre Jew and Jefferson subordinated to the people culture nation.
            Being an empire does automatically cause decline it just doesn’t always happen immediately. But eventually it turns our men to faggots because they outsource fighting. It also is multiculturalism in an outnumbberered context. MS13 now has chapters in California police Dept and murder officers who don’t join or are white objectors.

            Still larping monarchy running dog for moldberg he’s laughing at you. Leftist Jefferson was correct in this much a good king hard to find one with good son almost never Merlin heard of. So meritocracy vast improvement over aristocracy. But you see how sharp the edge we whites walk becomes as we take civilization to its limits. Need I spell put meritocracy is not how would that fag land put it demotion?

            Bonus info. Not only turn hbd ruthlessly on ourselves but step back what’s all this about. Utopianism. This perfect machine like your beloved capitalism. But how’s evolution actually worked? Think man it’s random and slow and rarely sheds old code which hangs around for some opportunist to pwn. In short it’s absurd to think there is possible some system that will work its chaos we will always be playing catch up. The shame is we don’t learn basic lessons whites have been taught so many times empire is road to death. Just as surely as female autonomy and thinking Jews are kinda white.
            Whites like NRx gags are in love with ideas over volk this is dysgenic. Have ideas subordinate to volk nation and the culture that sustains them. Everything must be subordinated to the prime directive

            • Not Tom says:

              Was pretty clear capitalism can only be counted on to profit by any means necessary.

              Please state your definition of “capitalism” for the record. If it includes the word “capitalist”, the